black 202 efi

[Ed]

A good point is this probably opens options up to other carb set ups if you ever decide to remove the efi and go back to carbs.

you will never want to go back to carbs... trust me.

[NES304]

can I avoid butchering the fire wall by moving the motor forward and use a thermo fan and electric water pump to avoid the fan hitting the nose frame?

[Glenn 'Stinky' Stankevicius]

Probably not and you might upset the balance/handling of the car by moving so much weight forward.

[NES304]

why would I need to move the fire wall anyway?
Dont the red 202 or 186 conversions escape fire wall masacre

[SRVLIVES]

They do, but running triples or a VK manifold will need the firewall recessed.

See here,

[TorqueFC]

i dont think the firewall needs to be drastically recessed, pretty sure it was just the lip on the firewall needs to be ground down (removed!) on the passenger side. i know there is a  pic around here somewhere, ill have a look..

[TorqueFC]

fc fitted with injected red 6 with vk injection and a blower.





and the last one of harkos sedan firewall, this was fitted with a black efi 202. as you can see, its only the lip on the passenger side that has been modified..

[smithy]

hey nes, i will be running the VK manifold matched up to my 186 head, and have run into a few problems you will have to look at.

yes the firewall will need to be persuaded but only about 20-30 mm in, if you are still to paint the enginebay now is the time to do it. the lip needs to be ground back and a big hammer could push the firewall in enough. otherwise if you are handy with welder and grinder cut out a section and reces it. fortunately my car was set up with triples before i got it so the firewall is already back enough.
i have also been told that there might not be enough room for the standard fuel rail to fit. this was told to me by a reputable efi/. turbo specialist fitting this setup into a ek.

also i i had a trial fitting of the intake maifold the other night and found that the 1st and last exhaust collectors foul on the 1st and last intake runners, you will be able to get away with this if you are using the extractors from the VK and the 202 head. as i am using a 186 head with the mounting studs  in a different position to the 202  i am getting the 2 collectors angled down by around an inch to clear the runners.

this is by no means the last things you will have to change, as i am starting to find out but  with you using the black engine it should be easier. if you are going to use the ECU from a camira delco 808 get all the engine sensors aswell plus loom as i have been told there will be problems with the ecu getting correct data from the black sensors. also the standard VK throttle body aparently wont co-operate with the delco ecu

then you got to look at your fuel system.
a return line has to be fitted, your FC tank modified to accept the return line and a surge tank incorporated plus external pump, or use a tank out of a later model car running EFI, preferably with internal baffles, this may get away from using the surge tank.
this all a new learning curve for me too.

it will be worth it in the long run though.
dean

[NES304]

Nice bunch of bannana's hangin off the side there. looks good painted up too. I was really hoping to avoid the fire wall.....got  any more pics of the motor installed looking downward between the fire wall and inlet manifold/block? and one showing the gap between the radiator and fan?
there was one on here but it was blurry.
Cheers mate

[smithy]

there was one on here but it was blurry.

i think the one you were refering to was the one that harko supplied, this is the only one i have seen but it still gives you a good idea of the clearance required.
unfortunately i dont think you will get away without some sort of firewall modification, and as stinky said if you do move the motor too far forward you could upset the handling. the only real way you will see what is required is to trial fit the motor with engine mounts in the correct position for the 202 then fit the efi manifold, fuel rail and extractors. but you will find they will foul on the firewall, and im sure the RTA require some form of minimal clearance especially when something of this style is being fitted. remember that there will be some movement of the engine when running. when i get around to the final fitup i could take some pics for you but that wont be for a couple of weeks.

bite the bullet and give it a go
cheers
dean

[normd]

Hi Ya nes138
    This inlet manifold was specially made for my car so there were no "Mods" done to the firewall (rear carby tapered forward a little) , but they are a "very tight fit" on the 192 Red , I don't think they'd pass RTA .  I've got a standard waterpump & stock fan & radiator but not much room at the front & the motor misses the firewall by less than 10mm , you can just see this in the bottom pic .  If you've got the chance while the bay is empty , it might be worth "knocking it back" a bit 15mm + .   The car is reasonably balanced   &  used to corner pretty well , but then again it's on 10" slicks and VERY low .  
 (Please excuse the pic , was taken before the engine bay was cleaned up)





Norm  

[normd]

Couple of more pics showing a Red in the enginebay without modifying radiator or firewall.

Gap at fan to radiator about 10 mm



Gap between head/exrtactors to body less than 10 mm



No room for aircleaners here



If the EFI is any bigger than this , ya gotta get "the Harko Adjuster" (angle grinder)  out  

( Guys used to mount a "chain" with a turnbuckle between rear of the block to the body to stop putting the fan through the radiator under braking )

Geesh , I gotta clean that engine bay up again   :-/ , Haven't touched it since Nov  12 mths ago .....

  Norm  

[nicko]

lol,ya gotta love that.
the" HARKO ADJUSTER."

[NES304]

Norm, Cheers for the photos.
If only my ex was like that. The EFI bunch O bannanas apparently is larger. all I want is to move it around while I do the body rubbers and chrome. I found a VN Commodore in the trading post "running and just out of rego, no rust" for two hundred quills. I was thinking about parking that in the driveway and just transfering the whole lot across to the FC including diff wiper motor brake booster wire hearness seat belts fuel tank fuel pump etc, At least (I'm told) theres no bay modification (just crossmember). At least while there's nothing in the engine bay I can paint it up to look really neat, just like yours heh heh. Just jokes, at least it gives me a really good idea of what i'm up against

[NES304]

Hey Bloke (Smithy / Dean) caught your thread on kalmaker and it seems you are having a hell of a time ironing out problems with this system. Makes me want to abandon the whole thing and go directly to V6. Probably have a whole other set of problems there too...

[Ed]

Smithy,

Cruised in on kalmaker as well and had a little read.

sensors.

You will need a
MAP (manifold air pressure) mount this in engine bay.
MAT (mainfold air temp) mount in air cleaner.
CTS (coolant temp sensor) you may need to tap into your coolant passage? Luckily I had 2 sender holes in my motor.

Hooter has suggested your distributor issues.

I can provide you with all the wiring diagrams you need to make it happen, if you would like.  the Holden book is recommended tho as you can diagnose all the fault codes properly.

also stick with the VN throttle body, just make an adaptor to suit.

VL had external pumps as did early VN.

you do not need a surge tank, I happened to put one in.. don't know why as the wagon corners like a barge anyway.

to make a return line weld on a an earls steel fitting to the tank and use the appropriate hose end to suit.

Nes,
Im not so sure if a V6 conversion is easier than sorting out EFI on a red.. lol

just be analytical in your approach.

HTH

Ed

[smithy]

cheers ed, i would be interested in the wiring diagrams. if you could email them to my work address i can print em up

turns out now that i cant run the vk manifold on the red head so ive managed to arrange a swap for a twelve port. pitty the red head is a stage 3 yella terra, so that will fix 1 problem. thinking about cutting the boot up and trying to fit a VS tank in, as i said im thinking?

sourcing the camira engine sensors and loom at the moment, mainfold is partly polished and looking real purty, im applying the harko 20 minute rule on that.
the only thing that has me sorta confussed at the moment is by what hooter meant by "locking off the distributor and vacuum"
but apart from that its sorta falling into place, all be it slowly. :-/ .


nes, i am pretty sure you will run into more dramas and a lot more $$$ trying to fit the V6 than fitting up the 202
cheers
dean

[Ed]

Dean,

will need to snail mail you the diagrams, basically it is just the pin outputs of the 808 to the applicable sensor.

it is the tip of the iceberg really, the book has heaps of info.

Cheers

Ed

[blacky]

 Smithy -  My V6 EK has a VR fuel tank in it , fits pretty neatly. Just need to take a bit off the flange where the tank is joined so the spring hangers dont hit it.
 I have seen an FB with an XB Frod fuel tank in it , that was a good swap , fits well and your spare wheel sits down into it.
P.S. I wouldnt mind a set of those diagrams myself .

[NES304]

Guys,
      my ultimit goal was/is to have the V6 as a final product. the free 202 was a means to be able to drive the car around, or it will kill me to see it sit there after its painted and do nothing. Thats why I said I might cut to the V6......save two sets of stuffing arounds