black 202 efi

[NES304]

Hi all, Just scored a black 202 efi from VK Calais for free. it runs and comes with trimatic.
Any one used one of these? I was wondering if they're any good and what their bad points are? and can i run the 3 speed colum behind it?

[Blown_FC]

I have not used one, but in principle they are not too dis-similar to a RED 202.

Red's were 202 badged, Blue's and Blacks were badged as 3300...in effect the same style of motor, but each one an improvement over the last.
Blacks were the last OLD 6 motors made, before they went to the RB30 Nissan Motor in the VL and the subsequent Buick based motors we see today.

As far as I know, the Black motors were the first and last motors to run a Holden Injection system.  Wouldn;t say they were the most advanced injection systems around, but they were the first on a commodore, and the are pretty basic, and quite a few guys use these on there rebuilds.

I have a trimatic and YES, I have / had it on the column, but being on a black motor, chances are your trimatic is the later model with the linkages on the passenger side of the box, so I'm not sure about linking it to your column, as my trimatic is the earlier type, with the linkages on the drivers side.

Can't comment too much on the performance of black motors, other than to pass on 2 versions of rumours I've heard.

One is that the Black motor was the worst they made, the other is they are great !

You will have to ask someone more mechanically minded than me, but one thing I do know, is that in a Street Machine artical from back in the day, a well known Motor builder said that RED motors were the best, but the cranks were crap......get a crank out of a Blue / Black motor, as the red motor crank has a torsional vibration.   The black motor cranks also have the vibration, but it's further up the rev range where you won;t ever get to any way !

That's about as much as I can say.....hope you find all the answers you are looking for, and from someone more qualified than me.

CHeers

mark

[tim59fc]

I run a black 202 with trimatic column shifter - however not EFI.

This link may be of assistance though-:

http://www.fefcholden.org.au/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=howto;action=display;num=1115997892;start=

Cheers
Tim

[HARKO]

Ive been running an injected black 202 in an FC with a supra 5 speed and cant rave enough ,It gets better fuel economy than my V6 commodore ,has heaps of power and sounds awesome.
Id recomend doing it very highly from my experiance but Id put the injection on top ,I had a blue 202 in a commodore years ago and it had no power at all.
I also had a VK wagon here for a while and only drove it about 150 klms and it felt much the same way.

Aparently Pirtek sell the plugs for the non EFI head to adapt the injection but cost a packet ,In my opinion I would buy the head with the injection already attatched and swap it straight over.

The lip on your passenger side of the firewall will need about 25 mm of persuasion to clear the bunch o bananas

[smithy]

hey harko,  was going to send you a pm re this, would it be possible to get some pics of the injector setup you mentioned, this post has just re-sparked my curiosity in a efi setup.
it looks like someone has previosly 'persuaded' my fire wall possibly for triples.

cheers
dean

[NES304]

thanks guys.
any other photos or tips?

[blacky]

 I did a bit of research on these motors a while back and was told the best thing to do with them was toss the bosch ecu and fit a delco unit out of a JE Camira .  
There is a mob called Kalmaker who are the ones you need to speak to regarding this , the bloke I spoke to was very helpful over the phone. I think it was ED from this forum who put me onto this mob , he had plenty of helpful info about fuel injection too - may be worth your while sending him a PM.
Another thing I have heard is that the EFI black motor head was the best head Holden produced in terms of efficiency , so if nothing else you picked up a good head !

[SRVLIVES]

http://www.kalmaker.com.au

and specifically

http://kalmaker.hotrodhandbooks.com.au/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=102&highlight=

[NES304]

blacky, thanks
I always love picking up a good head

[Ed]

hi guys,

I'm hardly a guru on EFI, but I certainly am keen on the Delco 808 set up.

After retro-fitting the Delco set up to a Red 308 with aftermarket induction. It’s not that difficult, the beauty of aftermarket bits are somebody has usually sorted out most bugs already.

The subject has been discussed previously but I’m not sure where to find it now.

In any case I reckon a really horn EFI set up can be made using lots of factory bits and pieces, thus retaining things like TPS on the Throttle bodies (TB) etc.  The MAP system is good because you could adapt TB’s from a variety of cars including the astra, camira, VN etc .

Imagine twin TB’s on a custom intake manifold, running great things like knock sensors to retard the timing should detontation occur.

Not to mention the ability to trace faults thru the system by using the ALDL link, using something as simple as.. wait for it… a paperclip!

As for cost. I bought a spare ECU last week.. $35.  A knock sensor. $30.
So the entire set up wont set you back a huge amount anyway.

You will need a wiring book, and be prepared to read and digest the theories behind principle of operation and set ups… also spend the time to wire it up.

Once I finish my current project I figure a nice 202 with an injected system may be on the cards!

I personally wont go back to carbs.

Cheers

Ed

[smithy]

sounds like some stuff to occupy the dreamtime mate, might just have to make friends with some fabricators, or the alternative if you have some serious $$$ check this out from jzed (7 second holden 6 )

http://www.jzedholden6.com.au/jzedgallery/gallery.asp?action=browse&categoryid=25&whichpage=1

now this setup would look sweet!
oh to dream :-/

dean

[fccool59]

I tried to get the best of everything for my 179, now it has a crank, rods and head from a black efi motor.
I think the black efi had simular power to the xu1, it even has a sportier cam than the carb motor, I have also heard the computer is a let down, other thing is all the bits and peices are getting old and deteriorating.
there are guys who do these up on some of the commodore forums, I had one in a vk and thought it was better than the vr I had before but one day it didnt start so I bought a $600 ford LTD to get me around, now I never break down unless the ford fans at work are looking and I fake a break down.

[NES304]

so are there any real drama's with this conversion or anything much different between converting an efi 202 or a red 186?

[RET]

Only that in NSW going over 191 cubes means further engineering certification and mods than 161-186.  Not sure about Qld.

cheers
RET

[NES304]

Hey Bloke (HARKO)
you got any pics of your efi set up in the FC?
what fuel pump did you use?
Did you need anything spaecial for the transport blokes?

[NES304]

does any one know what these things are worth ?(seeing mines free I wouldn't mind knowing)

[blacky]

 Not a hell of a lot - I picked up a complete motor with computer , exhaust manifold , etc for a carton and a complete VK with one in it for $250.

[TorqueFC]

i got given a black efi for nothing-heard it running in the vk.  they are not a bad motor, once you remove all the bugs (like what leon was talking about) computer etc..

[NES304]

any one got pics or confirm if I need to bash the fire wall a bit?

[fccool59]

yes, you have to move the fire wall in aswell as maybe cut the seem next to the engine recess in the firewall, if I get a chance before anyone else gets a pic up, I will put one up.
A good point is this probably opens options up to other carb set ups if you ever decide to remove the efi and go back to carbs.