Grey Motor info

[GreyFC]

Well all I can say is every single time I see a grey for sale I ask for pics of Tue block.  I'll either have a very large collection of.images and the myth will remain or I'll find one and no one will believe me haha.  ( seriously I ask each time I see an add )

[detective]

The thing that I keep coming back to is if there never was a Candian block then where did the myth start form?

Someone sent me Dons number by SMS today so I might give him a bell hear his side aswell.

...Hi again GreyFc  ..  this is the guts of the problem....where did the myth start from....

...to me, hopefully this is the start to the end of the whole convoluted story...and i reckon a solution is at hand whereby the Nasco parts people have a lot to answer for...

...i will relay two examples of innocent parts counter people perpetuating a myth in a quite accidental fashion...one involves the FX (48-215) Holden and the other is to do with the Aussie Atkinson trucks of all things....

...i'm pretty sure the ''FX'' moniker has been well documented as being the new front end with telescopic shock absorbers...tha Atkinson connection is no less intriguing...

...we had the plastic cab Atkinson trucks produced in Australia from 1966...a uniquely Aussie invention that was well loved by many truck operators. These things were produced up until about 1980 as the Mk 1, 2 and 3 when all of a sudden the steel cab 4870 series model International style Atkinson became the norm...

...all of a sudden you had to quote the model number, and not the mark, to the parts people because the new model made it hard for the spare parts guys to know EXACTLY what Atkinson you were talking about....the myth being there were never any Mk 1, 2 or 3 Atkinsons. Years later these early Mk numbers are being somewhat disregarded as being bunkum because the model numbers are so much more informative....

...my suspicion is that the Nasco parts people had to differentiate between the Lucas equipped greys and the Delco Remy equipped ones...not forgetting there was only one model of Holden at the time in mid 1953, and now there was a new model with a different prefix coming through in the form of the ''FJ'' very soon.......

... we all know that the Delco equipment was produced by ''The McKinnon Industries Limited....... Canada'' etc. etc......plain to see on every Delco distributor, starter, regulator and generator up to engine number (approx) 104994...about middle 1953.......from here it's a short step for these blokes at the counter to be discussing the Canadian equipped earlies as averse to the British or locally equipped ones...it's not to hard to see the whole thing being abbreviated as time went on....especially considering this was only roughly four or five years after normal usage of these cars in the general publics' hands...

....to me, i s'pose the next ripping part of the yarn will be to find out when the first usage of the term ''Canadian Block'' came into being in print form from way back in the day....may have to check out my old Aussie hot rod magazines from way back to 1966!.....cheers fellas

[RET]

I have heard the theory that "Canadian" relates to "Delco-Remy" accessories before, and it's more believable than most others. The mythical "Canadian" is probably a conflation of the early=better block story with the type of electrical accessories.

There's a fair chance that when someone triumphantly turns up a "Made in Canada" emblazoned on some engine, it will be on the generator or starter, not the block itself.

Nice work, detective. Appreciate your input.

cheers
RET

[Harv]

G'day Detective,

Interesting (and rather cool) theory on the McKinnon Industries/Delco Remy link to the Canadian block myth. The 327 Chev motor I have in my EK wagon was made by McKinnon at their St Catherines, Ontario plant. This may be as close as we get to ever seeing a Canadian block in an early Holden 


Cheers,
Harv (appreciator of early Holden history)

[detective]

...g'day Harv  .. i think i should've been mentioning Bosch rather than Lucas for the ancillaries, as from what i understand the Lucas stuff only came along later on after the FJ....except the headlights ?

[fe350chev]

Yeah my 327 is same. They came in kit form and assembled here. There was also Studebakers that had the four barrel manifold (same as hk monaro monaro), crappy open chamber heads and the good steel crank. I'm sure that's how someone got their wires crossed. There's a comprehensive website and no mention. It was easier to Start urban legends in those days.

[GreyFC]

....to me, i s'pose the next ripping part of the yarn will be to find out when the first usage of the term ''Canadian Block'' came into being in print form from way back in the day....may have to check out my old Aussie hot rod magazines from way back to 1966!.....cheers fellas

See what you can see.  I have boxes of old mags and most of the grey articles I have already scanned in.  Have not come accross anything to proove/disprove  However... this article seams to state that Malcome has a Candadian block.  I will call him today and ask as when ever we chat I forgot to ask  http://www.thegreymotor.com/2014/08/performace-holden-grey-motor-build.html

[fe350chev]

It really seems to have started in the 60's in Canberra. Advertising for them was mainly confined to there. It's not the first time that urban legends came out of Canberra lol.

They have their own myths over there.
http://jalopnik.com/358981/left-hand-drive-vauxhall-velox-boggles-canadian-minds

Perpetuated in 78 in Canberra with advert for "2" Canadian blocks! Gee. I wonder how much more ppl paid for them.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/110899791?searchTerm=%22canadian%20block%22%20grey%20holden&searchLimits=

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/122120220?searchTerm=%22canadian%20block%22%20%22grey%2 0motor%22&searchLimits=l-category=Advertising

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/131783593?searchTerm=canadian%20holden%20grey&searchLimits=l-category=Advertising|||l-availability=y|||l-australian=y

[Dr_Terry]

...i'm pretty sure the ''FX'' moniker has been well documented as being the new front end with telescopic shock absorbers...

Hi detective, welcome aboard.

The origin of the FX moniker is as intriguing as the Canadian block myth.

I'm now on the 'wrong side' of 60 years of age & I clearly remember the use of the term FX in Repco type parts catalogues as early as the mid to late 1960s.

We were always told that its origin was in used car newspaper classified adverts. FX was a convenient abbreviation for all pre-FJ models. Up to FJ times, used Holdens were advertised variously as 1949, 1951 or whatever. Apparently FX was neater (read cheaper) because the classified charged by the character number. (F = Holden series & X = unknown).

I hadn't heard of the FX (front x-member) theory until very recent times. I've not seen any substantial evidence (in print) of either theory, so therefore don't stand behind either version 100%, but it is interesting to hear how myths develop in totally different ways in different localities

Dr Terry

[RET]

Hi Dr_Terry,

I spoke to Don Loffler about this a couple of years ago, and he is 100% convinced the name originates from the architectural drawings for the new front crossmember introduced late in the 48-215's run. The terminology appears on the drawings (which he has copies of, or has at least personally sighted - they might be stored at Adelaide Library?). These clearly predate the introduction of the FJ, and any consequential need to distinguish between models, by Repco, in classified ads or anywhere outside GM-H.

I'm sold.

cheers
RET

[GreyFC]

[Dr_Terry]

Hi Dr_Terry,

I spoke to Don Loffler about this a couple of years ago, and he is 100% convinced the name originates from the architectural drawings for the new front crossmember introduced late in the 48-215's run. The terminology appears on the drawings (which he has copies of, or has at least personally sighted - they might be stored at Adelaide Library?). These clearly predate the introduction of the FJ, and any consequential need to distinguish between models, by Repco, in classified ads or anywhere outside GM-H.

I'm sold.

cheers
RET

Hi RET.

Yes, I too have spoken to Don on this topic on several occasions, however my point is, while the used car advert & the various parts catalogues have been in the public domain for decades, the front x-member drawing only came to light in very recent times.

How did it grow from a presumedly, a secret in-house design document (front x-member) to common industry usage.

As I said, I'm not 'sold' 100% on either version.

Dr Terry

[detective]

...Hi all  ..  and thanks for the welcome Dr Terry....i guess the whole idea of a so called Canadian Block can be an isolated and very parochial thing when you look at the issue in a geographical sense....

...who knows?...the moniker may have originated in Tasmania or Western Australia when after a few years down the track there were far fewer of these Delco equipped engines to be seen, and were automatically seen as something ''special'' ??...

....i keep harking back to the spare parts blokes and the way they adapt a turn of phrase for their colleagues to help identify something that would assist them ''in house''....next thing you know all the blokes at say Nasco in Melbourne have found themselves a neat fit to identify these earliest of engines/cars and beyond that the word gets out...

...i know i'm just shootin' the breeze, but to me it makes an awful lot of sense....cheers fellas

[Harv]

....i keep harking back to the spare parts blokes and the way they adapt a turn of phrase for their colleagues to help identify something that would assist them ''in house''....next thing you know all the blokes at say Nasco in Melbourne have found themselves a neat fit to identify these earliest of engines/cars and beyond that the word gets out...

We see the same thing (turn of phrase becoming common-usage and the original meaning lost) happening now via eBay... everything Holden-derived is either NASCO, NOS or from a monaro  .

Cheers,
Harv

[Dr_Terry]

...Hi all  ..  and thanks for the welcome Dr Terry....i guess the whole idea of a so called Canadian Block can be an isolated and very parochial thing when you look at the issue in a geographical sense....

How true. I think that it's due in part, to the Australian 'Cultural Cringe', where many are of the belief that anything imported is better in some way than something produced locally. Our auto industry was in its infancy in the early 50s & many refused to believe than we could have produced something as good as the FX Holden back then, some parts just had to be imported, didn't they ?? 

...who knows?...the moniker may have originated in Tasmania or Western Australia when after a few years down the track there were far fewer of these Delco equipped engines to be seen, and were automatically seen as something ''special'' ??...

The funny part is, that while these earlier 'thicker-walled' blocks were sought after for racing purposes, the extra wall thickness was a handicap in day-to-day usage for the average driver.

Dr Terry.

[fcwrangler]

For my 2 bobs worth, I feel the Canadian block is a misnomer apart from hearsay there appears to be no tangible proof as to it's existence. On the subject of the "FX", many of my older friends and I have long touted the source of it's origin cam from a spare parts person from a dealership( not known) became frustrated with people buying parts for the FJ only to find they would not fit and then return them and ask why?. Upon questioning the owner it was found that most of them had in fact owned 48/215s, so the FX tag was given to anything before the FJ.
Regards, Jim

[detective]

...i s'pose you have to look at this type of scenario at the spare parts counter early in 1954....

.....''Hi mate...i need some parts for my Holden''...

.....''yeah mate.. what year is she?''...

.....''1953 mate''.


.....the Holden in question could've been a fairly new FJ.. an interim (air ride) late 1953 FX.. an early 1953 FX with the older suspension...or even a very late 1952 FX first registered in 1953...possibly still with the Delco Remy stuff !!...

.....the average motorist in them days never referred to their Holden by its model, so as can be seen there would have been a degree of confusion in that late 1953-early/mid 1954 era. Beyond that it really wasn't an issue, as they all came to be known by their model designation as time went by ...but i s'pose something had to be hastily done at that point in time......

[Dr_Terry]

There are probably a few guys out there who are more adept at searching the web than I. Give this a try.

I was talking to a guy last night who told me that the earliest usage of the term 'FX' in print is around 1955 -1956 in Melbourne used car classifieds by the Holden dealer Kevin Dennis.

If newspaper web searches are your thing, somebody may uncover something more than just here-say on this subject.

Dr Terry

[fe350chev]

Hi all. I'm enjoying learning more about the cultural aspect of the industry being a fairly young bloke. The same thing happened with the "250 2v" head on xa and xb falcons. it did exist for sure but many ppl called all sorts of home made jobbies the same thing when actually they were home made mods like sumps etc. But it helped sell for higher price.

[fe350chev]

I modified this post. The Repco parts book of 1957 is another souce of original use of the fx prefix. Can anyone provide evidence of this?