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Author Topic: Found Object  (Read 55576 times)
ardiesse
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« Reply #380 on: April 06, 2021, 09:29:25 AM »
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Blacky,

I thought the jacking points came in left and right side, although Clay says they're the same.
Clay, you can look it up in the master parts catalogue.

I'll still go with a driver's side, if available.

Rob
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mcl1959
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« Reply #381 on: April 06, 2021, 12:00:57 PM »
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Vern every engineer Iíve dealt with is happy to accept internal seat belt mounts as long as they are well photographed. That is
A pic with ruler to show dimensions, radii etc of the plate and the nut.
A pic of the B pillar holes showing bolt position and weld through holes.
A pic of the plate in position with no welding done yet.
A pic of the plate after welding
Etc.
You can never take too many pics

Ken
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Errol62
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« Reply #382 on: April 06, 2021, 01:21:15 PM »
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In my ute was able to drill bolt hole and get hand in back of b pillar for top mount. Screwed tight then drilled and pop rivetted. Bottom mount could have gone in floor but b pillar tidier. Drilled bolt hole, cut above and down just enough to bend snd slip in plate and catch thread on bolt. Tightened up the enclosed hole, drilled and plug welded plate through pillar inner skin. Simples Cool

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« Reply #383 on: April 06, 2021, 09:58:41 PM »
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 Unfortunately I don't have any good ones here Rob, its a shame you didn't need them a couple of months ago , i am certain there was a pair on the EK that sat upside down in the bush for many years, the bulk of all the normally rusty stuff on that ended up in Canberra for Brett's ute project, but being a ute those bits wouldn't have been required and are now on their way to china .......  Sad
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« Reply #384 on: April 06, 2021, 10:06:33 PM »
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They are a mud trap and generally rusted through. Which is real handy when using scissor jack.


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ardiesse
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« Reply #385 on: April 18, 2021, 08:13:01 PM »
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Where was I?

Oh yes, driver's side B-pillar bottom.

After spending a couple of weekends mulling over what to do, I decided on a course of action -



Brace the B-pillar in position and then slice clean through the diseased bit at the bottom (not shown).

The "floor" of the B-pillar is a raised section of the outer sill.  And of course, in this car, it's partially rusted away.  But it sits flat on top of the internal sill reinforcement, which I have repaired.  So in I went with the angle grinder, and cut the B-pillar's "floor" away.  And it fell out.  That's a good thing.  It has an internal return, which the B-pillar internal panel and the floor pan are welded to.  The remains of the Rare Spares no. 1 body crossmember section kept giving, and I made a repair section from it.  It's just about ready to graft in, but the sun made as if to set on me.

Rob
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« Reply #386 on: April 25, 2021, 12:46:03 PM »
+1

Had a bit of a think during the week -

The driver's side B-pillar's open at the bottom.  This would be an ideal time to install seat belt anchorages.  But if you follow the rules exactly, modifications to or installation of seat belt anchorages require an engineer's certification.

There's a licensed restraint fitting station down the road from work.  So I went and talked to them.

If I was fitting lap-only belts, no problem, because the anchorages are visible from under the car.  But because I'm installing mounts inside the B-pillars, that's a problem.  And also, if the car was still registered, I could do pretty much as I pleased.  The hurdle arises because I have to get the car blue-slipped.

There's no way around it.  I have now engaged an engineer to certify the installation.

No more work on the B-pillar for a while.  Instead -  the jacking point.  Just for a lark, I took it into work and let loose with Mister Sand-Blast.



There are many more holes than I had imagined.  At the last car club meeting, one of the guys suggested I "just" fabricate a new one.  "You can make it out of three pieces of sheet metal and weld them together."

Long, hard look at the jacking point.  Apart from the folded returns, the sides are flat, and the bottom can be bent up easily.  So I made a jig out of wood.  Not for shaping, just as a fitting template.



And then, three paper patterns - one for each side, and one for the bottom.  The offcuts rack in the sheet-metal works provided a piece of 2 mm cold-rolled sheet.



Now to make it happen . . .

Rob
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« Reply #387 on: April 25, 2021, 08:02:56 PM »
+1

It almost happened.

The sun went down before I got out with the welder, but the three pieces are in place, ready to glue together.



(There is a little more work to do, like using some pipe and a towball to make the "dimple" . . .)

Rob
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« Reply #388 on: April 25, 2021, 09:15:28 PM »
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Nice work Rob. Iíll take a pair when you go in to mass production, so I can use a scissor jack on the ute. 😜


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ardiesse
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« Reply #389 on: May 02, 2021, 02:21:07 PM »
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When I mentioned to the engineer that the car was a bare shell on rotisserie, he said I'd need to install a front seat, temporarily, so he could fix the location of the upper seat belt anchorage on the B-pillar.  I made a counter-offer: I have an exactly similar FC sedan; could he use that one as a "prototype" for measurements?  This was OK, so I drove my "other" FC out to him during the week.  The engineer gave me a set of dimensions, starting from the front seat cushion at a reference point, upwards a certain distance, then projected horizontally onto the B-pillar.

Today I measured and marked up my "other" FC, found the correct position, measured downwards from the headlining retainer, and transferred that dimension to "Found Object".  Then I drilled the B-pillars for the seat belt bolt and two plug-welds:



Then I de-burred the holes, and fed a guide-wire down the hole in the roof rail until it came out the bottom of the driver's side B-pillar.

Now or never.  I attached the anchor plate to the guide wire, and with the shell tipped over to the right, pulled the anchor plate up the B-pillar until it cleared the check strap mount.  Then I tipped the shell back upright, and drew on the wire further until I could see the anchor plate through the holes.  I needed to make the shell level fore-and-aft so the threaded hole lined, up, and after some work with a centre-punch through the hole, picked up the nut with a 7/16" UNF bolt.  Before tightening the bolt, I pulled the guide-wire out, then centred the anchor plate; and only then tightened the bolt to hold the anchor plate in place.



That's a relief.

The passenger's side B-pillar will be more difficult.  It doesn't have the hole in the roof rail*, and I'll need to open it up at the bottom to admit the anchor plates . . . lots of spot welds to drill there.

And the engineer has told me not to close up the B-pillars until he has inspected the installation from the inside of the pillars.

Rob

* Question for Ken:  Would the hole in the roof rail above the driver's side B-pillar be there to feed a wire down for a pillar courtesy light, like what Business models used to have?
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« Reply #390 on: May 02, 2021, 04:07:39 PM »
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Yes, I think youíre right. Otherwise impossible to install the wiring for the switch.

Ken
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ardiesse
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« Reply #391 on: May 02, 2021, 04:24:44 PM »
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Ten minutes of setting up the welder, and thirty seconds of welding: the seat belt anchor plate is plug-welded.

And while I had the welder out, I zipped up the seams of the jacking point:



Rob

(I might just be able to drill a 1/4" dia hole in the roof rail on top of the passenger's side B-pillar to let a guide-wire down.  Would be a great help if I could, but may require a right-angle drive for the drill.)
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« Reply #392 on: May 03, 2021, 05:34:01 PM »
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Rob, seems like a lot of trouble to run a guide wire down, what about cutting a slot in the B pillar under where the rubber goes. Attach a piece of stiff wire to the plate and insert it that way?
Just a thought.

Ken
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ardiesse
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« Reply #393 on: May 09, 2021, 03:09:52 PM »
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Passenger's side B-pillar.

I drilled about six inches of spot welds on the lower part of the B-pillar, and then cut through the inside skin at the bottom of the pillar.  It didn't really want to bend inwards, so I drilled out another half-dozen spot welds.  I could now "spring" the inner skin inwards enough to get a seat belt anchor plate inside.  (Note chisel performing this important task.)



But first:  the guide-wire.  I drilled a hole in the roof rail, and then fed the guide-wire down.  It took a few attempts to thread it down behind the check strap mount, then I could hook it out of the pillar.  I attached the anchor plate to the wire, worked it into the pillar, then lifted it up inside the pillar, tilting the body shell as I went.  Drew the anchor plate into place, and it had turned around the wrong way - nut facing inwards.  I had to tilt the shell over a bit, turn the guide wire half a turn, then tilt the shell back.  Then I could pick the anchor plate up with a 7/16" UNF bolt, disengage the guide-wire, tighten the bolt, and weld the anchor plate in place.

The lower anchor plate was almost as much of a fiddle, because I was using a steel rule and a screwdriver to position it inside the pillar until I could pick the nut up with a bolt.  But it lined up, and here it is, welded in place:



I can't really do anything more until I get the engineer to inspect the anchor plate installation inside the B-pillars.  The anchor plates on the transmission tunnel will have to wait until I've replaced the rear floor pans.

Rob
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« Reply #394 on: May 09, 2021, 08:31:16 PM »
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Gee a lot of effort Rob. You have to leave the b pillar open for the eng to view? I just drilled hole, then cut through panel above and sides a bit, then bent open and slid it in, catching it on bolt, tighten up, straighten panel and stitch shut, also resulting in tacking the plate to the back of the panel. Bit of grind and bog, done.


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ardiesse
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« Reply #395 on: May 09, 2021, 10:44:33 PM »
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Yes.  On all counts.  The engineer needs to put a snake camera up the inside of the B-pillar.  You could probably gain access through the rear door check strap slot, but instructions were to leave the pillars open at the bottom.

Rob
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« Reply #396 on: May 10, 2021, 08:16:31 AM »
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I found out the hard way about that borescope (same engineer). The gentleman who did my bodywork did a great job fabricating C-pillar plates in my wagon. Lots of photos, and a tracing of the shape. Come inspection time (with the car painted), the borescope came out. The plates were made from 6mm steel plate, and had been tapped 7/16UNF. Engineer was not happy with the drill-and-tap approach, as the 6mm thread depth is less than a 7/16UNF nut (9.8mm). Had to fit nuts behind the plate, and make them captive. The EK wagon C-pillars are open at the bottom, but clash with the wheel arch. Took a good full day of gymnastics with bent wire to get them in there.

Cheers,
Harv
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ardiesse
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« Reply #397 on: May 16, 2021, 04:42:27 PM »
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I arranged a second inspection with the engineer, and in the course of conversation found out that he needs to inspect all the anchor plate installations (not just the ones inside the B-pillar).  There's no point in getting him out twice, so I postponed the inspection until I have all six anchor plates in place.  So the order of tasks has been shuffled around again.

I mounted an anchor plate inside the driver's side B-pillar, but only put one plug weld in.  The inner face of the B-pillar will be the last piece to be repaired, and I'll most likely have to cut off above the lower plug weld hole.



Putting the driver's side transmission tunnel anchor plate in was "just" a case of getting flat on my back under my other FC and transferring measurements to "Found Object".  The transmission tunnel on the driver's side is sound, quite unlike -

- The Floor Pan of Festiness.



The seat belt anchor plate would attach to thin air on this side.  I called up Rare Spares late last week to enquire about a LHR floor pan.  Good thing I did, as availability is the classic builders' "Narkup" (refer entry in Lauder, Afferbeck, Let Stalk Strine: Sydney, 1965).  So . . . I made up a newspaper pattern for the transmission tunnel and part of the rear floor.  But what I was running short of was 1 mm sheet.

There used to be a long-running ad in the "Accelerator" magazine which said, "Keep Your Holden All Holden".

So I am keeping my Holden Holden, rather than, say, Simpson, or Westinghouse, or Brownbuilt.  I sliced the skin off an old FJ rear door, traced the pattern onto the skin, and brushed up on my tailoring skills.



I had serious doubts about the wisdom of fabricating a repair section, when surely a replacement floor pan would be a better idea.  But I'm almost certain that the replacement floor pans don't reach as far up the tunnel as I want to go.  Yet, it came together a little more easily than I thought.  Still have to graft it in though.  And then I still have to attach the seat belt anchor plate.

Rob
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« Reply #398 on: May 16, 2021, 05:23:42 PM »
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Did the engineer get toey about the separation between the anchor plates (165mm minimum "across the hips" of a passenger and 250-350mm recommended, >200mm between any two adjacent bolts, no two belts may share a bolt)?

Cheers,
Harv
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« Reply #399 on: May 16, 2021, 07:44:18 PM »
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Harv,

No, he didn't.  After establishing the correct location for the shoulder anchor plates in the B-pillars, I asked him about the locations of the others in my grey FC, and he said they were fine.  So I guess that the >200 mm dimension is an along-the-surface measurement, and not necessarily straight-line.

Rob
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