Grey Motor info

[Ray Bell]

No 2 Mayvic Street, wasn't it?

And Ken Waggott was in Canterbury Road at Belmore, right?

Even further from Yagoona!

My memory of their locations, however, only goes back to the mid-sixties.

Thanks RET, that's great.

[MalFE]

Back in the fifties I served my time with Don Mackay who was a very well known speedway car owner. At the time Ray Revell and Andy McGavin were driving Don's cars.
We always sourced early numbered blocks for our speedway cars and Don would bore them out to 3 1/4 inches and I don't remember having to throw away any blocks.
In the late fifties I purchased a very early engine with a four digit engine number starting with 6 which I intended to fit in my FE but it is still in my shed.
Mal.

[Ray Bell]

Mal, that's interesting...

It would be good to check that block out with a sonic tester. My nephew has a block at his workshop that's been bored to the same and he's sonic tested that one and found it to be sound. He had a buyer for it but they've not come back.

[MalFE]

Hi Ray,
My block hasn't been bored, still 3 inches plus wear also crank appears to have standard size slipper bearings.
Mal

[Ray Bell]

Shhhh!

You don't want all the rabids on here chasing after it, do you?

[MalFE]

I would sell if offered a fair price.

Mal.

[GreyFC]

In the past week I have had confirmation that they had a Canadian block and it actually had "Made in Canada" cast into it.

The story goes that it was cast in Detroit and shipped to Aus via Canada with 149 other blocks to avoid customs tax.

I'm inclined to believe this man and I will be visiting him shortly to hear more.

I was the biggest skeptic the Canadian block until now.

The legend continues.

[Ray Bell]

Hmmm...

As people who have seen the Muskegon blocks have never mentioned this, I would initially suspect that the 'Made in Canada' part of the story applies to the logo.

[GreyFC]

Not sure just keeping the legend aline'  Here is the exact comment

 I beg to differ on the blocks at least , and therefore maybe the cranks.Speaking to Ian Shugg today he believes that the first 200 blocks were made in Canada,so why were the cranks not made in Germany given that the Grey is a German Opel (or GM Germany ) design. I certainly had the only Canadian block I have ever seen in the early 70's and it had cast in it "Made in Canada",somebody had milled the caps and bolted strongbacks on and as a junior engineer I didnt think the caps would be strong enough and I didnt have enough money for steel caps and a line bore and after tripping over it for 5 years and offering it to all and sundry (most of who agreed about the caps) it went to the tip on a clean up day!! Pity I never took any photos of that cast in script ,but it was certainly there!!

[Ray Bell]

There's no 'Made in Canada' on this one...



...and it's a genuine imported block with the CWC logo on it.

[GreyFC]

Who's is that one?  Is it still around to take more photos?

I can ask exactly where the "Made in Canada" was on the block see what he says.

I want to believe....

[Ray Bell]

That photo is of the engine in the prototype car... go back a couple of pages for all the pics...

As for Germany and Opel, I don't think the Holden engine was anything like their stuff. A little more like the Vauxhall, but even then it was more like a baby Chev.

And what was Germany's production capacity like in 1946/7 after their factories had been being bombed for all those years?

[mcl1959]

Look familiar - this is a forties Chev engine. Clearly where the Holden grey came from

Ken


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[GreyFC]

Opel

[mcl1959]

Looks to be very similar if not the same engine exactly. The holden engine has some obvious departures from this design but is from the same family

Ken

[RET]

I've been following this thread on Facebook as well as here, and I'm with Ray Bell - I just cannot see how Opel could have been in any position to produce engines or components in any quantity for some far-flung GM outpost immediately following the war. Or why. It just makes no sense. I think it's more likely that the Opel engine is based on the same design as the Chev engine, and it's the ancestor of both the Opel and the grey.

But I get into enough arguments on Facebook without starting one on mythical Canadian Blocks

cheers
RET

[RET]

If you have a read of the Wikipedia page on Opel, it's pretty clear this theory must be bunkum.

A few things worth noting:
1. Opel were taken over by GM in 1929, the same time as Holden.
2. They were seized by the German government "shortly after the war began", and almost certainly by 1942.
3. Opel were manufacturing engine parts for German bombers and got themselves bombed to oblivion by the Allies. In 1945 they produced no vehicles at all.
4. Half their manufacturing capacity was basically stolen by the Russians, by virtue of one of their factories being within the Russian controlled area.
5. It wasn't until July 1946 that the first Opel Blitz rolled out of the rebuilt Rüsselsheim factory.
6. GM did not resume control of Opel until 1 Nov 1948.

I realise this thread is conflating the history of Canadian and German GM engines, but there's just no way that any part of the Holden engine came from Germany.
And in my opinion, not from Canada either.

[old-blu]

 Very interesting reading on a subject full of conjecture!.  Here's one for the purists. I have in my collection, a NOS FB......EH Clock.  It was in a cardboard box with MADE IN BELGIUM, stamped on it. Just pondering where the BOSCH components on the greys originated?  old-blu

[RET]

As I understand it, early Holden grey motors had Lucas or Delco-Remy electrical components. Use of Bosch parts came a fair bit later.

but there's just no way that any part of the Holden engine came from Germany.

But perhaps I should have said "Opel", rather than "Germany".

[Professor Grey]

Hi to all contributors to this thread.

Here is a bit more trivia to consider.
It is very true that the Holden grey bears more than a passing resemblance to the 40's Chevs and Opels (apart from the obvious, such as position of the distributor), and this just serves to show that GM has always been a world player.
...BUT... I have never seen a Holden type oil filler cap on a Chev.(although I'm not infallible)
Yet here we see them on a 1939 Opel Kapitan and wartime/post-war Opel Blitzes.





Verrry interesting.....

Also, the CWC grey blocks were cast by Campbell, Wyant, and Cannon Foundry Company, Muskegon, Michigan, USA, about 150 miles from Detroit.