FE-FC Holden Discussion Forum

Galleries => Project Cars - FEs and FCs Under Construction => Topic started by: ardiesse on April 06, 2019, 04:10:21 PM



Title: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on April 06, 2019, 04:10:21 PM
I really should know better.  I really should.

The back-story:  http://forum.fefcholden.club/index.php?topic=20763.0

When I "took the FC on", I already had two old Holdens, and didn't really need a third.

Fast forward ten years.  Strewth, has it been that long?  I already have three old Holdens, and I need a fourth like I need a hole in the head.
But today I went and got another FC Standard sedan from a fellow-member of the NSW club.  And just like before, I paid $700 for this one, too.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on April 06, 2019, 06:11:29 PM
(Some wonderment at the slooow home internet connection . . .)

(https://i.imgur.com/PaI4nEU.jpg)

It's complete, quite straight considering, but it has rust in all the usual places.  I reckon it has the makings of a good rat-rod.

Mechanically - well, that's another story.  I've been working on it more off than on for the past couple of years.  I re-did all the brake hydraulics, so the brakes work, and I'm amazed that after sitting unused for two years, the brakes still work.  The clutch hydraulics needed replacing; and I got the car to move under its own power.  Just.  The clutch slipped badly.  Then came a replacement clutch and pressure plate from my stores of second-hand parts.  And then I just spent a month of weekends on the fuel system: blocked fuel pickup in the tank (shove a piece of copper wire down the tank outlet until the blockage unblocked), drain and flush tank with about five litres of fuel, many times over, replace fuel pump (valves inoperative), and finally a known good carburettor.  It now starts and runs.  Just.  Number 3 has just about no compression, and I'm suspecting a burnt valve.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Corey05 on April 06, 2019, 07:07:18 PM
looks great and would make an awesome ratrod.

Corey


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on April 06, 2019, 09:16:47 PM
Need? It is essential to your mental well being Rob.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on April 06, 2019, 09:39:57 PM
So maybe I'll have to put "Essential to mental well-being" on the workshop wall as a motivational statement.

There are no visible holes in the floors or the boot pan; but the driver's side is pretty rotten.  The RH outer sill has holes big enough to stick your hand through, the No. 1 body crossmember is rusted for most of its length.  The subframe has "farm-grade" repairs, but isn't all that bad.  The doglegs have had it, just like my grey FC.  And the RHR inner quarter panel is "see-through".

It had had a fairly bad scrape down the driver's side sometime in the '70s, I'm guessing.  Both doors were roughly beaten out and then bogged up.  And as always with body repairs, the metal-mice set to work.  The driver's door had rusted out to make a slot big enough to post an A4 envelope through . . .

A couple of years ago I took the driver's door off the car to try repairing it.  I had a "donor" front door (equally rusty) to raid for patches.  And so -

Inside

(https://i.imgur.com/5AJhMjo.jpg)

And outside (tacked)

(https://i.imgur.com/7F1Zmhs.jpg)

I welded it and then dressed the welds down carefully, so as not to take any paint off, primed and painted the inside of the door, and pressure-pak clear-coated the outside.

The quarter window frame had fallen apart, so I replaced it, fitted a new seal and bailey channels.  That's one door done.  I might try the RHR door next before I strip the car down to a shell for the body repairs.

I'm tempted to pull the head off and fix what's wrong with Number 3, but that's just a distraction from the main game.

Rob



Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on April 07, 2019, 08:30:11 PM
I compression-tested the motor today, and scored 120, 130, 120, 120, 115, 125.  Definitely no valve troubles.  The problem's probably ignition, and I tracked it down to number 6 spark plug which had an internal short.  I raided my toolbox for an old Holden spark plug, cleaned it up, installed it, and - you beauty.

The engine now runs on six cylinders.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on April 07, 2019, 11:04:12 PM
That would have been very satisfying Rob.


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Title: Found Object
Post by: 59wagon on April 08, 2019, 01:21:34 PM
So maybe I'll have to put "Essential to mental well-being" on the workshop wall as a motivational statement.

Good to see you looking after your mental health Rob 😀  There's just something about shed time that appears to clear the mind.

Looking forward to following your adventure.

Cheers,

John


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on April 08, 2019, 07:40:28 PM
John,

Who knows?  Maybe I'll go for a long drive into the setting sun when I get it back on the road.  Best not to get ahead of myself though.  I now have to figure out where I'm going to store the panels, glass, interior and drivetrain before I strip the car down.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Corey05 on April 08, 2019, 07:57:49 PM
rob
some have yoga, some have meditation. Like you I have my FC. it has been great and encouraging to see this journey from the start. look forward to seeing more.

Cheers Corey


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on April 08, 2019, 09:14:45 PM
Corey,

It's going to be a lot like repairing the last one.  Good thing I kept all the patterns of the repair sections, 'cause I'll be reusing a lot of them.  And I managed to buy some repro inner sill front sections, which will save me a lot of work.

I'll start at the RHF corner and work my way around, like before.  I know a farmer in the Central West who has an EK sedan that got turned into a "shooting landau" in the late '70s.  Bit of a shame now, because the underbody is rust-free.  I might see about unstitching the front floor pan, complete with No.1 body crossmember.  Hoping the FC and EK manual front floor pressings are the same.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on April 08, 2019, 11:11:28 PM
Pretty sure they are interchangeable Rob, although there was a slight change in the pressings front passenger corner. The EK floor pan was reworked slightly to somewhat reflect the driver side steering column hole flange. The early build FBs even used the firewall centre pressing from FC, the difference being position of the heater hose hole and around the regulator mounting (FB) position (Useless fact to showcase my obscure knowledge).


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on April 09, 2019, 08:11:02 AM
G'Day Rob ..So another FC undergoing a resto ,good on you ,looks a nice unit to work on ..I haven't touched mine in 5 weeks ,bit of chrome polishing that's all..been sick also ..back into it next week I hope..Vern ..


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: 59wagon on April 10, 2019, 10:56:01 PM
.....,I might see about unstitching the front floor pan, complete with No.1 body crossmember.  Hoping the FC and EK manual front floor pressings are the same.

Hi Rob,

Just had a look in the parts book.  FC & EK front pans have different part numbers (though possibly very similar as Clay says), though FE to EK have the same part number for the centre pressing.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190410/7c152a6cbb75c2069fdd5251ca546e04.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190410/72461d00a22936baaef06bcb0f4670ed.jpg)

Cheers,

John


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: fcwrangler on April 11, 2019, 11:15:33 AM
Hi Rob, Iím fairly sure the floor pan I had for my rebuild may have been an EK one. If you look at my build page the photo of the pan shows a U shape pressing on the left side top at the joint seam. When I removed the FC floor it didnít have that pressing in it. Check yours and the EK one and do some measurements to be sure, would be a lot easier job if it fits.
Jim


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on April 11, 2019, 11:34:15 AM
Hi Rob, Iím fairly sure the floor pan I had for my rebuild may have been an EK one. If you look at my build page the photo of the pan shows a U shape pressing on the left side top at the joint seam. When I removed the FC floor it didnít have that pressing in it. Check yours and the EK one and do some measurements to be sure, would be a lot easier job if it fits.
Jim
As per my post above the U shape is a mirroring of the steering column cut out flange, presumably for LHD export compatibility. The fit to upper firewall seam is not affected by this.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on April 12, 2019, 09:53:13 AM
Gentlemen,

Thanks for the excerpts from the master parts cattle-dogs.  I'm thinking that it will probably be quicker overall for me to rebuild the No.1 body crossmember than go out to Parkes, unstitch the front floor, and graft it in.  And I may confine myself to panel repairs first, so the car stays in one piece as long as it can.  They take up much less space when assembled . . .

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on April 12, 2019, 12:24:55 PM
The body member is easy to fold up in the vice as Iím sure you are aware. 20# sheet from recollection.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on May 28, 2019, 09:56:05 PM
I need to lodge a warranty claim.

Started the car up on Sunday, and it had a big flat spot off idle, so I "overhauled" the carburettor this evening (clean crud out of float bowl, replace perished accelerator pump plunger and leaking check valve, remove main jet and discharge jet, clean and replace).

I went to start the car, and there was a definite "clunk" in engine-land when I cranked it over.  It didn't start, and didn't sound right when cranking either.  When I turned the motor over by hand, it felt quite lacking in compression, and I couldn't hear it "breathe" through the air intake.  Fearing the worst, I took the oil filler cap off, felt around for a rocker arm with my left hand and turned the motor over with my right.  The rocker wasn't rocking.  And yes, I made certain that the fan belt wasn't slipping.

I've broken a camshaft timing gear.


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on May 28, 2019, 10:40:49 PM
At least it happened at home Rob ;-)


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on May 28, 2019, 10:42:09 PM
Last time I did that was half way between Pt Augusta and Iron Knob.


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Title: Re: Timing gear
Post by: old-blu on May 29, 2019, 08:37:40 AM
  Hi Rob. I have original large  fibre timing gears. Also a new steel set if you are thinking of using those. Kevin.


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on May 29, 2019, 10:57:23 AM
Kevin,

Thanks for the offer.  The FE-FC club has alloy gears, and I probably have an old fibre gear I can use.  Maybe.  It would be good to have the project mobile until I strip it down.

Curiously, I have a newly rebuilt motor sitting on a stand at home.  Swap, or repair the present motor?  Either way, it'll be an engine-out job.

Clay,

There must be something about the Eyre Peninsula.  My last broken timing gear was at Port Lincoln.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on May 30, 2019, 11:32:01 AM
Hi Rob ..Sorry to hear of your timing gear going ..I would like to know when you pull it down what you believe the cause was ,also what size main jet did you fit in carby ,I put a .051 in mine ,and have been running it on test rig off and on for months now ,and have come to the conclusion it using a lot of fuel.plenty black soot in exhaust pipe ..Vern


Title: Re:blinker lights
Post by: my8thholden on June 03, 2019, 07:49:02 AM
Got the Ba15d LED lights in amber ,work really well in rear tail light assembly ,in lower clear lense , off the car ,should be good on final assembly ..Vern .


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on August 24, 2019, 09:44:49 PM
Who's feeling a little embarrassed?

I had confidently diagnosed a broken timing gear, and since today seemed like a good day for an engine-out, I pulled the motor and gearbox out and set it up on the test stand.  Removed the harmonic balancer (more on that later), popped the timing cover off, and . . . all gear teeth present in their correct locations.

OK. So what's going on?  I turned the motor over (b.f.screwdriver in the uni-joint holes in spare driveshaft yoke, top gear) and it tended to bind in some places, and made some occasional clunking sounds in valve-train-land.  Water in cylinder bores?

Removed spark plugs and turned the motor over.  Still tended to bind; but no water came out the plug holes.  What's happening under the rocker cover?  Six bent pushrods, that's what.  Strangely, all six for the inlet valves.  OK, then . . .

I removed the rocker gear and straightened six pushrods, replaced the rocker gear and turned the motor over.  It tended to bind, and made a clunking sound in valve-train-land.  That's not good.  So I pulled the rocker gear off again and discovered that I'd bent one of my laboriously straightened pushrods, which I then straightened.  Again.

"Stupid is when you do the same thing over again expecting a different result."
Thinks: bent pushrods are usually caused by stuck valves.  I got a brass drift and a hammer, and went down the order tapping on the valve stems.  All exhaust valves free.  All inlet valves stuck, except number 1.

The cylinder head's off now, sitting on its side on the bench with kero in the inlet ports.  The inlet valves have gummed up shut.  I kid you not.  This is what happens when you start a car with >10-year-old fuel from the tank: most of the petrol has evaporated, leaving a soup of sludge and crap in the tank, which travels through the fuel system and ends up in the inlet tract.  The engine gets nice and warm, and the lighter fractions in the sludge evaporate, leaving a pretty effective adhesive to glue the inlet valves shut.  And the reason why number 1 inlet valve is still free is that it's uphill, and doesn't get bathed in sludge like the others.

Another patient admitted to the grey motor hospital . . .

Oh - the harmonic balancer.  It's one of the aftermarket ones.  I wondered why it came off with hardly any resistance.  Most of the hub stayed on the crankshaft.  It looks like it'd been speedy-sleeved (don't know whether all the aftermarket ones are), and it fractured.  A few blows with b.f.h. and chisel right above the keyway (being careful not to slip with the b.f.h. and moosh the camshaft gear teeth) and I could lever the remains of the hub off with a couple of screwdrivers.  This motor is going to get a reconditioned original-style balancer.

Maybe, on reflection, it was a good idea to do an engine-out.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on August 24, 2019, 11:09:44 PM
Gee, no rest for the wicked Rob.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on August 25, 2019, 07:47:09 AM
By the way Rob ,was that fuel E10 ?..I cleaned a generator carby that was glug from old E10 fuel with Citrus Paint Stripper ,it came up a treat ..


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on August 25, 2019, 11:59:55 AM
Vern,

The last fuel I put in the tank was regular unleaded. I don't think E10 is to blame.
Until I pull the car apart, I'll be running the engine from a mower fuel tank direct into the fuel pump.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: 59wagon on August 25, 2019, 06:32:10 PM
Hi Rob, fun, fun, fun hey?

....... I pulled the motor and gearbox out and set it up on the test stand.

Do you have any pic's or ideas for a grey motor test stand?  I've been thinking of building one and have a few ideas, but any advice would be helpful.

Cheers, John


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on August 25, 2019, 10:36:48 PM
John,

Take a look at the thread "The Black Art of Cooling Grey Motors".  I took a couple of photos of an engine in the test stand.  I made it from galvanised steel angle from Bunnings and three axle stands.  The only thing that's a little tricky is setting up the brackets for the transmission mounts - the motor and gearbox slope down at the rear, which means that the brackets aren't horizontal; and the stands don't face fore-and-aft, but are slightly rotated.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: 59wagon on August 25, 2019, 11:34:06 PM
Thanks Rob :)


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on August 27, 2019, 11:34:19 AM
. . . and I found that kerosene hardly budges the gummy residue.  WD-40 is better, but still very slow.  The best, I found, was acrylic lacquer thinners.
I've cleaned the inlet valves, the guides and the inlet ports.
Is there a head-gasket-removing solvent available?  It takes quite some effort with a chisel to remove the remains of the head gasket.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on August 27, 2019, 08:23:55 PM
Strip it disc in an angle grinder ..go carefully and keep it nearly flat ...removed remains of gasket today on an International engine ,works well ..Vern


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on August 27, 2019, 09:26:10 PM
Good idea.  Didn't think of that.  It would probably be a good move to put a rag over the camshaft side of the cylinder block so I don't get gasket dust in the sump.


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on August 28, 2019, 07:27:31 AM
Yes Rob ,the dust is not wanted ,definitely protect against it ,at oil and water access areas..I was thinking about your sticky inlet valves ,its usually oil coming down the valve stem that builds up with heat and carbon ,and contributed to by worn guides and valve stem seal failure ..its odd that residue from burning old petrol finds its way "UP" the valve stem and guide and bends 5 or so push rods at the one time ,while the plugs keep firing  ..or even made its way thru the carby ,old fuel standing in a vehicle that builds up sludge would be right through the fuel system..I would be looking for " murphy " also ,that unexpected finding ..cheers Vern ..


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on August 28, 2019, 10:11:49 AM
Vern,

The car had been parked facing downhill in the drive before I picked it up, and I think the fuel level in the tank was higher than the float bowl.  It's just possible that, if the needle and seat didn't seal perfectly, fuel might seep down into the inlet manifold and evaporate, leaving the gummy residue.  The fuel bowl in the carburettor was liberally coated in varnish inside.  And the amount of crap that came out of the tank when I drained it had to be seen to be believed.  To be on the safe side, I might have to pour some lacquer thinners into the cylinder bores, no. 6 particularly, just in case the rings are in a mood to stick in the grooves.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on August 29, 2019, 07:08:06 AM
Hi Rob ..Sounds like a lot of unusual sludge ,shame ,bugger,In theory a car with a full tank of fuel parked on a hill should remain that way ..freeing up piston rings ,HMMMM ! if it were I ,and the amount of sludge you know is there ,and your fearfull its also in the rings ,I would sump off ,and take pistons out ..100% piece of mind ..guess work removed ..all the best Vern .


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on August 31, 2019, 03:11:47 PM
I replaced the busted aftermarket harmonic balancer with a fair-to-good original, and made a discovery - the cylinder block's cracked.  I wondered why there was a rusty stain on the crankcase behind the generator.  Now I know.  I'll reassemble the motor so it goes, and then pressure-test the cooling system to confirm.

There are times when having spare motors is of advantage.  This is one of them.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on August 31, 2019, 07:31:57 PM
I got rid of an L series recently. Darn, you could have had it.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on August 31, 2019, 07:51:41 PM
maybe you can Irontite stitch it .


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on August 31, 2019, 08:28:09 PM
I'll assemble and install it.  It'll run well enough until I strip the car down.  I had been considering a 3-3/16" bore B-motor I have at home as a possibility.  I think I'll go with it.  The head's had quite a lot of work done on it, but it'd need rings, bearings and a slightly lumpy cam.

A cursory valve grind, and the cylinder head's now back together.  I think the poor motor never got any oil up top.  No. 1 exhaust valve has about the same clearance in the guide as the tappet setting.  It is *loose*.  And it's had a set of red motor exhaust valves fitted.  The seating area is right up the inside of the valve faces.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on August 31, 2019, 08:29:16 PM
Oh, and four cam followers had little bits broken off the side.  Collateral damage from bent pushrods.


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: mcl1959 on September 01, 2019, 03:49:15 PM
Sounds like that head is about finished, not much you can do when the valves have recessed that far.
Ken


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on September 01, 2019, 10:48:35 PM
Ken,

The valve seats haven't recessed.  It's just that the exhaust valve seats are the grey motor size, while the exhaust valves themselves are for a red motor, 0.080" bigger in diameter.  Hence the offset position of the valve seats with respect to the middle of the exhaust valve faces.

I put the rocker assemblies back on, and guess what - the motor didn't want to turn.  And yes, I gently bent another pushrod.  Something's binding. I pulled the rocker assemblies off again, and checked the pushrods.  All in the range 256-257 mm long.  At firing instant for each cylinder, the pushrod tips sit 1-5/8" to 1-11/16" above the milled surface of the head, except no. 6 inlet, which sits 1-13/16" above the milled surface of the head.  No. 6 inlet cam follower appears to be a late type.  I'll have to substitute a short pushrod to go with it.

I'm wondering how this motor ever went . . .


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on September 02, 2019, 06:37:31 AM
Rob.." substitute a short push rod to go with it "!!!! Sounds like you are going to use mixture of components ..Don't do that ..use correct and checked components ...


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: mcl1959 on September 02, 2019, 08:39:35 AM
Rob, I see what you mean now!
I agree, how could the motor have run with a mismatched follower and rod. Maybe they ground a rocker down to suit :o

Ken


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on September 02, 2019, 08:26:49 PM
I put a "short" pushrod into (correction) no. 5 inlet, and all is good.  The motor turns over freely now.

Vern - there's a whole story about pushrods and cam followers.  There are "early" and "late" pushrods, and "early" and "late" cam followers.  "Late" cam followers have a thicker base than "early" ones, and the "late" pushrods are about 4 mm shorter than "early" pushrods to compensate.  The Service Bulletin dealing with followers and pushrods says it's OK to substitute "late" and "early" types for each other, as long as they are swapped over in pairs.

In practice this doesn't always happen.  You can just about get away with early follower/late pushrod if you wind the adjuster right down.  But late follower/early pushrod is almost always a recipe for disaster.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on September 02, 2019, 09:01:32 PM
Hi Rob ..perhaps Holden could have added in their bulletin swapped over in pairs and in "sets "


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on September 03, 2019, 09:34:00 PM
. . . distributor installed and timed.  Manifold heat riser valve freed up.  Lacquer thinners through the inlet manifold to get rid of the gum.  An hour or so wasted bending the fuel and vac. adv. pipe to something like the shape they're supposed to be in.  Lacquer thinners through the fuel pipe.  And the fuel pump bowl was full of sludge, the same consistency as congealed gravy.  Wiped out sludge.  Flushed the fuel pump with petrol until the petrol came out clean.

I thought I might be able to start the motor tonight, but 9 pm has come, and it wouldn't be a good look to disturb the neighbours' kid practising minor scales with really strange-sounding intervals on the piano.  A fast 6/8 beat from an unmuffled exhaust would not go down well.


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on September 04, 2019, 06:53:52 AM
Rob..what did you end up doing with the valve train ?..Vern ..


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on September 04, 2019, 08:17:14 AM
Curious how those fuel and vacuum tubes can distort time......


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on September 04, 2019, 10:10:52 AM
Vern,

I put a late FB-EJ pushrod in the No. 5 inlet position.  When I did that, the pushrod tip sat 1-5/8" above the milled surface of the head, like all the others.  So I infer that the no. 5 inlet cam follower is a late FB-EJ type, and all the others are FJ-early FB.  The engine now turns over without any hint of binding, and the valve clearances all adjusted normally.

Clay,

When you say, "curious how those . . . vacuum tubes can distort time" you made me think of the guitar amplifier in "Back to the Future".

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on September 04, 2019, 12:24:51 PM
Iím very vaguely familiar with that movie Rob. Doesnít it feature an eccentric yet very handy and creative electronic engineer? 😊😊


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on September 04, 2019, 07:43:25 PM
Connected battery cables, ignition, and a mower tank with fuel, turned the key, and . . .
the motor started and ran.  Like it had never given trouble.
Quite anticlimactic really . . .

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on September 08, 2019, 12:22:15 PM
The motor's back in now, and the car moves under its own power.
Every time I get under the car I manage to make little piles of rust flakes and dirt on the carport floor.  The right hand sill has more than one clear-vision part now, as does the no. 1 body crossmember.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on September 08, 2019, 01:41:59 PM
After your brief distraction with the mechanicals I predict you are in for many hours of fun cutting welding and grinding. You only paid $700 so Iím surprised the car is as good as it is. That is how much I paid for my first EK in 1986.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on October 07, 2019, 05:20:30 PM
A temporary cease-fire in the Battle of Firewood and the Leaf Wars this afternoon.  I stripped the hardware out of the RHR door.  I couldn't unlock it and I couldn't open it.  So I pulled the door trim off in situ, "encouraged" the window to wind down, and worked out where to put a screwdriver into the door lock mechanism to allow the door to open (lift ratchet pawl with screwdriver).

The bottom of the door frame is rusted worse than the skin, but at least it's only flat sections that need replacing.  Yet another pile of dirt and rust on the carport floor . . .


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on March 22, 2020, 09:18:32 PM
The LORD be with you.
And also with you.

Let us pray.

(https://i.imgur.com/EEKJJ4o.jpg)

Almighty God, to whom all hearts are open, all desires known, and from whom no secrets are hid . . .

(https://i.imgur.com/EAvTGDv.jpg)

The Gospel reading is taken from Matthew, chapter 6, verse 19 -

"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal."

(https://i.imgur.com/OfM8UZu.jpg)

Lift up your hearts.
We lift them to the Lord.
Let us give thanks to the Lord our God.
It is meet and right so to do.

(https://i.imgur.com/7a8szCt.jpg)

Behold, I am making all things new.

Procedamus in pace.
In nomine Christi, Amen.

Not bad for a day's work, if I say so myself.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: 59wagon on March 22, 2020, 11:25:49 PM
Well done Pastor Robert. 👍

May the grinder and welder be with you.

Cheers, John


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on March 23, 2020, 10:06:29 AM
. . . and also with you.

It is noteworthy how much more I can get done now that church services have been cancelled.
And as for the on-line streaming services, I will treat them with the contempt they rightly deserve.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: KFH on March 24, 2020, 07:54:48 AM
Amen


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on March 28, 2020, 05:59:11 PM
Yesterday, while the sheet-metal shop at work was still open for business foreign orders, I cut a long section out of a donor panel, and folded over a ~10 mm return for the outer skin.  And "I 'ad a fink, an' a cuppa tea", and figured that it would be less trouble to turn the donor panel into a quarter-skin (or maybe a sixth-skin).  I traced the outline of the bottom 150 mm of the door onto cardboard, marked up the "quarter-skin", trimmed it and put the extra folds in.  The wheel-arch profile was fairly straightforward.  I started on the B-pillar fold, and found that the skin was about 5 mm too long.  I got the length right on my third attempt at the fold.

I think the effort in fabricating the replacement panel will be worth it - a straight-line weld is always easier than turning corners.

More crud came out of the door when I cut the rusty part of the outer skin off.  There are a few craters in the bottom of the frame to repair before I splice the repair section in.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on March 29, 2020, 05:10:31 PM
I was foolish enough to say, "a few craters in the bottom of the frame to repair . . ."  It more resembled a colander, once I'd chipped the rust scale away and wire-brushed it.

It's repaired now, but took all day.

Question for the brains trust:  What is the best paint/preservative to use on the inner parts of a door, especially freshly welded parts?

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on March 29, 2020, 06:23:40 PM
If you have a nice clean surf@ce to put paint on you couldnít go past the Epotec 2k Iíve been using.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200329/457c56806087965e40b09bbb34832dc3.jpg)
 Then cavity wax or synthetic fish oil.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on April 04, 2020, 06:52:14 PM
I didn't like the idea of two-pack paint (no experience, don't have a functioning spray gun at the moment, would prefer to brush the paint on . . .) so yesterday I tried the black epoxy from Super Cheap.  It says you can apply it without primer.  Anyway, wire brush, some sandpaper, Deoxidine, and then a lick of paint.

(https://i.imgur.com/Z7oZVjV.jpg)

(Sorry, over-exposed highlights)

And then, by the time sunset came around:

(https://i.imgur.com/eFixBBd.jpg)

The 90/10 rule applies to welding sheet metal too.  Preparation, preparation, preparation.  Get the gaps even.  Line the donor piece up carefully.  Quenching block in hard contact with the seam is absolutely essential.  I have a ~1" thick x 10" long piece of machined aluminium, and I drilled and tapped it M3 in five places.  I notched the parent and donor pieces to take the screws, and then spent a lot of time moving the quenching block from place to place.  Tack welds first.  Sand them down with a disc and backing pad.  Then a series of half-inch welds.  I put a folded wet towel about an inch above the seam.  Double duty: it keeps the panel cool, and it damps out sound when I use the angle grinder.  Weld.  Tap weld while still hot.  Wipe with damp rag to cool weld site.  Go somewhere else.  After a half-dozen welds, sand them down, planish.  Do not rush.

I'm quite happy with the result.  I still have to "tip" the folds over and then massage the door to suit the opening.  A quick hit with Deoxidine, and some clear-coat, and the Frankenstein scars will still be visible.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on April 04, 2020, 07:59:48 PM
So a two pack Rob?

Nice work keeping the skin flat.

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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Luke Healey on April 04, 2020, 09:58:31 PM
Some good tips there for a beginner welder like myself. Cheers, Luke

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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on April 11, 2020, 06:09:58 PM
The RHR door is now rust-converted, red-oxide-primed and matt-black-epoxy enamelled on the inside.

I started "Found Object" up, drove it out of the garage, and set to work on the passenger's side doors.  The car now weighs about a kilo less than it did this morning.  The amount of rust scale and dirt that came out of the passenger's side doors . . .

And it was the usual amount of trouble stripping the LHR door down.  Window seized solid in the bailey channels, and the window glass lift channel came off when I tried to pull the glass down.  And the division channel stud was rusted firmly in place.

Hint for the amateur door dismantler:  Use a MAP gas torch with a gentle flame, aimed directly upwards on the stud and the threaded tab.  Heat until just red (and make sure nothing else catches fire), allow to cool, and the stud will come free.

LHF door will wait until the sun is shining again.

Catastrophe narrowly averted:  My nephew has been flogging his Xbox to within an inch of its life.  Its "most exquisite quality" replacement power supply got hot and let out the magic smoke, complete with exploding electrolytic capacitor, depriving him of existence in his MMORPGs.  Replacement ordered, but several days' delivery time.  Oh no. Existential crisis.  What to do?  I suggested a car battery and a pair of jumper leads, because an Xbox runs off . . . wait for it, 12 V.  He still had the power supply which came with his previous Xbox, but of course Microsoft designs the accursed things with sui generis power connectors, which (of course) they change with each model release.  The previous model power supply's ratings are about the same as those of his present model's power supply.  So Muggins here defeated the bloody tamper-proof Torx screws with a centre-punch and a drill, exchanged the DC supply cords, bridged out the +5V and +12V return terminals, and replaced the covers with duct tape, as befitting an emergency repair.  My nephew is now back in the Metaverse with his Adelaide cousins.  Phew.  After all, what else would I be doing on a sunny weekend afternoon?  Hmm.  Let me think . . .

Oh yes, there was yesterday's effort with his A6 and its aftermarket fulli-sik wirelessly-controlled exhaust bypass gimcrackery, which allows him to go from stealth mode to annoy-the-neighbours mode with the touch of a button.  Except when the butterfly valve actuators only drive in one direction when attached to the vehicle, but yet in both directions when removed from the vehicle . . .  That was a subtle one.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on April 12, 2020, 06:05:14 PM
The RHR door is now reassembled with all internal hardware.  Jobs like these are much easier the second time around.

The LHR door is red-oxide-primered inside.

The LHF door is stripped down, wire-brushed internally and rust-converted.  It was the usual fight to get it apart (read entry for LHR door), but it must have had some replacement internals in (say) the '70s.  The division channel bailey was in excellent condition, good enough to read 7408509 in pencil on the rear, and the window glass and lift channel were also in excellent condition, with 7408344 in crayon on the rubber flap (still pliable!).  Quarter window was shattered, and the frame's festy, but I've got a replacement in good enuff condition.  just waiting for Rares to get a LHF quarter window rubber.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on April 13, 2020, 07:39:45 AM
Rob..Got my front 1/4 rubbers from Old Auto at Penrith ,they were Rares product ,they may still have stock if Rares are out ..Vern..


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on April 13, 2020, 01:44:14 PM
The best place to store panels is on the vehicle . . .

(https://i.imgur.com/F2Ay2M2.jpg)

It's enough to make me think there's some hope yet.

But I'm in a bit of a quandary with the passenger's door:

(https://i.imgur.com/M6TghAW.jpg)

There's really only paint holding the rust together.  The holes are just big enough to make me think I should try patching them.  But if I start welding, I'll need to replace a strip about fifteen inches long.  Maybe a few tack welds and a liberal coat of seam sealer on the inside, once I've rust-convertered and primered the inside surface.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on April 14, 2020, 06:06:15 PM
"The sun comes up, it's a new day dawning . . ."

I ummed and ahhed for a while.  I have neither bog nor seam-sealer.  But I do have a welder.  And I found an offcut from the donor door that was about the right length.  So I bit the bullet, marked up and cut the graft, took a deep breath, and sliced out the diseased section of the door.

Mister MIG had been acting a bit ornery for a couple of years now.  Sometimes when I started an arc, there'd be a loud "bang", the feed would go "rrrr-r-r", and the welding wire would melt into the tip and stick.  Or I'd start an arc, and there'd be an empty "hmmmm" sound, and I'd watch a ball of melt go from sand-grain to peppercorn and not actually transfer to the job.  Then when I pulled the wire out to free it, there'd be a quarter-inch length of melt, next to the feed wire.  It had melted inside the tip.

And then a "no shit, Sherlock" moment:  I haven't replaced the tip in all the >20 years and three restoration jobs I've had the welder.  The welding wire had at least its own diameter of clearance inside the tip.  That means it's worn out.  I remember that a small bag of accessories came with the welder when I bought it.  After 20 years?  Well, I found it.  New tip, and the welder is transformed.  It now operates reliably on the lowest current setting.  Useful when trying to weld paper-thin metal.

(https://i.imgur.com/2LnxsGH.jpg)

My intention is to use no bog.  Just welds.

This one makes it four doors rescued.  Front guards next.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: JOX515 on April 14, 2020, 06:53:27 PM
>20 years and it is not working properly...Ö they just don't make things to last these days..   :)


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on April 14, 2020, 06:58:19 PM
Umm, yeah.  I was getting to the stage of thinking I'd have to buy another welder.  But I couldn't cope with the thought of just putting it in the bin.

Hare and Forbes most likely won't have replacement parts for a twenty-year-old el-cheapo MIG welder, so I'll reverse-engineer the tip and get the machine shop at work to make a few for me.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on April 15, 2020, 07:43:00 AM
Your planning on welding for another 20 yrs !!!!!..Rob ,if your stuck I can loan you a gasless " el cheapo " welder ..Vern ..


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on April 19, 2020, 06:04:56 PM
"Found Object" is now a four-door again.  I know where a lot of the weight in a Holden lies: the front doors.  With all their hardware, they're heavy.  And swinging a front door single-handed [sarcasm]is no trouble at all[/sarcasm].  The usual gotchas in rebuilding a front door applied:

The Rare Spares quarter window rivets need reworking to fit FE-FC quarter windows.  The hole in the outer frame is 1/8" (3.2 mm) diameter; the hole in the quarter window frame is say 5.85 mm dia.  The Rares rivet is 6.20 mm (so not even 1/4") diameter on the first shoulder, and 3.53 mm dia on the stem.  It's easy enough to drill the hole in the outer frame to 3.5 dia, but I didn't want to rework the hole in the quarter window frame for fear of breaking the glass.  So I chucked the rivet into the drill press and filed the first shoulder down until it fitted into the hole in the outer frame.  The rivet stem was a good press-fit in the 3.5 dia. hole.  I used a 3" G-clamp and a 5 mm socket and eased the rivet into place.  Peening the rivet over is a job for Vishnu (you need four hands . . .) but manageable.

The bailey channel kit supplied by Rare Spares is an inch too long for a rear door and an inch too short for a front door.

The front quarter window division channel strip has two "ribs" that run down the sides on the face that attaches to the division channel.  It's best to grind these off before fitting the strip.  (bench grinder, patience).  And ordinary super-glue bonds the rubber strip to the division channel very well.

Remember to put the window winder in place before installing the front division channel.  Otherwise you'll have to take it out again to get the window winder into place.  The best order of installing internal components is:

Door lock mechanism, rear bailey channel retainer, rear bailey channel, window glass in door, window winder, rain deflector, quarter window assembly, then the division channel.  Install the division channel stud from inside the door, before putting the division channel in place.  Push the quarter window assembly into place and loosely install the lower two screws.  Put the window into the rear channel, engage it into the division channel, line the division channel up, install the top quarter window screw, slide the window half-way up, install the two screws at the rear bottom of the quarter window.  Adjust the division channel stud, tighten the locknut, slide the window all the way down, engage the lift channel with the window winder.  Now is a good time to install the door belt weatherstrips, if you are happy that the window glass slides freely.  Install and tighten the window winder screws.  Install the top bailey channel.  Job done.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: mcl1959 on April 19, 2020, 07:56:58 PM
Good job Rob, thatís a good set of instructions. Iíve done up and undone that many components in the front doors itís not funny. Itís like you say, half do something and then put another piece in. Then put another random piece in and go back to the first thing you were working on.

Ken



Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on April 20, 2020, 12:00:27 AM
Yep  good description Rob

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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on April 20, 2020, 08:00:37 AM
hey Rob ,,Ive just done mine ,and ditto , I elected to put top bailey channel in before side ones ,support on the ends  ..Vern ..


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on April 20, 2020, 05:31:24 PM
The exploded diagram starts.

(https://i.imgur.com/zOaRo6K.jpg)

Despite the car's generally run-down appearance, this was the first time the front bumper, apron panel and grille have been removed from the car.  The self-tapping screws hadn't been disturbed . . . up till now.  There'll be lots more disturbances to come.

I didn't realise that there was a rubber gasket between the front guards and the grille frame.

And I can set to work on the holes in the subframe apron and radiator supports while the subframe's still on the car.  When the subframe apron fills up with water and mud, there's only one place the gunk can drain to: the subframe tie member, courtesy the holes for the crossmember outrigger bracket.  The tie member itself will have to wait until the subframe's off, though.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on April 20, 2020, 05:58:33 PM
Looks like you are having fun Rob.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on April 20, 2020, 06:23:10 PM
Yeah.  The bumper bolts, particularly, didn't want to let go.  Good cop/bad cop routine (WD-40/MAP gas torch) was quite persuasive.  After removing all the screws I pulled on the grille.  Didn't budge.  Thought that Holden's engineers might have hidden a couple of screws out of sight (think '48 grilles), but no.  Anyway, bit by bit the grille unstuck.

It's easier having pulled an FC apart already.  When I got my other FC, I knew EKs, I knew humpies, but had no FE/FC experience.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Longman on April 20, 2020, 07:13:28 PM
Got any pics of the grille gasket?


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on April 20, 2020, 08:32:55 PM
I only have fragments of it (the gasket, that is).  I reckon that a piece of truck inner tube cut to shape would do the trick.  And/or mastic sealant.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: mcl1959 on April 20, 2020, 09:41:35 PM
Not only did the grille have a gasket but the guards had them too. Up near the grille and down the bottom near the bottom of the door.

Ken


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Longman on April 21, 2020, 06:31:45 AM
Not only did the grille have a gasket but the guards had them too. Up near the grille and down the bottom near the bottom of the door.

Ken

Thanks Jen, so not factory then. I know the guards had lacing along the door end.


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on April 21, 2020, 07:45:25 AM
Gents ..yes please more info and any pics of grille / guard gaskets ..My vehicle had no gaskets around the grille ..The guards ,there is the just the outer door / guard seal ,no other gasket was evident on dismantling ,just bitumen based sealer ..and lots of it  .yes I would love to know what where ??? thanks stay well Vern


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: mcl1959 on April 21, 2020, 02:46:37 PM
Not the dust seal, a rubber sleeve over the bottom of the guard edge where it contacted the body at the sill.

Ken


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: mcl1959 on April 21, 2020, 02:58:58 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/Wt6zMK6L/BED3049-C-C388-493-F-BB40-0-BEE23-C24-C12.jpg) ($2)

These are the guard seals or antisqueak. 1 goes down the grille and one at the bottom of the guard.

They are mentioned below in the workshop manual under installation

(https://i.postimg.cc/YjkYKQd7/F201-BF46-8061-4-EEE-8-FC0-F3-E89-E2-A9801.jpg) ($2)

Ken


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on April 21, 2020, 06:22:15 PM
The rubber that goes between the front guard's "mouth" and the grille frame appears to be a specially moulded part, in that it has a groove moulded in it so it can slip over the leading edge of the guard and stay there.  I could see the remains of the strip that runs along the top of the subframe skirt, and the part of the front door seal that goes between the rear of the front guard and the body.  But I couldn't find any evidence of a rubber strip between the subframe and the grille frame.

The RHF guard's off.  The inside top bolt (the one that you can't see, that's partially hidden by the upper door hinge, that you have to take the front seat out and lie on the front floor to have any hope of removing) was an hour-long project.  Ken, would I be right in thinking that the factory used Taptite screws at the rear of the front guards?  Because they were tight, and they were tight all the way out.

And under the front seat, I found fragments of the November 2, 1932 edition of the Sydney Morning Herald.  No, I kid you not.  Maybe Herbert George Wells was the first owner of this vehicle.

Barber's Towels: one shilling elevenpence ha'penny per dozen.
White damask luncheon serviettes: one and sixpence ha'penny for a half-dozen.
Striped tea-towelling: five and three-quarter pence per yard.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: mcl1959 on April 21, 2020, 09:05:27 PM
The screws at the very rear of the guard at the top are the same as the ones that go down the guard along the door edge.
My method to get them out
Get a 3/8 socket kit and two long extensions with the 7/16 socket on it.
If you go straight up the gap between the dash and body the socket will go straight onto the bolt head and stay there.
It wonít work with a 1/2 drive socket set.

Ken


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on April 21, 2020, 09:37:16 PM
. . . pretty much as I discovered.  The best is a 1/4" drive 6-point socket, with a 1/4 - 3/8 adaptor, a 3/8" extension, a 3/8 - 1/2 adaptor, a long 1/2" extension, and a ratchet.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on April 22, 2020, 07:52:54 AM
Masking tape to hold the extensions together so you donít lose them?


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on April 22, 2020, 08:45:32 PM
I thought of that only after dropping a 1/2" socket down the cowl.  But I remembered some of Harv's advice and wadded a rag into the bottom of the cowl panel.

The front door hinges need new hinge pins and springs, so it may be more convenient to fit the front guards with the front door hinges out.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on April 22, 2020, 08:54:49 PM
Fished a few bits of hardware out of the a pillar bottoms with magnet on a piece of tie wire.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on April 23, 2020, 06:57:24 AM
I was hoping to find something under the floor or swab of the seats to lead me to original owner ,an envelope with an address or a invoice or a paid receipt ,but no ,there was ,two one dollar coins , part of Tally HO cigarette paper pack ,50c piece ,old shopping list scribbled on piece of paper ,hardly legible ,and a 1941 threepence coin ..Vern


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on April 24, 2020, 03:10:54 PM
Here's the right hand front guard.

(https://i.imgur.com/MPudHbf.jpg)

It's a curious mix of the rotten and the sound.  The lower sill section is basically just air, but yet the headlight peak is good.  The lip of the guard at the top of the wheel arch is paper-thin, where it had been bent out of the way, and then left to rust.  Judging on that and the flattened webbing on the brake drums between the stud holes, I think that the car once had a set of widened Torana rims.

The stratigraphic record (as the geologists would say) is quite revealing.  First was underbody schutz under the headlight peak and along the rear inside of the guard.  Then somebody wadded up some rags and jammed them into the rear of the guard.  Then came something which looked for all the world like spray concrete.  The front indicator/parking lamp holder had been coated liberally in white mastic, and then painted over black.  Over time, of course, the underbody schutz separated from the metal in places, and the metal mice started gnawing.  With all that crud stripped out, the panel's much lighter than it was.

I set to work on the rear upper guard, but made the rookie-level mistake of too small a patch, and had to weld air in a few places.  Then I needed to put in another postage-stamp size patch.  Anyway, it came good.

(https://i.imgur.com/IHN2v0K.jpg)

I've got a Rare Spares lower front guard repair section to graft in over the weekend.  Says it's for FB/EK, but it will do the job.  The main drama will be in working out where to cut in order to avoid rust-pitted sections.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on April 24, 2020, 08:09:21 PM
Pity I cant lend you my fancy crimping tool over the back fence Rob or are you going to butt it? I did one on the FB recently, Was the large extended one. After I wished I'd gone smaller.

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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on April 24, 2020, 09:41:22 PM
Rob.so welder is all good again ?


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on April 24, 2020, 09:45:17 PM
Clay,

I'm planning on butting the join.  The repair piece I've got goes up just past the lowest bolt-hole in the rear of the mudguard.  My guard is rusted out to the point where the wheel arch lip becomes the sill's reveal line, and I think I'm going to need most of the repair panel.  I'll find out tomorrow.  It'll be one of these things where the closer the repair piece approaches the car, the more work it'll need to fit.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on April 24, 2020, 09:53:15 PM
Vern,

Yep.  I replaced the tip and the welder is behaving waay better than it had.  On the FB-EK forum, one of the guys was talking about "stacking the dimes" when TIG welding, and another suggested a similar approach with a MIG when the metal's very thin.  So I found if I put in a tack weld, then let the pool solidify (maybe a second), move on about 1/8" and put in another tack weld, and so on, while the metal's still hot, it's a good technique.  Four or five "dimes" in a row, and cool with a damp rag, I get good weld penetration, and don't blow holes.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on April 24, 2020, 10:49:47 PM
The third element being no distortion of course. That is the bit I'm still coming to grips with when it comes to butt welds on 20# sheet. Cooling and patience I know.

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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on April 24, 2020, 10:50:42 PM
That and hammer and dolly.

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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on April 25, 2020, 01:12:02 PM
I've started massaging the lower front guard repair section to suit.

(https://i.imgur.com/j4RTrEz.jpg)

I'll now concede that the FB/EK front guard lower repair sections are intended for . . . wait for it . . . FB/EK.  It's got to do with the profile of the wheel arch lip.  The piece of A4 paper (folded back) is a template for the FC wheel arch lip.  It only deviates from the FB/EK repair section's profile for the front three inches or so.  Some hammer-and-dolly work and (perhaps) a nip and weld should get it right.

And a fair amount of reworking is needed to get the reveal line's profile to resemble the original.  More work with hammer, dolly and sandbag.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on April 25, 2020, 03:41:45 PM
This is looking a lot better.

(https://i.imgur.com/fp1lOIb.jpg)

I didn't have to do a nip-and-weld like I thought.  And the inner edge of the return lined up pretty well, as an added bonus.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on April 25, 2020, 08:21:14 PM
Well Rob ,looks like you are on a roll ,keep at it ,there is no social distancing from the welder or grinder ..Vern


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on April 26, 2020, 07:03:01 AM
Rob..I just read your comments on weld ,and I am NO grand welder ,by any means ,we have used .92mm cold rolled steel sheet , splash a bit of water on it in morning ,by afternoon you can see the rust ,so we have been careful with rust proof on the reverse side on everything ,and yes ,we have found tac your work in place , then come back and fill in the gaps ,even then bit by bit ,letting cool as you go ...cheers Vern


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on April 26, 2020, 05:20:07 PM
The repair piece is tacked in place.

(https://i.imgur.com/tbkNxHk.jpg)

It looks like I moved the peak of the wheel arch lip a little too far.  I suppose this is the difference between overlapping the repair section and "patient", and butting them.  I'll have to bring the peak back gently.

The holes that Rare Spares provide for the two lower mounting bolts are never in the right place, it seems.  So I blanked them off.  The best thing to do will be to wait until I've replaced the sill, and then drill the inner sill flange and mudguard in one go.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: zulu on April 26, 2020, 08:06:40 PM

Rob, almost call that done, it's already black!
Seriously though, good progress


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on April 26, 2020, 08:28:18 PM
Gary,

That's the good thing about the Rare Spares repair sections - they come handily pre-painted.  I'm still wondering about leaving the ID stickers on the panel, but they'll most likely burn near the weld seam.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on April 26, 2020, 09:15:14 PM
You'll strip that black off I daresay Rob. Well d one, the FB EK patch was a good starting point, the price is re a s unable when you c insider the labour saved. Sorry about the bad syntax but you get the drift.

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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on April 27, 2020, 08:09:11 AM
Hey Rob .They were talking the other day on this forum about rubber gaskets at lower guard and grille ,I found bits of rubber in the grille box but don't know where a new one would fit or what it looks like ,I see you have your grille out could you indicate size and where , I don't recall any rubber in front guard and I am approaching that job this week ,right where you have shown the lower repair piece you are welding in ,the outer door seal runs down leading edge of door and then down and back along under the scuff plate ,does it go from that turn point in outer seal down to sill ,that area is really in the line of stuff coming off a rotating front wheel ..looks a tricky little place to make a gasket for ..any images of any one doing this ,guard and grille ...stay well Vern


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on April 27, 2020, 10:11:41 AM
Vern,

For the seal that runs down the rear of the front guard, I'd suggest bicycle inner tube cemented into place.  It would run along the "step" in the cowl at the top, and then all the way down the leading edge of the front door, to finish just above the front subframe bolt head.  As far as I know, the front guard does not have the "return" below the subframe bolt.  You can probably confirm this from your front guards.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on April 28, 2020, 02:25:13 PM
Vern,

I've looked at the grille-to-subframe rubber and the front guard-to-grille rubber.

The grille-to-subframe rubber is 12-1/2" long, 1" wide (approx.), and will need to be relieved at one place to clear the "ear" at the front guard flange.

The front guard-to-grille rubber is also 12-1/2" long and about 1" wide.  It'll need to be trimmed to suit the front guard's flange where it butts up against the grille, and will need to have two holes for the mounting screws.

Car or truck inner tube would be my suggestion.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: mcl1959 on April 28, 2020, 02:37:47 PM
You will be lucky to get a grille to subframe rubber in place, itís generally a tight fit and the thickness of the rubber plus the added friction doesnít help. Guard to grille rubber no problem.



Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on April 29, 2020, 04:47:13 PM
The front guard is essentially repaired.

(https://i.imgur.com/VWSYOTV.jpg)

I put in the little return section that had rusted away, knocked out a reasonable-size dent between the headlight and indicator, and "coloured-in" a couple of fingernail-size rust holes.  A welder and quenching block is quicker than bog, and more permanent.

LHF guard next.  But dark clouds on the horizon, with cold and rainy weather coming.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on April 29, 2020, 06:40:43 PM
Good weather for doing rust repairs as long as youíve got sheddage Rob


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on April 29, 2020, 06:54:48 PM
. . . but no door on the downstairs workshop, and the wind blows the rain inside.


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: DJ on May 01, 2020, 11:21:22 AM
..any images of any one doing this ,guard and grille ...

Did you get any pictures Vern?


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on May 02, 2020, 01:45:56 PM
Vern,

Haec epistula pro te est.

Pars interiora alae dextrae picturata rubra est.

(https://i.imgur.com/MwkJfDb.jpg)

Dum exspecto rubrum siccare, abstuli alam sinistram.

(https://i.imgur.com/PsQZmLa.jpg)

Sordida est!  Multus humus ad ea adhaesus est.  Sed videtur que ala sinsistra minorem ferruginem habet quam alam dextram.  Prime debeo totum illum humum detergere ab ea.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: DJ on May 02, 2020, 02:19:31 PM
That's exactly how I would have described it.


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on May 02, 2020, 04:21:37 PM
Once all the crud is scraped away, the secrets are revealed.

(https://i.imgur.com/NqBRBdS.jpg)

This is a little more like what I'd expect.  I have to repair the headlight peak.  No surprise really.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on May 02, 2020, 05:48:14 PM
Rob..I only did Latin first year of high school ,and always sat near a window..metal work and wood work got me away from the window ..I doubt there would be any guards not needing work around headlight peaks .join the club....your powering on ..cheers Vern .


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on May 02, 2020, 05:56:09 PM
Vern,

That's one more year of high-school Latin than me.  The classical languages had been abandoned by the time I got to high school.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: HAD 708 on May 02, 2020, 09:44:11 PM
Rob
I am loving watching this post ,its great very enjoyable.
Thanks
Brett


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on May 03, 2020, 05:02:36 PM
At first I thought I'd only have a couple of pinholes to repair above the reveal line on the LHF guard.  But it quickly turned into an exercise in welding air, so I figured I'd best slice out the diseased portion and replace it.

(https://i.imgur.com/bjqGSbR.jpg)

The "door that keeps giving" is supplying my needs for repair patches.  As for the part of the lower guard below the reveal line, I thought (as usual) that I'd only need maybe a 3 x 3 cm patch.  But as I wire-brushed and scraped, more and more daylight appeared.  I can probably keep the repair to the gently curved section, which means (hopefully) that I only need to bend the donor piece in just one direction.

Let's see.  I have an FB-EK LHF lower guard repair section just in case things go badly wrong.

Which reminds me - Does anybody want a set of four half-door skins for FE-FC (will also suit FB-EK)?  I rescued my doors without needing to use them.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on May 03, 2020, 09:31:52 PM
Thanks for the offer Rob. Must say, after collecting panels for over 20 years, Iíve been quite a bit luckier with doors and bonnets than I have with guards, or for that matter boot lids and tailgates.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on May 04, 2020, 07:29:26 AM
Rob ..You will place the 4 door skins no problems ,I hope its not me that needs them ..keep at it ..Vern


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: FireKraka on May 04, 2020, 10:07:20 AM
Hi Rob;
I might be interested in the door skins mate can you PM me with a price.

Neil


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on May 06, 2020, 03:33:29 PM
Another day at the "office" . . .

(https://i.imgur.com/DUVEYxj.jpg)

That's the lower rear section of the LHF guard repaired.  There's a rust hole at the cowl-bonnet-fender junction (shouldn't be too hard).  The welded reinforcement for the front bumper is rotten, so it'll need the spot-welds to be drilled, removed, both pieces repaired, and reassembled.  Time for a spot-weld drill, I think, because there'll be many more spot welds to drill by the time this project's finished.

And, of course, there's the headlight peak to repair too.  Happy days . . .

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on May 06, 2020, 05:23:04 PM
The hole at the cowl-bonnet-fender junction is filled in.  I filed the hole out until the metal was more than paper-thin and grafted a piece in.  The shock of welding then pinged a piece of scale off the guard, revealing another hole.  Duly coloured-in with "liquid-metal-gun" and quenching block.  Quenching block nearly became a permanent addition to the guard.  That's the problem with steel.  Use non-ferrous metal instead.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on May 06, 2020, 08:36:43 PM
Donít you love WFH Rob? I got 4 coats of primer on the ute today 8) 8)


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on May 06, 2020, 08:42:06 PM
. . . going over to FB-EK to see.


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on May 06, 2020, 08:53:26 PM
Better go down the shed and take some pics.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on May 08, 2020, 04:52:12 PM
This is getting a little obsessive-compulsive.

(https://i.imgur.com/LUXn1VY.jpg)

It's the reinforcing bracket where the front bumper bolts on.

I went to Lee Brothers and bought an 8 mm spot-weld drill, and it was fantastic.  Like a hot knife through butter, until I broke the tip off. (Fffricative).  I had an old 5/16" drill, and attempted to rework it into a spot-weld drill.  But it didn't work anywhere near as well.  I'm guessing that toolmakers will have an array of grinders and stones which put a home bench grinder to shame.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on May 09, 2020, 04:10:47 PM
The slightly fiddly repair to the LHF guard near the bumper mount is complete.

(https://i.imgur.com/4Eh7SC5.jpg)

The bracket is yet to be plug-welded in place, but I figured I'd put a little paint on the hidden surfaces before welding.  Then more paint afterwards.

And now, "What Lies Beneath", a.k.a. the headlight peak:

(https://i.imgur.com/AQRNFzs.jpg)

Beneath the paint was bog.
Beneath the bog was a leaded repair.
Beneath the leaded repair was (i) a piece of galvanised sheet and (ii) a couple of oxy-welded repairs.
And beneath the galvanised sheet and the welded patches was about half an inch of body schutz.

There must have been a time when lead-wiping was the norm for body repairs, and this new-fangled polyester filler was for fine finishing before paint.

There's a few hours' work here.  Most of it will probably be in the inner section where the headlamp bucket goes. The outer part looks gruesome, but will probably fix (relatively) easily.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: DJ on May 09, 2020, 05:08:31 PM
Nice job around the bumper mount Rob.
The headlight peak has a lot of history! Good to see it will all be replaced by someone dedicated to produce quality work. Looking forward to see what you come up with protect the peak from filling in future. I have thought about fitting a shaped mud flap to let the moisture & grim slide down the inner guard instead of forcing itself into the peak. That's a far as it's gone so far though.


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on May 09, 2020, 05:50:58 PM
Lead was used to fill rust holes in the tailgate reveal on my ute, with wee bit of bog in the spare wheel door reveal bottoms done later Iíd say. But the lead was used exclusively where it was used.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on May 09, 2020, 06:03:13 PM
I can't see that I'll be driving the car down muddy unsealed roads much, and in the event, a Gerni once home works marvels.

Mind you, I remember driving from Marree to William Creek when it rained, and another time from Birdsville to Innamincka via Haddon's Corner in the rain.  The car was just about sitting on the bump stops from all the mud in the guards.

Clay, you're right about wiping lead.  I thought that once it set and cooled down (a minute or so), you'd get out with the body file, shape the repair, then undercoat and paint.  No need for bog.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on May 09, 2020, 06:47:06 PM
I got about three wheel barrows of clay from under the EK215 after some paddock work one autumn up near Snowtown. Mostly in the front guards. Sat real low.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on May 10, 2020, 05:48:34 PM
More dis-covery.  I melted and wire-brushed the remaining body lead away, and decided to excise the oxy-welded patches, just to see what lay underneath.

(https://i.imgur.com/IskBPcg.jpg)

Yep.  The patches had been laid upon rusted-out areas and then welded in.

And when I tried to hammer the ridge back to its original profile, it split open.  Sure enough, attempting to weld the split was a fool's errand.  So.  The body file had obviously been taken to the headlight peak.  My repairs are going to be more extensive than I thought at first . . .

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on May 14, 2020, 05:41:40 PM
This "office work" can get quite involved, what with size, shape, curvature and other formatting options.

(https://i.imgur.com/6I1aiLx.jpg)

The unused piece of the Rare Spares RHF lower guard repair section was the right size for the headlight peak repair.  It was then a case of cutting and trimming to size, then putting the roll and peak in, and then making the surface convex (gently!).  The headlight surround is the best template, but its profile and the mudguard's profile didn't always agree.  The surround was offset towards the right at the bottom, so I widened the screw-hole and moved the speed-nut until the headlight surround was centred.  Then I was able to grind the leading edge of the repair section so it lined up with the headlight surround, and "rolled" the leading edge over.  Which disturbed the profile as seen from the front.  But the good thing about rolling the edge over is that it lends some rigidity to the repair section, and it didn't take too much effort to get the repair section to line up with the headlight surround.

So that's the bigger of the two outer headlight peak repair sections.  The inner section, with the flange for mounting the headlamp bucket, came next.

The "door that keeps giving" abruptly stopped giving, because I discovered bogged-up holes in the part I cut out.  The door was from an FC Special, and I'd reached the holes for the chrome strips.  But I had an old FJ front door that had seen better days.  My plan was to make a cylindrical section, and then "tuck-shrink" the headlight flange.  I had the wooden form to do it (a 9" diameter cylinder).  How hard can tuck-shrinking be?

"What's tuck-shrinking?", I hear you ask.  Google it.  You need a tool called a "tucking fork" (I am not making this up, Reverend Spooner), which you can make out of two old centre-punches welded side-by-side, with a T-handle welded onto the back.  You use the tucking fork to pucker the edge you want to fold over, and then bit by bit hammer the puckers down flat with hammer and dolly, then put the puckers in again, lather, rinse, repeat.

With thin sheet-metal, you can use round-nose pliers instead of a tucking fork.  But it's hard on the hands.  I got the flange to about 45 degrees, and then it got too hard.  As you hammer out the puckers, the metal shrinks, gets thicker, and gets harder to work.  So I got out with the angle grinder, put in a dozen or so nips, hammered the flange to shape, and welded the cuts.  Not as pretty.  Much easier.

(https://i.imgur.com/8iEpFba.jpg)

Then I reproduced the cutouts in the headlight flange by looking at the marks in the headlight bucket's gasket and grinding to suit.  And finally I relieved the places around the mounting holes where the speed-nuts go, lined the headlight bucket up and drilled the screw holes.

The plan is to cut away the rotten top half of the headlight mounting flange, which will give me clear access to the seams when I weld the outer peak repair into place.  When that's done I can splice in the inner section, trim to shape at the front, and weld in the "return" for the headlight peak.

What can possibly go wrong?

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on May 14, 2020, 08:29:35 PM
Clever work Rob. Hey donít the mounting screws tap into little spring tabs like the FB EK ones? Apologies to those in the know if Iím being a philistine in making this comparison with the obviously inferior younger siblings of the venerable FC.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on May 14, 2020, 09:33:01 PM
Clay,

Yes, the headlight mounts do have the spring tabs.  I'll enlarge the holes to the right size and install the tabs when the piece is welded in place.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: FireKraka on May 15, 2020, 09:18:46 AM
Great work Rob
Neil


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on May 15, 2020, 05:15:43 PM
"What could possibly go wrong?"

Not much.  Apart from it being 13 degrees, grey and drizzling . . .
The outer headlight peak repairs are now metal-glued in place.  Inner repair section and bridging-of-the-gap tomorrow.

Daytona 8 mm spot-weld drill works well, I am happy to report, and I haven't even broken the tip off it yet.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on May 17, 2020, 02:10:50 PM
Well, that was no trouble at all [\sarcasm].

(https://i.imgur.com/smd7Cjh.jpg)

Outer peak repair sections welded into place.  Headlight flange massaged into position and then welded.  But, as usual, the smaller pieces are the time-consuming ones.  To join the outer and inner repair sections took three smaller pieces.  It just seemed easier doing it that way.

And getting the headlight surround into the right position is a topic worthy of its own thread.

Next: rust converter, primer, epoxy enamel on the inside.

Rob


Title: Re: my8thholden Build
Post by: Errol62 on May 17, 2020, 05:24:02 PM
Tidy welds. They look continuous rather than individual spots.

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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on May 17, 2020, 07:10:06 PM
Yeah.  I put in tack welds every inch or so, then laid in a series of half-inch welds between them, then zipped up the remaining quarter-inch gaps.  I overlapped the ends of the welds, so that when dressed down, the seam looks continuous.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on May 18, 2020, 07:52:20 AM
Rob..Coming along nicely ,good work ,if you start a headlight surround thread ,we can contribute in a small way ,lets start with a A3 spreadsheet !!!!Vern


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on May 18, 2020, 05:30:52 PM
. . . wire-brushing the inside of the guard before rust-converting pinged a few more rust scales away, revealing holes.  Out with the welder and file again.  I think I've got them all coloured-in now.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: RET on May 23, 2020, 01:48:31 PM
That old door may have stopped giving, but this is the thread that keeps on giving.

Excellent work Rob, both the attention to detail on the Found Object, and the documentation of the process, the techniques and the tools for those that come after you.

You're an asset to this forum.

cheers
RET


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on May 23, 2020, 04:10:30 PM
The "Correcting the Mistakes of Others" Department -

The LHF guard didn't have the "difficult" bolt - the second from rear, the one that sits directly below the rear corner of the bonnet when it's open.  The hole had been seam-sealed up shut, which made me wonder . . .

This is what lay underneath when the guard was removed:

(https://i.imgur.com/Jbhqzuo.jpg)

A second hole had been drilled in the subframe skirt, which looked way out of whack.  After scraping the usual layers of dirt, body schutz, bitumen paint and sealer away, this is what I found:

(https://i.imgur.com/nH0j9yl.jpg)

A second hole had been drilled in the body also.  Between the body and the subframe skirt was a good-size lump of sealant, which looked original.  So I'm guessing that the car had been assembled with a bent subframe skirt.  Because when the car was built, Holden was supplying half the new car market in Oz, and the pressure would have been on to get as many Holdens down the production line as possible.  It would have taken too long to pull the car off the line to rectify the fault, and instead the big drill came out.

I can get the guard to fit properly either before I take the subframe off, or after I put it back on.  Before is better.  With the delicatest of instruments (12" multi-grips, Mister Hit and a piece of wood), I brought the subframe skirt back into alignment, and probably for the first time in 60+ years, these two screws are now in their correct places:

(https://i.imgur.com/IVXX8nb.jpg)

Here's the pile of crud I scraped off -

(https://i.imgur.com/DMfAIQN.jpg)

And here is what lay underneath.

(https://i.imgur.com/D3TPGUm.jpg)

No surprises really.  And that's a good-looking outer subframe leg too.  I think it's going to be rotisserie time very soon.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on May 23, 2020, 06:42:56 PM
The fun continues Rob. Will you brace the lower part of the car to do the sills or just get the gaps right and tack weld the doors shut? Presuming it needs inners as well as outer I suppose.
Cheers
Clay


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on May 23, 2020, 07:17:47 PM
Clay,

I broke all the rules with my last FC, it seems.  I laid the bare body shell down on a mattress, nearly rolled over on its side, to remove the outer sill and repair the inner.  Then when I was ready to fit the outer sill, I put the body back on the level, swung the doors, and tack-welded and self-tappered the sill in place when the gaps were right.  Then I removed the doors, put the body back on the mattress and put in the zillions of plug-welds at the bottom of the sill.

I'm going to repair the inner sills in place without replacing them.  At the very worst they'll to have the bottom inch or so (bend included) replaced, and fingers crossed, the body shell won't sag on the rotisserie with one outer sill removed.  A bare body shell is quite rigid and doesn't weigh all that much.

Suggested plan of attack:  outer subframe mounts and cowl repairs, No. 1 body crossmember rebuild, test refit of subframe, remove subframe, then front floors, rear floors, rear doglegs, then inner and outer sill, one side at a time.

Which reminds me: I'd better rebuild the front door hinges and get the front doors to swing right before replacing the outer sills.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on May 24, 2020, 02:11:31 PM
OK, so . . . I take to my chrome with a wire brush.  There wouldn't be many others who would do the same.

(https://i.imgur.com/Zz0hlak.jpg)

The grille, like everything else, needs work.  The lower grille bar has a few more holes in it than appeared at first sight.  This is going to be some fun.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on May 24, 2020, 07:44:20 PM
all the hidden challenges , yet they are typical of most of the cars on here when being dismantled after 60 yrs Ö vern


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on May 31, 2020, 04:45:36 PM
The lower grille bar's repaired.  A lot of holes to fill in, and two larger ones which I patched with sheet.  There's an art to repairing rust holes, but with a non-ferrous quenching block and patience, it's fairly straightforward if time-consuming.  Of course, your average sane person would just go and find a lower grille bar without rust holes.

(https://i.imgur.com/a16VWxr.jpg)

And your average sane person would not bother to repair the drip rail.
I repaired the drip rail.
Syllogisms, anyone?

And the grille frame had a handful of rust holes.  It was easier, though, because it's made of 16-gauge sheet.  The holes are welded, dressed and primered.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on May 31, 2020, 09:01:59 PM
Very satisfying Iím sure rob.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: 59wagon on June 06, 2020, 05:02:57 PM
Loving this thread Rob, itís very ejumakashional.

Cheers, John


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on June 06, 2020, 06:00:57 PM
I haven't been out with the camera in the past week, but -

The grille's reassembled.  I rust-convertered, primered and matt-blacked the underside of the lower grille bar, and gave the top side a quick coat of clear to preserve it.  I painted the bottom of the frame, and fish-oiled the rest of it.

The cowl vent's out.  I was expecting the usual struggle to get the control rod to unscrew from its fitting, but it only took gentle heating with a blowtorch, then multi-grips and an adjustable spanner.  And the drain around the vent is in pristine condition.  Y.F.B. . . .

(This is about as far as I got on my previous attempt at posting.  I leant the side of my left hand on the bottom left of the keyboard perhaps a little more than advisable, and all the text I typed vanished.  It was obviously a CTRL-something keystroke.)

The headlining's out.  It only took a couple of minutes' work to disabuse me of the notion that I might be able to re-use it.  It is so brittle I only had to look at it and it tore.  And previous experience told me to label the listing wires the moment I removed them.

The tar-paper sound deadener which was mostly sitting on the headlining instead of glued to the roof is now out.  It appears to have been stapled to the centre roof rail.  Big mud-wasp nest in the roof rail where the dome lamp went.

The C-pillars had been wadded full: of cotton waste on the left side and hessian/coconut fibre underlay on the right.  No idea what the purpose of that would have been.

And way back when, something heavy had been dropped on the roof about a foot in front of the rear window, then a really dodgy bog and spray putty repair was done.  With a sandbag on the roof and a dolly in hand, knocking the dent out was simple.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on June 06, 2020, 07:48:07 PM
Photos or it didnít happen Rob.

My FB ute had latex foam stuffed in the B-pillars. Go figure.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on June 06, 2020, 09:22:18 PM
I'd better make it happen, then.
Tomorrow.
It'll be light outside.


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: FireKraka on June 07, 2020, 09:29:51 AM
I found foam in the B pillars of my EK Ute too Clay.
Neil


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on June 07, 2020, 11:48:33 AM
Because descriptions using words are passe -

(https://i.imgur.com/WZcLrag.jpg)

Cowl with vent removed.  This is a major source of worry gone, as I don't have to repair anything here.

The rear bumper had been pushed into the body on the right hand side.  A little traction here and there . . .

(https://i.imgur.com/nT8GInA.jpg)

For the safety-conscious, I should advise that I stood beside the rear quarter panel during this operation, so that if things went pear-shaped, I wouldn't be in the firing line.  It didn't take that much effort to pull the bumper back into position, all things considered.

(https://i.imgur.com/6IMlt73.jpg)

And the rear bumper is now removed.  The body-to-bumper rubbers are complete, but perfectly rigid, so will need replacing.  RHR lower quarter is a mess.

I've now got the car on ramps, and I'm underneath with a MAP-gas torch on the subframe bolts and the exhaust pipe clamps.  Surprisingly, the nut for the left outer subframe bolt still has six sides.  That's a good thing.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on June 07, 2020, 12:12:17 PM
Thanks for the photos, we love photos. Your words are very good too of course.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on June 07, 2020, 06:42:31 PM
I spent the afternoon under the car, fighting with threaded fasteners that didn't want to let go.

The nuts for all four lower subframe bolts loosened and unscrewed.  A six-point 1/2"-drive 1/2" AF socket is a godsend.
The front half of the fuel pipe is out.  I'll most likely have to replace the fuel and brake pipes.  It'll make the blue-slip people a lot happier if I present the car with new pipes.
The tailpipe is out.  I persuaded it out of the muffler with a MAP gas torch and many words of encouragement, some even printable.
The rear spring shackle nuts have been removed.
The front stabilizer bar is out.  I'd never before seen a sway bar post made of an M8x200 coach bolt and old front crossmember spacer tubes.  I reached deep into the store of fricatives to disassemble that piece of engineering genius.
All four shock absorbers are out.  The rears were those bloody Superlift things, and they had seized up solid.  Is it any wonder that the top mounts had torn out?  And for the first time, I used a hacksaw to remove a front shock absorber.  I unscrewed the Nylock nut most of the way off the stud, when the top bit with the flats sheared off flush with the nut.  The lower mounting plates for the front shocks need some attention from Mister MIG.
And the rear springs' front spring eye bolts have defeated me.  A few medium-size blows with a sledgehammer, and they didn't budge.  I heated the inner flanges with the MAP gas torch, and went in harder with the b.f.h, and the bolts didn't budge.

Not in a good mood at the moment.

What's the secret for stubborn rear spring bolts?  More heat?  Bigger hammer?  All of the above, plus a big dolly on the inside hanger, the one where the bolt head fits?  I could slice through the bolts with an angle grinder, but that still leaves the problem of how to remove the bolt head from the hanger . . .

Should I mount the shell on the rotisserie with the rear axle still in place, and then resume operations against the spring eye bolts when I'm not flat on my back under the car?

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on June 07, 2020, 07:41:39 PM
Biggest spade bit you can get in your hammer powered impact driver. Get it turning. Plenty of crc. Once turning put 18V or air gun on it with one hand and hammer the other end. They will come.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on June 07, 2020, 07:44:46 PM
Leaving the rear axle in will make it difficult to set up as the arse end will be bottom heavy, and just heavy to manoeuvre in general. You can still get the axle off without removing the springs maybe an option.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on June 08, 2020, 07:15:10 AM
Hey Rob ..You really have been into it ,lying on your back also ,least its not raining ..You have brought to my attention with your last post ,the rear body to bumper rubbers ,none on my car when dismantled,no old evidence of fitment ..IE screw holes,were they on all versions of FC's ? ,could you post close up images and esp how they attach ,cant see them in Rares or Old Auto catalogues either ,if I make them I will make you a pair also ,if you wish to post on here that's OK or if you rather just send to my phone that's fine ..0405 703 413 ..Vern ..


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on June 08, 2020, 08:17:52 AM
Iíll save you the trouble Rob(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200607/fdb72fe23e9a0afd9132a119a10f8919.jpg)
These are new ones supplied by Maco on here, recently fitted to my FB ute. They have an L profile, the end of which is crimped under the U section sheet tac welded around the base of the rear corners.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on June 08, 2020, 11:59:46 AM
New day.  Car higher off ground.  Using a second b.f.h. as a dolly, I got the right hand rear spring eye bolt moving with about the usual amount of effort: a few firm to heavy hits.

The left side still refuses to budge.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on June 08, 2020, 02:43:55 PM
The heavy artillery came out.

(https://i.imgur.com/3mn2no5.jpg)

I figured I needed more height so I could swing the hammer not lying down, more reaction mass behind the spring hanger, and an easier target to hit.

The reaction mass and height came as a package: an 850 mm length of rail, which weighs at a guess 40 kg.  The next fun bit (which took all morning) was lifting the car's rear up high enough to get the rail in place when upright.  I maneuvred the rail in and G-clamped it securely in place.  And I could swing the hammer from a seated position.

The easier target was going to be a length of 1" round bar with a 7/16" UNF nut welded to the end, so I didn't have to swing the hammer under the sill.

But I tried a few hits anyway.  And then when I was properly laying into it, the sound of the blows changed to a duller sound.  Aha.  That's the sound of success.

I'd better drive the bolt most of the way out.  And it'd be a shame not to waste all that access under the car's rear, so I'll disconnect the handbrake cable and the fuel line from the tank.  And I vaguely remember Dad telling me that you have to remove the brass fitting from the front of the tank, otherwise you can't lift the tank out.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on June 08, 2020, 04:59:41 PM
Sod's Law of Immovable Objects:  Any bolt that refuses to budge will become a loose fit when a nut is mooshed tight on the thread.  I tried unscrewing the nut off the spring eye bolt, and the bolt, which only a few minutes before was stuck fast, turned in the spring hanger.  I moved the rail away, and drove the bolt back into place so I could unscrew the nut.  Heating the nut to dull red helped.  And then I could drive the bolt out again with a hammer of ordinary size.

The rear half of the fuel line is out.  The pipe union at the tank outlet is out (thought I was going to shear it off for a while, but it loosened).

The handbrake cable is free from its attachment points, and the gearbox crossmember is out.

And the car is back on its feet.

I plan to take the front springs out while the motor and gearbox are still in the car.  Removing the springs from a front suspension is no fun when there's no car attached.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on June 08, 2020, 09:01:18 PM
You going to re-use those spring eye nuts and bolts Rob?


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on June 09, 2020, 10:19:29 AM
Clay,

The only way I can re-use the one from the left is if I weld it up and grind it down.
Damn.  You've tempted me now.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on June 09, 2020, 06:43:00 PM
Rob...Maco TXT me the rubbers he had made , I didn't read about those he has on this forum ,I am weighing up putting them on now as the rear of the car is finished ,not real keen on disturbing the new paint ..and I see Clay has posted details on them ..thanks again fellas ...Vern 


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on June 09, 2020, 07:43:27 PM
Vern,

If you're missing the channel that the bumper-to-body rubber sits in, it shouldn't be that much effort to fold it up out of thin sheet and then pop-rivet it in place.  It'd be a shame to weld near fresh paint.

Or maybe you could use a narrow retaining strip and send self-tapping screws through the strip and rubber into the body.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on June 09, 2020, 07:56:23 PM
I wouldnít bother if you have the bumper on Vern. Doubt youíll miss them.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on June 10, 2020, 07:39:59 AM
Gents ..Rob the chanel is there on the car intact ,dumb me I just didn't question during rebuild why was it there , more haste less speed Vern ..there is always mud flaps ,they have been on the car previously and we knew that and I have left that option open ,Steve is also reluctant to re visit under the rear bumper ,and Maco said he wouldn't drill or rivett or anything like that ..so its status quo .as Errol 62 says wont miss something you've never had...
Just a bit of trivia ,seeing we are not sitting around and talking , a was talking to the bloke who bought the Hillman Hunter I restored ,he said I bought a Holden ,takes his stable to 9 mixed make cars , its a HZ sedan with 14,000kms ,came from Tech College in Hobart ,used as instruction vehicle for apprentices ..there is even Government shed finds ..stay well Vern


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on June 13, 2020, 01:18:44 PM
The fuel tank is out.

(https://i.imgur.com/LMb1jd9.jpg)

As usual, no trouble at all.  Seven of the ten screws loosened, three didn't want to let go.  I broke my No.2 Phillips impact driver bit on one, and then elected to use heat instead . . . and the three stubborn screws moved.  Unscrewing the nut from the tank sender terminal was another exercise in patience.

Hydraulic jack under the tank to separate it from the boot floor, and then I could lift it out.  The flange isn't rusty; but I wish I could say the same about the rest of the boot floor.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on June 13, 2020, 05:53:51 PM
Threaded Fasteners Chapter LXXVIII: Tie Rod Ends

(https://i.imgur.com/GWAJTk1.jpg)

The rail has made another appearance.  I have never had as much grief separating a tie rod end as with this one . . . but I will reserve judgement until I've separated the right hand one.

And then I mooshed up the threads on the nut and had to run a 1/2" UNF tap through to restore them.  The tie rod end itself is good, it just needs a dust seal.  You used to be able to buy replacements for the OEM tie rod ends - are they still available?

Oh yeah . . . I took the front spring out and replaced it with my patent Infiniti-Rate version (a 4x2, 6" long).  The front spring has a broken coil, as expected.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: mcl1959 on June 13, 2020, 06:16:51 PM
Rob, you just need a bigger hammer!
By the way, is that a drum retainer clip on the wheel stud?
They are rare things to find.

Ken


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on June 13, 2020, 07:02:06 PM
Ken,

No, it's not a drum retainer clip - probably an errant cobweb.
Bigger hammer?  It seems I more often need one (1) ACME 500 lb. anvil, although preferably not dropped from a great height.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on June 13, 2020, 07:11:24 PM
The rubber boots are available from time to time Rob but I reckon they are about the same price as a new outer tie rod end with rubber included.

I must have been lucky with tie rod end outer tapers on my ute. Just jacked up and support with a stand under the steering arm. Wind out the castleated nut and bfh. Ping, off she popped, both sides. Youíre going to apply heat you devil.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on June 13, 2020, 07:50:33 PM
Clay,

How you describe separating tapers is my normal experience.  I was thinking of heat, but didn't like the idea of heating suspension components.

Didn't think of putting jack stand under the steering arm though.  Did try dolly supported by hydraulic jack, and got nowhere.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on June 13, 2020, 07:54:44 PM
Isnít there a separator claw tool you can use if you want to be mechanical Rob?


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on June 14, 2020, 01:43:24 PM
The Threaded Fasteners Wars Parts CXXIV and CXCI -

The RH tie rod end's taper let go with the help of B.F.H. and the rail.

RH lower outer pivot bolt next.  For some reason, a replacement had been installed from the rear of the control arm, so that the grease nipple (if there had been one) was at the rear rather than the front.  The nut was little better than finger-tight.  Cue false sense of optimism.  The bolt didn't want to move.  Not with a socket ratchet.  Not with me leaning off a torque wrench.  In cases like this, I usually put a jack under the free end of a ring spanner and lift.  Which I did.  I thought the bolt began to move, but it didn't feel right by hand.  Heat around the bolt head and try again.  It seemed easier.  Cue second sense of false optimism.  The bolt head broke off, leaving the pivot bolt still firmly stuck inside the control arm.

Brief pause for labio-dental fricatives.

Options:

(1) Remove king pin from steering knuckle support, move brake assembly and steering knuckle out of the way, and cut through the pivot bolt with angle grinder, taking care not to damage the control arm in the process.  OK.  So I can remove the front spring, but then what?  There's still a section of pivot bolt stuck in the lower control arm.  And who knows what dramas await, particularly the removal of the cotter pin from the steering knuckle support?

(2) Get out with Mister MIG and weld a nut onto the protruding length of pivot bolt at the front.  Encourage the stuck bit of the bolt, which is at the rear, to move with the MAP gas torch and a few hammer blows.

I decided to pursue option 2.  I think I've managed to get the bolt to move a few degrees of rotation, but the weld has just let go.  I ground the weld off and laid a bigger one in.

So far, yet another tactical victory for the threaded fasteners . . .

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on June 14, 2020, 06:12:43 PM
The Threaded Fasteners Wars Part CXCIX:

My bigger weld came unstuck also.  I ground it off and put a yet more substantial weld in.  It burned down, fell over and sank into the swamp.  No.  The third one stayed oop.

I wondered if taking the spring tension off the bolt would make it easier to unscrew.  I had a length of threaded rod which I put in where the shock absorber goes, and cranked it up until the suspension came off the rebound stop.  With the load off, I could tell that the upper outer pivot was flogged out.  It had enough free play for me to discover that the lower outer pivot bolt wasn't seized in the control arm (like I thought), but in the steering knuckle support.  So I redirected the heat onto the bush in the support.

The absence of a grease nipple in the pivot bolt was significant after all . . . this was a complete lubrication failure.  The bolt could only turn the angle corresponding to the suspension travel.  Bit by bit I got the range of motion to increase, but it behaved like a thread had picked up inside, which meant a couple of hours of turning the bolt back and forth, alternating between heat and WD-40.  And then -

(https://i.imgur.com/gAH2uWF.jpg)

Sure enough, you can see where the thread picked up, about five turns in from the left hand side.

I pulled the RH front spring out (broken coil also) and ratted my bin of clapped-out suspension parts for a lower outer pivot bolt.  I fitted the patent Infiniti-Rate front spring and sat the car back on its feet.

Let's just see what surprises are in store next.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on June 14, 2020, 10:05:01 PM
Sounds like youíre in front then?!


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on June 21, 2020, 12:25:22 PM
Exploded Diagram (II)

(https://i.imgur.com/xuRq72i.jpg)

Motor's out.  Now I have to work out a strategy for dropping the front suspension and unbolting the subframe, before wheeling in the rotisserie at the front.  I'd probably better take the fixed glass out too.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on June 21, 2020, 05:41:49 PM
I took the fixed glass out and unbolted the front guards, had a think and then decided, "next weekend."  The car still rolls, steers and stops.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on June 27, 2020, 05:12:14 PM
The Threaded Fasteners Wars Parts CCVIII and CCIX: Rear Spring U-bolt Nuts and Tailpipe Clamp Bolt.

The rear spring U-bolt nuts let go with MAP gas and swearing on the left hand side; and with wire brush and WD-40 on the right hand side.  The difference is that the right hand side of the underbody is coated with greasy road grime, whereas the left side isn't.  Is it a coincidence that the crankcase breather pipe's on the right hand side?

The tailpipe clamp bolt just turns in the spare wheel well.  So far it has defeated me.

Next:  Boot Hinge Spring Pin Removal.  I can amend RET's instruction sheet as follows -

Removal:

1.  Remove boot lid.  Remove boot mat.  Drain and remove fuel tank.  (It's a lot easier to sit in the boot with your feet on the ground than assume fetal position inside the boot.)  Remove spare wheel clamp assembly.
2.  Lift boot hinge pin retaining tab with screwdriver, remove hinge pin and boot hinge assembly.
3.  Mark and centre-punch the centre of the spring pin.  Drill a pilot hole at least 5/16" deep.  Enlarge pilot hole with a 1/2" drill so that the outside of the 1/2" hole is 1/16" deep.
4.  With a hacksaw, cut through the hinge spring post flush with the support panel.  Dress the rear face flush with a file.
5.  Using a 1/2" diameter round file, enlarge the 1/2" hole just enough to admit the adjustable hinge spring pin.  Or use a 14 mm step drill.

So.  I thought that maybe I'd have the rear axle out, and the back end of the car on the rotisserie.
No.  The rear mounting brackets need rework.  But seeing as how there's a rotten section at the right hand rear corner right above the bumper bracket, I'm thinking about a pipe-and-trammel arrangement to go on the rear spring hangers instead.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on June 27, 2020, 07:27:43 PM
Put some tack welds on the coach head bolt head in the spare wheel well to stop it spinning Rob.
Why the need to mess with the hinge? Are they busted?
On my van I fixed the rotisseriemount with s bolt through the rear spring hanger, as well as the two bumperette iron mounts. They are (almost) in the ssame plane.

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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on June 27, 2020, 07:53:21 PM
Clay,

Having commercials, you are spared the dubious joys of busted boot hinge spring posts.  I "only" have to replace the passenger's side (the driver's side ain't broke, so I won't fix it . . . )
Bumperette mounts would be a good option for the rotisserie brackets, but it's a sedan . . .

Welding the coach bolt head to the spare wheel well is one option, or some steel strip with a 1/2" hole in it.

The pipe-and-trammel arrangement's taking shape, mentally anyway - I've probably got enough 1" water pipe, and perhaps even two short lengths of 1-1/2" to go over the 1" pipe.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on June 27, 2020, 09:17:53 PM
The bumperette mounts are the same as sedan bumper iron mount holes Rob.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on June 28, 2020, 08:15:27 PM
It's dark outside, and it's raining lightly.  But my backyard metal fabrication project has yielded results:

(https://i.imgur.com/yDHpY4x.jpg)

The distance between the spring hangers is 947 mm, about 945 between the rubbers.  I cut off a 940 length of 1" water pipe.  I had some M12 nuts, of the style that looks a bit like a lampshade, or a nut with integral washer.  The cone bit of the nut sat very nicely on the end of the pipe.  I bevelled the pipe ends and welded the nuts in place.  Then I cut off two 100 mm lengths of 1-1/2" pipe, drilled the pipe and welded two M10 nuts onto each.  Then I got two 1" x 3/16" steel strips, curled one end up a quarter turn, and drilled a 31/64" hole in the other end to take an M12 bolt.  I welded the strips onto the 100 mm pipe sections, slid the 1-1/2" pipe sections onto the 1" pipe, and put the 1" pipe between the spring hangers.  Two M12 x 80 bolts with flat washers went through the spring shackle rubbers and into the nuts at the ends of the pipe.  Then it was a case of sliding the "tongues" of the rotisserie onto the T-bar and picking up the mounting holes on the 1-1/2" pipe.  It came together quite well.

This photo shows the arrangement in more detail, and even the rotten section next to and behind the bumper bracket.  The rotten section is why I decided to go with the pipe-and-trammel setup:  I can move the attachments laterally on the cross-pipe so they don't get in the way when I'm repairing rust in the car's rear.  Brackets attached where the bumper bracket bolt-holes don't allow me to do that.

(https://i.imgur.com/b4hwrlj.jpg)

And this is what the trammel looks like from the front, with the M10 clamping bolts.

(https://i.imgur.com/Czo0EUQ.jpg)

And then I unbolted the rotisserie from the trammels, moved it out of the way, and rolled the car back into its resting place in the car port.  Another weekend gone . . .

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: mcl1959 on June 28, 2020, 08:55:47 PM
Ingenious Rob, a weekend well spent

Ken


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: camxsmith on June 29, 2020, 09:22:57 AM
Great idea


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on June 29, 2020, 08:34:04 PM
Rob.straight forward , inexpensive ,effective ,way to go !!!well done Vern ..


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on July 04, 2020, 05:34:18 PM
Another day's work, and this is all I have to show for it.

(https://i.imgur.com/4Adobrb.jpg)

Guide wire inside the transverse roof member, guide wire inside the RH A-pillar.  Body wiring harness removed, and just like before, I'll have to replace the fried dome lamp wire.  The main wiring harness made cracking sounds as I fed it back into the cabin - hopefully "just" the harness tape, rather than the PVC insulation cracking.

A temporary cease-fire in the Threaded Fasteners Wars: the front door hinge screws loosened without much effort.

Front seat's out.  Doors are off.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: camxsmith on July 05, 2020, 01:29:27 PM
Mate any work on the car is time well spent and worth doing ..  Keep up the great work  ;D


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on July 05, 2020, 07:38:41 PM
Rear Axle Removal:

Using an ACME skyhook, suspend rear of car.  With two hydraulic jacks, raise rear axle enough to enable removal of rear wheels and admit a furniture dolly.

(https://i.imgur.com/beIeA5d.jpg)

Lower the rear of car and the rear axle bit by bit to sit the rear axle on the furniture dolly.  Drive out the rear spring front eye bolts.

(https://i.imgur.com/rjb4LXJ.jpg)

Roll the rear axle assembly out from the rear.

(https://i.imgur.com/s9BC4ti.jpg)

Remove U-bolt nuts, shock absorber plates, U-bolts and rear springs.  Label rear springs for side and lay over the top of the rear axle.  Wheel the rear axle out of the way.  Bolt up the rotisserie (rear section).







Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on July 05, 2020, 07:40:37 PM
Oops.  Too quick on the trigger finger.

Rotisserie attached at the rear.

(https://i.imgur.com/Yrnsjg4.jpg)

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on July 05, 2020, 07:59:39 PM
Now I can turn my attention to the front.

Disconnect the front brake hoses, unbolt the idler arm support, remove Pitman arm from steering box.  Undo the front crossmember bolts.  Jack the car up by the front subframe.  Put a couple of jack stands under the (very dodgy) no. 1 body crossmember.

(https://i.imgur.com/tQhHU74.jpg)

Knock the "Infiniti-Rate" front springs out with a b.f.h.  Remove the hydraulic jack.  Wheel the front suspension out complete.  Replace the front crossmember bolts and spacer tubes in their original locations.

(https://i.imgur.com/Z6yfVXn.jpg)

Fiddly work on the inside.  I hadn't removed the top steering column cover on the firewall.  I only noticed that when I tried to remove the column.  Minor delay, then - steering column removed.

Pedals next.  Brake pipe distribution block and brake master cylinder next, being slow and careful so as not to butcher the brake pipe nuts.  You have to remove the master cylinder pushrods to get the pedal set out.  But the firewall insulation has to come out more or less at the same time as the pedal set.  Swing the pedal set downwards at the front, then depress the clutch pedal all the way to get the overcentre spring out of the way of the firewall insulation.  And then there's just enough room for the pedal set to clear the dash brace.

(https://i.imgur.com/IXhln2I.jpg)

Rob





Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ekute on July 05, 2020, 08:07:45 PM
Great write up Rob, too much work for me!


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on July 05, 2020, 08:26:52 PM
Which just leaves the front subframe.  The four bolts underneath came out with "encouragement" from a hammer and drift.  Getting a spanner onto the bolt head and turning the bolts during removal aids the process.  The self-tappers on the subframe skirts let go, except for one, which took persuasion with the MAP gas torch.  Then the six upper bolts, and then some deft levering with the Auld Persuader to break the subframe free top and bottom.

(https://i.imgur.com/6Yl2AXg.jpg)

Note toolbox acting as ballast.

I "walked" the subframe away on its legs, and then brought the front section of the rotisserie near.  This was another of those things where it looked OK from a distance, but the closer I got, the more it didn't want to go.  By dumb luck, the attaching brackets were at nearly the same height as the rotisserie's axis, which meant that I couldn't bolt the rotisserie up directly.

Then in mating the two halves of the rotisserie (tie members underneath) things appeared badly out of whack at the rear.  The vertical member had taken on a distinct inwards lean.  The "leg" of the T with the third castor is only attached with two bolts.  When you put the load of a body shell on the rotisserie, all the bending moment is taken by these two poor bolts.  I co-opted a hydraulic jack to sit on the "T" member and jacked up the pipe (between the spring hangers) to get the load off these bolts.  Then I found that if I put one of the pins in the main vertical member and jacked up the hydraulic ram, the sagging went away.  So this design of rotisserie requires load to be taken by the hydraulic ram always, otherwise it sags.  Major design flaw . . .

It was a similar deal at the front.  I jacked up the hydraulic ram, which allowed me to attach to the mounting brackets, then put the stay pin in at a convenient hole, and then jacked the ram up more to stop the sag.

(https://i.imgur.com/H5YTHZU.jpg)

As you can tell, it was now dark; and I was running out of energy and patience.  But the whole show held together well enough to wheel the shell back into the carport and take the load off the rotisserie with jack stands.

I need to re-design the front attaching brackets so the pick-up point is about a foot lower than at present.  Then I'll be able to get the roll axes front and rear to the same height.  And to stop the sag I need to put in a pair of stay members between the vertical and the leg of the "T" (front and rear), dimensioned to clear both the hydraulic ram and the rotating part of the framework.

Which will mean unbolting the rotisserie from the body.  After all the time it took to bolt it up.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on July 05, 2020, 10:58:10 PM
Outstanding progress. Here is a photo to contemplate.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200705/d69ebdb0da7a0481b8fe58b1f2dc1ba5.jpg)
On my EK van I have height adjustable axis. The centre is set 25mm below bottom bonnet hinge bolt hole, bearing in mind the van has a raised roof so bit higher centre of gravity.
Just welded nuts to square tube and bolts for clamping, but youíve seen my set up.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on July 05, 2020, 11:47:27 PM
I can reverse the mounts and get the axis lower if required.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on July 06, 2020, 10:52:26 AM
Clay,

Yours is a simpler rotisserie setup, and better because it's simpler.  I'm losing my EK-memory, so tell me - where the bonnet hinges attach to the firewall, do the bolts point fore and aft?  That'd make for a simpler mounting bracket.

On the subject, I just took a look at the Canberra FX-FJ club magazine for July.  Featured was an FJ van under restoration on a rotisserie.  The rotisserie was of the same general design as mine, and a piece of 25x25 square tube had been welded between the upright and the leg of the "T" to brace it.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on July 06, 2020, 02:21:33 PM
Aye-aye skipper, fore and aft. I actually welded two lengths of two inch galv water pipe either side, between the front and rear stands, as well as diagonal bracing.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: fcwrangler on July 07, 2020, 06:57:24 PM
Iím with Clay, the simple designs work best. I used two supercheap engine stands mounted with cut down bonnet hinges and adapted fear bar irons and 50x50 tie beams for support. I have seen the type of  rotisserie you have and the guys using them werenít impressed.


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on July 12, 2020, 11:45:27 AM
How To Make a Dugout Canoe, Step 1: First select a stout tree.

The parallels between this folk-wisdom parable and restoring Holdens are obvious.

I've bought a Holden.  It needs a complete strip-down and rebuild.  It would be convenient if I could turn the body shell over to perform structural repairs.  I'll get a rotisserie.  Rotisserie needs extra bracing for rigidity.  Design the braces, so that the rotating parts don't foul on the stationary parts, and so that the braces clear the hydraulic ram.  Make the braces and mounting brackets.  Discover that the members are 50x70, but are oriented differently.  Dig up some 25x10 steel flat bar and cut to size in order to space 50 mm out to 70 mm.  Line the parts up, mark up locations, remove paint, fire up Mister MIG.

(https://i.imgur.com/jXPb350.jpg)

That's one done.  As an aside, every workplace needs a sheet-metal shop.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on July 12, 2020, 01:07:04 PM
Hard to believe they didnít build any diagonal bracing in to such a fancy set up. Iíd still like to see the two stands joined at the base, so they canít move independently.

Starting point for shell centre of gravity for a sedan is the level of the fuel filler hole. Seems low but then the bottom of the shell is where all the boxing is, using 18# sheet a lot of it.

Will be an absolute joy to work on once you get it sorted.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on July 12, 2020, 04:16:19 PM
Yeah.  It's a curious mix of the dodgy and the precision-engineered.  The inner pipe for the horizontal axis has machining marks where it's been turned to size, and the pipe it turns in has been sleeved with nylon (perhaps).  But yet the engineer who designed the whole show decided not to provide the bracing which I've just put in.  And the moving vertical member runs on rollers; but the rotating T part has 4 mm clearance in the cross-head.  (Which I'm going to take up with greased pieces of 2 mm sheet.)

Here is the second rotisserie braced.  Minor oops:  I only made up four brackets instead of eight, so I went to Bunnings and got a couple of 340 x 40 x 3.5 "mending plates" (zinc-plated, even), drilled them and cut them to size.

(https://i.imgur.com/BbW8v0C.jpg)

The rotisserie's not complete, because I need to disassemble it to get it past the body shell in the carport, where I can reassemble it.

After reassembly, I am happy to report that it lifts the rear of the shell easily, with no sagging.  Yay!

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on July 12, 2020, 10:41:41 PM
👍👍


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on July 18, 2020, 04:14:52 PM
Today's pleasant task: cleaning the subframe.

(https://i.imgur.com/JltbozJ.jpg)

Once all the grease and dirt is removed, I get a much better idea of what lies beneath.  The right-hand outer leg, for example:

(https://i.imgur.com/b65ZZvk.jpg)

This is your classic farm-grade repair.  The RH inner leg looks almost sound - maybe one or two pinholes.

The LH inner leg:

(https://i.imgur.com/0Vyu9Z8.jpg)

This repair even has a few lengths of MIG wire sticking out near the engine mount bracket.

And the LH outer leg:

(https://i.imgur.com/Q1qi9lR.jpg)

Even though it's got gaping holes, I feel I can work with this one more easily - it hasn't had a previous repair.

Now the tie member and LH "dumb iron":

(https://i.imgur.com/CzeXbys.jpg)

This is about what you'd expect, really.  And note bonus holes in the front of the skirt.

This is where the three right hand legs come together near the steering box:

(https://i.imgur.com/81msm8k.jpg)

And similarly, on the passenger's side:

(https://i.imgur.com/0Mop5Fc.jpg)

There's a couple of months of weekends ahead of me, just on the front subframe.  I started to take the engine mount bracket off on the driver's side, and as I was undoing the second bolt, the subframe made creaking sounds, and a gap opened up between the inner leg and engine mount bracket.  The repair to the RH outer leg has distorted it, so the engine mount bracket bolts went back in.  I was hoping to make a jig for the subframe legs; but the best jig will be the body, even if the no.1 body crossmember is rotten.

The question of whether the inner and outer leg bolt holes are collinear still remains.  It's probably best to determine that from the body, instead.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on July 18, 2020, 08:51:15 PM
Yes and yes. Bull dust and moisture have rotted many an inner subframe skirt. It wasnít just farmers either. Farmers used oxy mostly. My mates HT wagon had 1/2Ē plating arc stitched around the rusted near side lower legs. This in 1980 when the car was ten years old!!


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on July 19, 2020, 07:57:00 PM
If, then, I'm going to use the body as the alignment jig for the subframe legs, I need to be able to attach and remove the subframe, preferably without removing the rotisserie at the front.  This rather constrains which attachment points I use, and the bonnet hinge bolt holes became the preferred choice.

Down to Bunnings for some 40x40x3 galvanised right-angle section.  Cut, bend, mark up, drill, file holes, bolt to body; measure, cut, mark up, cut, bend, drill, saw, relieve, weld; line up, mark, grind off zinc, line up again, tack weld, remove from body, go nuts with the welder, reinstall on body.

(https://i.imgur.com/B8dvOOB.jpg)

(Crappy focus, unfortunately)  It's not complete yet.  I have yet to put the tabs in to bolt it up to the rotisserie's rotating T-piece.  The rotisserie will be as close as I can get it to the firewall, so that (fingers crossed) I can tip the shell upside down and put the subframe on around the rotisserie.  And maybe 135 degrees will work too.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on July 19, 2020, 08:15:53 PM
Good one, yes its essential. I used the subframe as a jig when I replaced my floor with Hydramatic floor cut. I hadnít anticipated this but happily only a bit of clearancing was required to fit the subframe. I did so with the car upside down and a ratchet strap from the rear body to the radiator support and a fistful of Phillips head screw drivers.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on July 20, 2020, 08:18:29 AM
Gees Rob ,you will have to go back to work to get a break ..


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Longman on July 20, 2020, 08:38:26 AM
Same. I used subframe as a jig when replacing my entire floor pan, then used the floor as a jig when replacing the subframe legs. Now it all slots together with little effort.


Good one, yes its essential. I used the subframe as a jig when I replaced my floor with Hydramatic floor cut. I hadnít anticipated this but happily only a bit of clearancing was required to fit the subframe. I did so with the car upside down and a ratchet strap from the rear body to the radiator support and a fistful of Phillips head screw drivers.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on July 25, 2020, 06:18:38 PM
Another day wasted productively spent with the drill press, angle grinder and Mister MIG.  The lifting frame from last weekend needed to have a couple more brackets attached.  Inspiration came from Brett027's "Wilma" thread over at FB/EK.  And it helps to have a sheet-metal shop at work, where I can get offcuts of square and rectangular steel tube.

Cut two 150 mm lengths of 50x75 tube to slip over the cross-arm of the "T", drill and weld on M10 nuts.  Cut two 80 mm lengths of 25 square, with a quadrant cut out at the end, to take ~35 mm lengths of 1" water pipe.  Weld pipe to 25 square, then weld the 25 square to the 50x75 tube.  Cut 4 off, 40 mm lengths of 40x40x3 right angle, and drill clearance holes for M10 bolts.  Weld two of the brackets to the lifting frame, and drill two M10 clearance holes in the lifting frame for the remaining two brackets.  Lube three old sway bar rubbers with "You know you're soaking in it" and insert into the water pipe.  Slip the 50x75 tubes onto the "T" of the rotisserie, jack the body up to the right height, thread an M10 x 50 bolt through the right-angle, the sway bar rubbers and the other bracket.  Tighten the nut on the through bolt until the bolt holes on the other bracket and lifting frame line up.  Insert and tighten M10 bolt and nut.  Repeat for the other side.  Centre the rotisserie, and lift.

(https://i.imgur.com/nD88Wl3.jpg)

And it all just worked.  No flexing of the firewall.  No sagging of the rotisserie.  Quite an anticlimax.  As it is supposed to be.

I might be able to turn my attention to the subframe soon.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on July 25, 2020, 08:19:12 PM
👍👍

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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: 59wagon on July 25, 2020, 09:59:08 PM
Great outcome Rob.  I too find that I spend just as much time, (actually, a lot more time), making tools & stuff to do the job than doing the job itself.  Still satisfying though.
Enjoying your descriptions.

Madge's "You know you're soaking in it" brought back a memory and smile :)


(https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th/id/OIP.g1Y74Hf9Uvp_q7eJ4gGojAHaHG?w=180&h=180&c=7&o=5&pid=1.7)

Cheers,

John


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on July 26, 2020, 11:38:50 AM
John: You got the pop-culture reference.  Bonus.

The rotisseries needed some more tweaking.  Because the "T" has about 4 mm clearance in the cross-head, I decided to insert some spacers (2 mm galvanised sheet) to take the slop away.  Which led to some work with a file on the inside of the tube in the cross-head so the "T" ran freely with the spacers in place.  And then I found that the jack-screw-crank didn't point at the hole in the "T" like it was supposed to, but was about 1/4" off.  More work with a round file to move the hole.  And the thrust bearing was on the wrong side of the "T" to take the load, so I moved it to the other side.  The vertical strut that the cross-head rotates in has a roller down at the bottom end, badly in need of lubrication.  But lubrication didn't help it to turn.  Turns out that the roller was fouling on the inside of the strut.  I pulled the roller out and aimed a few good blows with the ball of a ball-pein hammer onto the marks where the roller was rubbing.

And now the jack-screw-crank doesn't bind when I wind it up; and the hydraulic ram lowers all by itself rather than needing a good push downwards.

So, you're right.  One spends a lot of time on the "infrastructure".

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on July 26, 2020, 12:51:11 PM
. . . since it's raining, I might as well hose the crud out of the subframe legs.

I think the car has spent quite some time in the country, judging by the quantity and colour of the dirt which came out of the inner legs, particularly.  They were blocked up solid.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on July 26, 2020, 10:33:20 PM
Youíll have a top notch rotisserie by the time this resto is complete rob 😆😆


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on August 02, 2020, 04:30:24 PM
I started repairs on the subframe this weekend.  The left front corner seemed like a good starting point, with a rotten section in the radiator support, and another rotten bit in the skirt.  But internal corners present their own challenges - like, for example, how to get an angle grinder in there to make the cuts.  I made a lot of use of a hacksaw blade and a file.  This is the repair to the radiator support:

(https://i.imgur.com/Z2rZBTc.jpg)

And this is the repair to the front lower corner of the skirt, largely hidden under the battery tray.

(https://i.imgur.com/EUvVp1i.jpg)

Next weekend's effort will be to replace the left hand "dumb-iron" with the Rare Spares section.  I'll do some exploratory surgery on the front tie member.  From the outside it appears as if the cancer is in the leftmost four inches or so.  That'll be in the "famous last words" category.  Let's just see . . .

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on August 08, 2020, 04:55:00 PM
It didn't bucket down with rain today as forecast, so I took advantage of the almost-clear weather to drill and grind some spot welds.  I discovered one positive about using a hacksaw (yes, slow, laborious) instead of an angle grinder to make the cuts: you can tell pretty quickly when the thing you're cutting sags.  This happened when I was making the cut on the inside corner of the LH "dumb-iron" and the tie member.  I had put planks across the skirts, mainly so I could sit the subframe upside-down on a tabletop.  To stop the sag I needed to brace the subframe: a couple of spacers between the planks and tabletop, then four G-clamps to hold everything in place.  That worked until I made the cut across the "dumb-iron".  When I cut through the return on the inside, there was a "ping", and the upper and lower halves of the member separated by a half-millimetre or so.  OK.  With the torsional rigidity gone, the left and right sides of the subframe went all knock-kneed.  A pair of jack-stands where the crossmember bolts on stopped the inward roll.

One always misses the last couple of spot welds, but when they were drilled through -

(https://i.imgur.com/3t2GGhk.jpg)

The usual amount of leaves, mud, rust scale and crud.  But the main box member (rearward of the cut) is in better shape than I'd feared.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on August 08, 2020, 07:53:02 PM
Fun fun.

Torsional rigidity and early Holden hmm...  At least youíre not doing an hq where the windscreen is a stressed member.

Is the crush section intact there where the subframe bolts run through Rob?


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on August 08, 2020, 08:42:17 PM
Yeah.  The section behind the cut isn't rusty.  It's grimy, and I brushed the loose stuff out with my fingers, enough to see that the crush tubes are intact.

But now that I've trussed the subframe to the table, I have to work out some clever method of getting the rust and dirt out of the box sections.  Probably something like the little hoe that a roulette croupier uses.  That and compressed air.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on August 08, 2020, 11:29:52 PM
On the ute I fired the pressure washer in there adnauseum, as well as a hooked fence wire piece, and my custom hose pipe vacuum nozzle, oh and compressed air. Followed up with fisholene delivered via schutz gun, tube and 360 nozzle.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on August 09, 2020, 07:31:36 AM
we also marveled how one frame member could be rusted in one area and yet sound a little further along , just the way the ingredients of rust would be trapped and do the oxidation work over time ..Vern


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on August 09, 2020, 03:55:43 PM
I raked all the dirt and scale out of the dumb irons and tie member.  Somewhat surprisingly, the tie member will only need the leftmost four inches replaced.  And the good thing about a "clear-vision" port at the triple junction where the idler arm bolts on is that I could see clear though, and it's all clean and rust-free inside.  I trimmed the Rare Spares dumb-iron to length (measuring from the sway-bar-bracket slot), and the rain drove me inside.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on August 09, 2020, 06:40:39 PM
Merciful god 👍


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on August 10, 2020, 06:41:18 AM
well our car is tucked away in the garage , I took opportunity to put 150kg of Pasture Booster out and pull up fireweed ..


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on August 16, 2020, 02:04:18 PM
The Rare Spares subframe tie member is a well-engineered replacement for the original.  If you replace the entire tie member with the Rare Spares one, it will fit well.  But I was hoping to slice off four inches of it and graft it in to the original.  That wasn't going to work, because the replacement has a different profile from the original.

Instead, I raided the sheet metal shop's offcuts bin for some 1.6 mild steel, and repaired my tie member.  The good thing about being able to see inside is it takes away the guesswork in deciding how much you need to cut out and replace.

With all the gunk cleaned out of the (upper) tie member, a few pinholes became visible.  Which turned into a postage-stamp-size repair.  Three repairs were needed for the tie member.  Here's the top section and the dumb-iron, ready to go.

(https://i.imgur.com/EYvPH65.jpg)

The black paint is Dy-Mark "Rust Preserver" in a pressure-pak.  It dries quickly, and once dry is quite hard.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on August 16, 2020, 03:45:14 PM
. . . slammed up shut.  And the sun hasn't even gone down yet.

(https://i.imgur.com/PR7iUyE.jpg)

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on August 16, 2020, 04:29:45 PM
Thatís the way. Iíve used dymark rust converter on the panel van A pillar bottoms, plenum etc.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Brett027 on August 18, 2020, 11:46:18 AM
I've used it too. However, I had real problems getting anything (acrylic lacquer, underbody spray on goop and seam sealer) to bond to it. I now only use it on things that are not going to require any further cover. It could have been my preparation, not sure.

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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on August 18, 2020, 01:33:16 PM
A point of clarification -

I got the name wrong.  It's called 'Rust Reformer'.  My bad.  Luther Calvin Zwingli.  Luther Calvin Zwingli.
I'll mainly use it for the interior surfaces of enclosed sections, and I'll see how it goes on the underbody when I need to paint over welds.

And also:  I have a Rare Spares FE-EK front subframe tie member surplus to requirements.  Anybody interested?

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Brett027 on August 18, 2020, 01:42:42 PM
Yes,  Rust Reformer- matt black is the stuff I was referring to. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200818/a6d232f206224b3b2edc77d69cf49ced.jpg)

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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on August 18, 2020, 05:47:54 PM
Like rob, I mainly used it in box sections I couldnít mechanically remove rust from and painted over with zinc rich primer while still tacky. Seemed to stick ok.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Brett027 on August 18, 2020, 06:06:23 PM
Yeah its a great paint, sticks well and goes on easy and finishes evenly. Where I ran into trouble was trying to go over it with something else. It was dry when I attempted over coats, so it might be like POR15 and must be overcoated when tacky.

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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on August 22, 2020, 04:25:21 PM
This is an exercise in working out how to do the job as I go along . . .
The "triple junction" near the idler arm support is quite rusty:

(https://i.imgur.com/qzxrpkv.jpg)

When fixing the "dumb-iron" I could see all the way through from behind the triple junction to the front tie member.  The top part of the main subframe rail has rusted away, leaving a void.  Not good.  The first step is to guess how much I need to cut away in order to fix the main rail, then make a paper pattern:

(https://i.imgur.com/L1ejCKa.jpg)

And it always takes mental effort to make the first cut on a repair I haven't attempted before.  But after a couple of cuts, some hacksaw work, and a lot of grinding, I have an idea of what has to be grafted back into place.

(https://i.imgur.com/Qxaannq.jpg)

Fortunately, the repair to the main rail isn't a complex shape to make, and it'll all be hidden; and, "it's only a ratty".  The repairs have to be solid.  They don't have to be pretty.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: camxsmith on August 22, 2020, 05:30:32 PM
Great work on the frame, I have the same work to perform on mine when I get up to there.  :P


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on August 23, 2020, 06:40:09 AM
Rob..What metal and thickness are you using to " patch" your triple junction ?


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on August 23, 2020, 01:52:50 PM
Vern,

For the horizontal box section: 1.6 mm cold-rolled mild steel; for the diagonal member that comes down from the A-pillar, 1 mm mild steel (an old FJ front door skin).

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on August 23, 2020, 04:12:50 PM
After cutting a couple more sections away so I could get access with the grinder and welder, here's what appeared:

(https://i.imgur.com/ssLQB4l.jpg)

I had to cut out and graft in new pieces on the side of the box-section (not too hard once the other rotten bits are removed), and then make a new top . . .

(https://i.imgur.com/AxrnEBd.jpg)

1.6 is a lot more forgiving to weld than stretched 1.0 . . .

Now it's time to put the other patches in.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: camxsmith on August 23, 2020, 05:17:47 PM
nice one... looks better already


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on August 23, 2020, 05:37:38 PM
. . . but I look at your cowl/inner sill repairs and floor pan replacements and think, "that joy awaits . . . "

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on August 23, 2020, 11:27:54 PM
Keep it up Rob. Great work.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on August 28, 2020, 04:55:20 PM
A little "w.f.h." to finish the working week off:

(https://i.imgur.com/aeT5Q5p.jpg)

I re-used the section I cut out of the diagonal member (even metal-glued a few pinholes up); but the remaining piece I'll need to fabricate from the paper pattern.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on August 29, 2020, 06:31:12 PM
Somewhat time-consuming to fabricate the repair section . . .  but it's done.

(https://i.imgur.com/qF2wgMc.jpg)

Brief interruption in the late afternoon to unseize the pinion on a Mitsubishi starter motor for a Volvo Penta marine engine.  Salt air and humidity are no friend of electrical machinery.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on August 29, 2020, 07:40:25 PM
Nice work rob 👍


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: camxsmith on August 30, 2020, 09:22:35 AM
Nice work Rob that looks great


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on August 30, 2020, 06:46:04 PM
The diagonal member on the driver's side needed attention too.  It had rotted out behind and above where the steering box bolts on, but unlike the passenger's side, the cancer ate its way in from the outside.  When I sliced off the most diseased bit, this is what it looked like behind:

(https://i.imgur.com/edx3S2t.jpg)

The box member was intact and rust-free inside (bonus!).  But the skirt inside the diagonal member was quite pockmarked once I chipped all the scale off.  I wondered if I'd be quicker to cut out and replace, but I started welding the craters up, and it came good.  I did a couple of postage-stamp repairs on the bigger holes in the skirt.  The section I cut off was fairly easy to fabricate, as it only had the one fold.  And so -

(https://i.imgur.com/DSOWBTo.jpg)

And the sun hadn't even gone down.

There are a few more small rust holes in the RH subframe skirt to colour in, and then I can start work replacing the legs.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on September 05, 2020, 05:50:09 PM
Not much to report that's photo-worthy today.  I welded up lots of rust holes in the subframe skirts.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on September 06, 2020, 04:17:54 PM
Right Hand Inner Subframe Leg -

This one is the least diseased of the four, and I thought it'd be worth trying to repair rather than replacing it.  Replacing the subframe legs means putting the subframe back on the body, and it'd be good to delay that task as far as possible.  There were only a few small holes visible from the outside, but when I tapped a hammer along the subframe leg, it sounded hollow and didn't ring for quite a distance.  Shining torchlight up the leg also helped in estimating how much to cut out.

The engine mount bracket is what the subframe legs look like inside.

(https://i.imgur.com/91fiYoi.jpg)

After I cut out the marked-up piece, I could see that there was still a lot of sand and clay up where the crush tubes for the rear engine mount bracket are.  More work with a hacksaw blade and the hose to remove the muck.

I made two repair sections for the sides of the member, and welded them in place.  I wanted to keep the captive nut for the lower handbrake pulley, so I welded just that part of the bottom of the member to the sides, and then cut the rotten parts of the bottom section out.  Took advantage of the opening to paint inside -

(https://i.imgur.com/V7TmZAr.jpg)

and then shaped up the two patches for the bottom of the member.

(https://i.imgur.com/eyPkekY.jpg)

Dressed the welds where they looked a bit ugly, and underneath the handbrake pulley bracket.  (But I will have to put the subframe on the body for the other three lower legs.)

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on September 06, 2020, 05:15:21 PM
It is a toss up really whether it is easier to make a crude jig to pick up the mount surfaces and bolt holes.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on September 06, 2020, 08:33:42 PM
I am reminded of the Gorignak scene in "Galaxy Quest":  after knocking off the badly-needed beryllium spheres, the intrepid captain is about to be eaten by the pig-lizard, and Ensign Red-Shirt says, "Can you improvise a crude lathe?"  But the captain's skin is saved when the crew teleports the pig-lizard up to the ship -

"Ooh - it turned inside-out . . . mmm . . . and it exploded."

But a couple of ideas are taking shape.  The outside face of the outer legs is flat.  If clamp a piece of right-angle to the outer leg, index it to the captive nut (engine mount bracket), put the right bends in it and pick up the subframe bolt-hole, there's my jig.

For the inner leg, it'll take a bigger sheet, drilled to suit the six holes for the rear engine mount brackets, with an outrigger piece of right-angle, drilled to pick up the subframe bolt-hole.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on September 07, 2020, 08:11:35 AM
Think yo saw what I did with my ute. I only had to replace one leg but as long as you leave three in place and just replace one at a time you can just index the four holes and surfaces to each other.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on September 12, 2020, 05:21:33 PM
The Department of Jigs -

I cut the "farm-grade" repair off the RH outer subframe leg.  The rusted part of the leg was much smaller than the piece grafted onto the outside, which was a surprise.

(https://i.imgur.com/TN6JfMa.jpg)

I wanted to get to a point where I could sit a piece of right-angle onto the outside of the leg, located in place with the short bolt for the engine mount bracket, and pick up the subframe bolt-hole at the end of the leg.

Three points define a plane.  On two intersecting planes, I need five points of contact, which leaves the jig free to slide up and down the line of intersection.  I welded five "bumps" to the right-angle piece and then filed them down so the jig contacted the subframe leg only on the "bumps".  When that was done, I clamped the jig in place, then notched and bent the end of the right-angle to contact the "pad" where the subframe bolt goes through.  I traced through the hole in the subframe leg, centre-punched it, then drilled a 3/8" hole.  Then I put the jig back in place and filed the hole in the jig out to 7/16" and put a 7/16" UNF bolt through the hole.  The remaining task was to drill a small piece of right-angle with a 3/8" hole for the engine mount bracket bolt, install it, then weld the tab in place.  That removed the last degree of freedom.

(https://i.imgur.com/CdBMGK7.jpg)

After making the jig I found I needed to massage the Rare Spares subframe leg gently with vice and hammer in a few places so that the jig only contacts the leg at the pad for the subframe bolt-hole.

With hindsight I should have made the "bumps" out of 4-6 mm thick steel to give more clearance between jig and subframe leg.  This is the jig installed in position:

(https://i.imgur.com/AfiiNUN.jpg)

It locates the subframe bolt hole to within half a millimetre.  Let's see how it goes . . .

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: camxsmith on September 12, 2020, 10:27:39 PM
really nice work Rob..  Its funny every one says how hard it is to get those K frame bolts right.  It makes you so scared of putting it on the I think it might easier to just weld it on... ;D :P


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on September 13, 2020, 09:35:52 AM
That should work. The one I replaced was cut right up near the engine mount so I had to locate it to the other legs instead. Weather looks good and youíve got the nephew on the job?


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on September 13, 2020, 11:45:24 AM
Well spotted.  Bro and nephew.  But yesterday's job for them was to strip down, clean and restore to operation a metho stove from a small yacht (the same one as the starter motor from a couple of weekends back).


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on September 13, 2020, 01:48:54 PM
Here's the replacement leg cut to size and bolted into the jig.

(https://i.imgur.com/kxm1QYS.jpg)

The pad at the end of the leg was skewed a little compared with the original leg, so I cut a slot and drove a screwdriver into the slot until the pad sat square on the jig.  Then I welded the slot up shut, rechecked the alignment (all good), took a deep breath, and -

(https://i.imgur.com/V75f6Xf.jpg)

And it's only lunchtime.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on September 13, 2020, 05:22:36 PM
Things go faster the second time around.  You have an idea, at least, of what not to do.  The jig for the LH outer subframe leg came together quickly:

(https://i.imgur.com/imAhrF4.jpg)

I figure this is a good time call it quits.  But earlier, there was a brief skirmish in the Threaded Fasteners Wars to get the LH rear engine mount bracket unbolted.  One of the bolts sheared off inside the moment I took a spanner to it.  The second didn't want to budge and took persuading with the MAP gas torch -

(https://i.imgur.com/YyjG8Vo.jpg)

It looks like I'll need to replace the crush tubes inside the LH inner leg, from the condition of the bolts.  It'll be chock-full of mud, I reckon.

Outer LH leg first.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on September 13, 2020, 08:56:26 PM
Eyuck! Donít envy you that job Rob.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on September 13, 2020, 09:05:09 PM
That delight will happen after replacing the LH outer leg.  The inner leg is rotten almost all the way up to the crook of the Y, which is longer than the Rare Spares section: so it'll be a two-stage repair.


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on September 19, 2020, 01:30:19 PM
Can't say I wasn't warned:

(https://i.imgur.com/SjCkHEU.jpg)

According to the sticker on the subframe leg, " . . . some additional labour may be required to ensure an original fit."  Just like I had to do on the RH outer leg.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on September 19, 2020, 05:46:05 PM
. . . and glued in place.

(https://i.imgur.com/WywkCyy.jpg)

That's three of four subframe legs repaired.  And yes, I've saved the worst until last.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on September 20, 2020, 07:55:49 AM
looks excellent Rob , I would be happy with that ..Vern .


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on September 20, 2020, 01:31:57 PM
Here is the aligning jig for the LH inner subframe leg.

(https://i.imgur.com/KUbM7oF.jpg)

The G-clamp hides some of the details.  There's a smaller length of right-angle which locates on the main member, and I drilled and tapped it 3/8" UNF, then put a long 3/8" UNF bolt through the upper idler arm support hole.  The longer piece of right-angle is welded onto the smaller length, and I marked up and drilled the bracket 3/8" to locate the end of the subframe leg, then bolted it up and welded it into place.

Now I can cut the leg open around the rear engine mount bracket bolt holes and see what's inside.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on September 20, 2020, 05:02:24 PM
It's festy, all right.  When I cut the Dodgy Brothers' repair off, there wasn't much left of the subframe leg.

(https://i.imgur.com/k6EykyR.jpg)

I cut the sides out of the subframe leg to a point about an inch forward of the front bolt hole.  That wasn't pretty either.  Then I scraped a couple of handfuls of scale and sand out, and bent the bottom of the member away far enough to free the remnants of the crush tubes:

(https://i.imgur.com/ovrEy4r.jpg)

The bit which remains is the upper part - the lower bit, including a return which is spot welded to the bottom of the member, is just a rusty memory.  It won't be too hard to make a reproduction, as long as I bear in mind that the crush tubes are of different heights, and they don't sit at the same level either.  But I can figure out how high to make them from measuring the RH inner subframe leg at the bolt holes and subtracting two metal thicknesses.  And the offset is about 4 mm - fortunately I could measure that from the bit which remains.

The replacement inner leg has one bolt hole and crush tube, but after my experience with the outer legs, I don't trust the dimensioning of the replacement inner leg enough to cut my subframe leg between the two bolt holes and expect the two bolt holes to be the right distance apart after welding the new leg on.  So instead I'll repair the area around the bolt holes (more work), and join the Rare Spares leg to the rear of the bolt holes.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Rod on September 20, 2020, 06:37:04 PM
Gee Rob you are a trouper!! This would have beaten many. I have done two subframes and have been fortunate only to to replace the tie members and the passenger side dumb irons with a small patch in one of the legs.

What you have done is inspiring and will be of great help to others on their subframe repairs particularly in regards to the jigs to keep everything aligned. I have another ute to do one day and only hope the repairs to the subframe are minimal but if I need to go to this extent this thread will be of great assisitance. Thanks Rob.

Cheers

Rod


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on September 20, 2020, 07:06:48 PM
Very satisfying Rob I'm sure. Nothing more fun than working with welder and sheet metal  like this.

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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on September 26, 2020, 02:44:32 PM
Where was I?  Crush tubes for the inner subframe legs.  I made a pattern by rolling a piece of paper over the crush tubes and estimating dimensions here and there.  Then I marked up and cut out a piece of 1.6 sheet (about 5 mm narrower than the pattern, because that's how wide the offcut was):

(https://i.imgur.com/ur72LsI.jpg)

During the week I took the paper pattern to work and asked the sheet metal worker how to bend the piece up; and he explained the sequence of bends so I could make it in a vice.  And it wasn't all "that" hard.  I could compare with the original piece as I went.

(https://i.imgur.com/ow9AEGl.jpg)

The tab at the top of the picture is for plug-welding the crush tubes to the bottom inside of the leg.  I reproduced the original shape, rather than using tube alone, as I figure that the webbing between the tubes is there to provide some bending stiffness to the subframe leg.  This is where the weight of the engine and gearbox is taken . . .

Now to attempt a trial fit.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on September 26, 2020, 05:56:56 PM
Trial fit of the crush tubes went OK (for the moment).  The distance between centres was good.  I may need to take a smidgen off the tubes, but I did engineer in an extra millimetre in the event . . .

But there'll need to be a couple of repairs on the upper part of the leg.  Here's one, done just before the sun went down.

(https://i.imgur.com/MkooDAs.jpg)

More fun tomorrow.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on September 27, 2020, 04:48:13 PM
Things didn't go perfectly with the repairs to the upper part of the subframe leg.  Shrinkage got me, and the bolt hole at the end of the subframe leg is offset about 4 mm.  I tried peening the welds, but it didn't have much effect.  But I'm going to cut most of the leg off anyway, so I figure it won't matter.

I reproduced the bottom section of the subframe leg where the bolts for the engine mount bracket go through.  It's the bit that was bent out of the way in the previous photo.  I made the flanged holes by drilling 3/16", and then driving a centre punch through using the vice as a press and sockets of different sizes as dies.  It's convenient that my centre-punches are 3/8" diameter.  The other holes are so I can plug-weld the crush tubes to this piece once assembled.

(https://i.imgur.com/1A5ADmb.jpg)

Here are the parts I've made so far trial-fitted, showing the crush tubes in place.  The bolts line up with the bracket (bonus) and I can adjust the overall height of the member to match the other side . . . but the Rare Spares replacement leg is about 2 mm thinner.  I can adjust that up too.

(https://i.imgur.com/Kzq5BB7.jpg)

I've just finished bending and trimming the "side-wall" on this side, and still have to make the one for the other side.  And I naively thought I might have everything finished today . . .

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on October 03, 2020, 04:18:48 PM
The two "sides" of the repair to the leg are now welded in:

(https://i.imgur.com/sdUfveJ.jpg)

The masking tape is to indicate the line of cut for the Rare Spares section.  And then -

(https://i.imgur.com/mqFUeuy.jpg)

On the other side (not shown, thankfully) there's a second weld, parallel to the main weld, but exactly 25.4 mm further forward.  Who would like to guess why?

Masking tape has two edges.

I said some uncomplimentary things to myself about paying attention.  But I remember some wise words to the effect of, "If you stuff up, cut it off and start again."  I "just" needed to weld the misplaced cut up, and paint it over on the inside before making the cut in the right place.

This is a major project milestone reached: the subframe repairs are complete.  Fingers crossed.  I'll trial-fit the subframe to the body before speaking out of turn.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on October 03, 2020, 06:06:57 PM
Hmm.  Fitting the subframe to the body single-handed is a pain in the rear.

I got the RH outer bolt in without too many swear words.  But I must make up a set of "subframe-bolt-bullets"*.  No.3 Phillips screwdriver in place of the RH inner bolt.  The left hand side was less cooperative.  The two left hand legs ran into the No. 1 body crossmember at the rear before the bolt holes lined up - I'll have to trim the left side legs (at a guess) 8 mm.

Rob

*It would be ideal, of course, to draw them up properly on a CAD package, make STEP files, and go to a place with a CNC lathe and order a hundred.


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on October 03, 2020, 09:42:27 PM
Yes itís a challenge but Iím sure youíre up to it Rob. Those big Phillips heads do come in handy for lining things up.

Are you intending to repair the bolt on brackets? I may have some usable ones.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on October 04, 2020, 11:59:33 AM
The Rough-As-Guts Home Engineering Workshop -

(https://i.imgur.com/CWJdpg1.jpg)

This is a much easier task on a lathe . . .

I made two subframe-bolt-bullets, one out of a 3/8" bolt, and one out of an M12 bolt.  Accurately finding the centre of a stud by eye isn't easy.  I drilled down 3/4" or so, then tapped 5/16" UNF.  The smaller one I tapered in the drill press with an angle grinder.  The larger one I had to "turn down" to size with an angle grinder first, before tapering it.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on October 04, 2020, 12:01:24 PM
Clay,

Do you mean the two brackets at the front of the no. 1 body crossmember that the inner subframe legs bolt up to?

I'm still naively hoping they're OK, but if not, I'll give you a yell.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on October 04, 2020, 01:45:47 PM
The rear engine mount brackets. They look rusted out in your photos from memory. I donít have the inner leg brackets. Think I gave them to Bruce Robbo for his ek ute.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on October 04, 2020, 02:33:58 PM
No.  I'll use my own.  They're rusty, but not rotten all the way through.  Anyway, I have a welder.

But the trial-fit of the subframe wasn't a huge success.  The right hand side lined up OK, but the left was a worry.  I got the bottom bolts in with great effort, and it was hard to line the skirt up at the cowl.  So I'll have to slice through the LH legs' welds and re-do them.


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on October 04, 2020, 07:53:19 PM
Subframe off.  Amputate one leg (and boy, do I dislike cutting through a perfectly good weld), cut through three sides of  another, and make a lengthwise cut at the end of the RH outer leg.

Subframe on.  Put the bolts in through the skirts first, then RH outer and RH inner.  Bend LH outer leg down and insert bolt.  Bolt the amputated LH inner leg in position and line it up.  Weld the two LH legs, as much as practical, in position.  Drive a screwdriver into the cut on the RH outer leg so the pad on the subframe leg sits flat on the inner sill.

(https://i.imgur.com/uARjaP0.jpg)

Subframe off.  Finish the welds on the two LH legs, and weld up the slot on the RH outer leg.

I think that's the subframe finished (apart from a lock of paint here and there).

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on October 11, 2020, 06:57:52 PM
Not much to report this weekend, and nothing photo-worthy -

I ground some welds down and painted most of the repairs.  The wire brush pinged a few rust scales off the apron, which revealed holes to be welded up.  Fortunately only a couple of minutes' work.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on October 17, 2020, 05:06:12 PM
Paint-scraper and broom on the floors: one kitchen-tidy bag full of dirt, rust, sound deadener and busted bits of interior trim.  There are lots more clear-vision parts of the car now.

The body shell tips over to 60 degrees now.  Only just.  The roof passes to within a hand's thickness of the carport roof beams, and the sill just misses the bottom of the rotisserie -

(https://i.imgur.com/xXRiHMj.jpg)

And once I tipped the shell over, look what came out of the No. 1 body member on the left hand side:

(https://i.imgur.com/HyvmIe2.jpg)

Rob



Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on October 18, 2020, 04:47:42 PM
A scoop of laundry detergent in warm water goes a very long way . . . when combined with a cubed cubit of elbow-grease:

(https://i.imgur.com/MLXZFpl.jpg)

So the car had had parts of the underneath painted, perhaps twice.  I think that was long before its service as a paddock-basher.

The driver's side and the passenger's side lived in completely different environments, as far as I can work out.  The driver's side is, well, a rotten mess:

(https://i.imgur.com/uuxNzdF.jpg)

It doesn't show up too well in the photo, but there are big holes in the inner sill.  And I'm going to need to find a sill reinforcement (jacking point).

(https://i.imgur.com/doaBLmN.jpg)

The bottom of the B-pillar is rotten, and it's interesting that the floor around the outline of the sill reinforcement at the base of the B-pillars has rusted away on both sides.  Suggests to me that metal fatigue set in.

On the other hand, the left hand sill may only need "minor" repairs: patching, rather than outright replacement.

But the size of the job ahead is becoming painfully apparent.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: mcl1959 on October 18, 2020, 05:55:48 PM
Thatís really unusual as lots of country roads in the fifties were often only 1 lane wide meaning that cars had to drive off the side of the road to pass.
All my cars were worse on the passenger side than the drivers side.
Ken


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on October 18, 2020, 08:48:01 PM
I think now the cars have been sitting unused for so long that significant rust takes place after the car has been taken off the road. It then depends a lot on how the car was stored. Not to discount what you say. I agree passenger side always cops more of a stoning from shoulder hopping.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on October 18, 2020, 09:36:40 PM
Clay,

And in this case you'd be absolutely spot-on.  The car was probably parked facing east, or driver's side downhill.  Or both.  Much bog in the RH sill.

How much of Errol do you still have?  A sill reinforcement/jacking point?

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on October 18, 2020, 09:54:58 PM
I sold Errol as a rolling shell to gledge for $250. I did try #nd salvage a couple of jacking points from the fb I cut up but they were rusted out.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: HAD 708 on October 19, 2020, 11:26:53 AM
I love this topic it is great!!!!
Brett


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Rod on October 19, 2020, 07:16:00 PM
Couldn't agree more Brett. Following Rob's build has got me into action and inspired me to do some work.

Rob, keep up the great work / thread.

Cheers Rod


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on October 24, 2020, 05:43:18 PM
A wet Saturday .so doing some indoor stuff , great resto Rob ,enjoying following all the current ones ,looking forward when we have a run , this Covid has kept us at home ..Vern


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on October 25, 2020, 11:46:28 AM
The weather's miserable outside today, as it seems to be everywhere east of WA, so I decided to attempt one of the smaller tasks: repairs to the battery tray -

(https://i.imgur.com/qwEMwNb.jpg)

and after some cutting, bending and grinding to fit, -

(https://i.imgur.com/dmOtmm4.jpg)

I welded from the underneath, where the access is a lot easier.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on October 31, 2020, 06:21:11 PM
And the weather continues to mock me.  I put on my auto-electrician's hat today: starter motor.  Quite often when I turned the key, the starter would click and spin, but not engage the ring gear.

The Threaded Fasteners Wars were not over.  One of the screws for the commutator end cover didn't budge.  I heated it, then it did budge, only to break the head off.  Once I got the end cover off, more heat, and I managed to unscrew the remains of the screw.  Internally, the starter motor seemed OK, except for one brush almost completely worn out.  Oh, and a lot of end float on the armature shaft, which wasn't helped by a loose retaining nut.  And when I pulled the armature out, the "armature brake thrust washer retainer" and "armature brake thrust washer spring" were absent.  That'd explain it.

Clearly, the last person who "reconditioned" this starter motor left a few parts out on reassembly.

I had another starter motor in the spare parts department labelled "needs brush springs".  It had never been apart, and the commutator and brushes were in way better condition, so I thought I'd transfer the brush springs over.

Advice For Young Players: Don't, if you can help it, remove the brush springs from a Bosch starter motor.  Easily out, not so easily in.  Three of the four can be installed from inside the yoke by winding them up with a screwdriver.  The field windings get in the way of the fourth.

I tested the assembled starter on the engine, which turned into a "pre-ECU ignition system" tutorial for my nephew, and in demonstrating how to set the timing by ear, I asked myself, "Why is the distributor wobbling at half engine speed?"  The shaft's bent.  Which begs the next question . . . how is it possible to bend the distributor shaft without damaging anything else?

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on November 01, 2020, 07:05:06 AM
Rob ...If the distributor shaft is bent ,and how does that happen ?? .Then its end of the line , I have got a distributor body here you can have if it helps ,I will have to check exactly which series ,..By the way ,the guy who moved in near me with his grandmas FJ I told you about ,suddenly wasn't around ,I enquired and his nurse wife got a job with RFDS,so they have moved to Broken Hill ..cheers Vern ..


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on November 01, 2020, 01:32:44 PM
Generator.

I pulled the generator apart just to see what it was like inside.  It didn't seem tooo bad, but the brushes were quite worn.  And they were too narrow for the brush holders.  Field coils OK, armature OK, rear bush quite badly worn.  I extracted the rear bush thinking I'd replace it, but the commutator end housing showed the marks where the armature shaft wore through the bush and ate into the housing; and the "replacement" bush had been pressed in, leaving a void on the thrust side.  So this commutator end housing went into the milk crate of Lucas generator parts, and I found another with a serviceable bush.

I was also going to replace the ball bearing with a double-sealed type . . . but the last reconditioner of this generator had staked the retaining screws at both ends, mooshing the heads and the threads, making removal a total pain in the rear.  The bearing seemed OK, so I greased it in-situ.

Sanded the commutator lightly, new brushes (this time for a C39), and all seems good.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on November 02, 2020, 07:36:24 AM
Rob..Where you sanded the comutator ,dont forget to lightly scrape out the insulation ,between the plates to just below the copper ..Vern ..


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Brett027 on November 02, 2020, 07:51:12 AM
My understanding is that for generators you ensure the commutator insulation strips are below the copper, but not for starters. Might be wrong.

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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on November 02, 2020, 09:35:38 AM
Vern,

I made certain that the commutator segments were undercut.  For generators, it's essential, and for starter motors, it's a good idea.  For Bosch starters, it's recommended, but for 6-V Delco-Remy starters, undercutting the commutator segments appears to be optional.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on November 03, 2020, 06:20:34 AM
I have never had a problem with scraping out the insulator strips on comutators, but have solved problems by doing it , Rob ..the dissy I offered you with my compliments has shaft and body ,no vacuum ,or cap ,rotor ,points ,condensor,clamp etc ...Vern .


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on November 03, 2020, 11:14:35 AM
Vern,

If it's got a shaft as well, then yes please.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Brett027 on November 05, 2020, 11:31:47 AM
I had a bit of a read up. According to Holden, up to 1963 at least,  Lucas starters are not supposed to be undercut, Bosch starters are 1/32inch  undercut.

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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Harv on November 05, 2020, 01:19:53 PM
If you get stuck for dizzy bits, give me a yell. I've got a couple here ranging from zombie-corpse to nothing-a-good-veterinarian-couldn't-save, and one emergency humpy shortcap runner.

Cheers,
Harv


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on November 05, 2020, 02:00:42 PM
Harv,

Thanks.

I've been hoovering up distributors and parts for a while, but if I get stuck, I know who to call.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on November 07, 2020, 07:10:27 PM
The internal structure of the no. 1 body crossmember is somewhat more complicated than appears from the outside.  It only "looked" like I had to replace a 40x60 mm section of the member on the driver's side at the gearbox crossmember bolt holes.  It was completely full of dirt, so I cut out more.  That was completely full of dirt, so I cut down to where the Rare Spares repair section finishes, and guess what - full of dirt.

(https://i.imgur.com/XGEJIWE.jpg)

The crush tubes are actually part of a larger shaped U-section which is maybe a foot wide.  It goes from the first set of ridges in the floor to the point you can see here.  On the forward side, the wall of the U goes nearly the full depth of the member.  On the rearward side, the wall of the U is maybe an inch deep, except around the bolt holes.  Immediately behind the subframe attaching bracket, the wall of the U has a hump pressed into it, for greater rigidity.  And it's all spot-welded in place.

I think I got most of the dirt out now, but it took a hammer and screwdriver to loosen it.

(https://i.imgur.com/u79kdpX.jpg)

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised at the amount of dirt that came out, but yet . . .

So how to repair it?  I have the profile of the crush tube section.  I'll make the walls of the member out of 1.6, shape to suit, drill the holes, use the gearbox crossmember as a jig, tack-weld the pieces together.  Then when satisfied with the fit, I'll finish the welds, paint it on the inside and weld it into place.  Then I'll mirror-image everything, and repeat for the passenger's side.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on November 08, 2020, 07:00:48 AM
Rob ..I will take couple of images of dissy ,you can see what it is . ill ask DJ to post them for me , refusal would not offend ..Vern .


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: DJ on November 08, 2020, 09:22:47 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/xYS1QRol.jpg)


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on November 08, 2020, 09:52:52 AM
Vern,

No way will I refuse . . .

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on November 08, 2020, 11:02:15 AM
Rob ..Im going to Greengate at Killara on Tues 15th Dec for lunch , can get it to you ,if you want it before let me know ,I can give it to friend lives at Pymble i see him regularily,naturally you are welcome here ..what ever suits you ..Vern ..


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on November 08, 2020, 06:11:50 PM
This is as far as I got today: the "crush tubes", the front wall and the rear wall of the body crossmember -

(https://i.imgur.com/4hqaB0g.jpg)

It should slot in fairly easily.  Probably best to mark up and cut out the section of the crossmember, weld the bottom of the U in place, paint the inside, tack the crush tubes in place, paint some more, and graft in the complete assembly.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: zulu on November 10, 2020, 06:40:18 AM
Very surgical and neat Rob, you should be nearing the end of the metal work?


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on November 10, 2020, 09:57:18 AM
"Nearing the end of the metal work"?

I wish.  I have only just started on the body shell.  Maybe I'll have the body repairs finished by the Australia Day long weekend . . .

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Rod on November 14, 2020, 08:39:15 AM
Gee Rob, that cross member / hump repair is "top notch". The attention to detail on the crush tube, that won't be seen, is amazing. Having just gone through this myself, while I put in crush tubes, I didn't go to this extent. Given that, the crush tube was rusted beyond recognition of what it looked like originally.

I enjoy following your build and build of others. It drives my enthusiasm. Have you ever considered a Youtube channel? I follow some other builds / channels and I look forward to new "episodes" being released. I am sure you would have many views and the subscribers would grow fast, bringing about income to fund your build.

I look forward in hopefully seeing an update this weekend on your build.

Have a ripper.

Cheers

Rod


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on November 14, 2020, 07:39:53 PM
Hear hear Rod. Celubriously thorough Rob.

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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on November 14, 2020, 08:54:47 PM
I put on my "Holden Helpline" hat today . . .

An ex-president of the Humpy club succumbed to cancer a couple of weeks back, and his FJ developed separation anxiety after his wake on Monday.  His wife said it made bad noises in engine-bay-land, and the GEN light stayed on after it started.  They had the FJ tilt-tray'd back home.  Fortunately, the tow-truck driver lives in the same suburb, and was super-careful with the FJ.

The generator's armature had spat out one commutator segment.  So today I swapped generators over, but it was the classic "working on somebody else's car" scenario, and ended up taking all afternoon.

Good thing I grabbed ekute's generator when I could . . .

But on "Found Object", I did manage to weld in the bottom part of the repair to the body crossmember.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on December 05, 2020, 05:37:30 PM
The passenger's side of the no. 1 body crossmember is quite rotten, and needs bigger repair sections than the driver's side.  This is the rear wall where the gearbox crossmember bolts up, cut out and bent to shape.

(https://i.imgur.com/He3nwvP.jpg)

I got to the stage of making a cardboard pattern for the front wall and cutting the section out of sheet metal, but putting the return and bend in will be a job for tomorrow (starting to rain).

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on December 06, 2020, 07:26:55 PM
I made up the "front wall" of the repair to the no.1 body crossmember this morning - I didn't have to stretch the metal as much to make the return, and the gentle bend appeared almost on its own.

(https://i.imgur.com/LhpXpNc.jpg)

I made the crush tubes, and also worked out that when I can't visualise how the parts go together and undo perfectly good work as a result, it's time for lunch.  Then I put the bends for the "floor" into the two repair sections, and wondered how I was going to line the two sides up to put the "floor" in.

The body is the best alignment jig.  So I got out with the angle grinder and spot-weld drill to remove the rotten parts, and tacked the repair sections in place.  Then some more work with a cardboard pattern and the angle grinder to make the "floor", and I tacked it in place, trimming with the cutting disc as I went.  And then I discovered that I got over-zealous with straightening the U-section of the gearbox crossmember on the driver's side, and it didn't fit any more.  A few minutes with an adjustable spanner and some persuasion with Mister Hit, and the gearbox crossmember went on, so I could mark up the locations of the mounting holes.

(https://i.imgur.com/zmMktXS.jpg)

And then, of course, my "temporary" tack welds held fast, but let go after a stern talking-to.

I now have to seam-weld the section, drill the holes, paint it inside, fit the crush tubes . . . and then I can put it back for good.

And I have at least a dozen more weekends like this one, just on the body shell . . .

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: camxsmith on December 06, 2020, 09:28:21 PM
Great work rob. looks nice


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on December 07, 2020, 05:18:51 PM
Very smooth work. Rough burger that I am, I would have welded it in and filled up with fish oil via 3/4Ē sawed hole in the floor above as I did in the fb ute. Donít forget to seal up the place where the muck gets in. Between the floor strengthening swage lines and the body member facing forward.
Cheers
Clay


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on December 12, 2020, 07:39:49 PM
I finally figured out why I needed to rework the gearbox crossmember to make it fit last weekend.

(I put it on backwards.)  So I guess I need to chalk mark the underbody with a big L on the passenger's side and a big R on the driver's side.

First repairs on the body shell today.  That was a long time coming.

(https://i.imgur.com/45SNpng.jpg)

Who'd have thought that the top of a box-section rusts out?  Condensation, I suppose.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on December 13, 2020, 07:37:14 PM
This bracket was the object of an afternoon's work.  After cutting away the dodgily-repaired-and-rusted-out-for-the-second-time no. 1 body member, I found that there was more rust and less metal inside the bracket than I'd have liked.
 The prudent thing would have been to replace it, but instead, I repaired it.  I thought that using the welder as a hot metal glue gun inside the bracket would have been tricky, but I managed to colour-in the holes.  And the rusted-out section at the front was a relatively easy fix.

(https://i.imgur.com/JwP1Ykz.jpg)

Then I could try fitting the repair section I fabricated for the passenger's side.  It took a couple of attempts to get it lined up (hopefully OK), and a little work with a round file on the bolt holes with the gearbox crossmember in place (N.B. the right way around this time).  Here it is, tacked in place, with the gearbox crossmember fitted:

(https://i.imgur.com/1GYO1i8.jpg)

No. 3 Phillips screwdrivers make admirable podgers.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on December 13, 2020, 09:03:12 PM
Podgers 👍👍


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Harv on December 14, 2020, 07:08:11 AM
Podgers 👍👍

That made me smile. Podger was a name I learnt from Dad. The kids look at you funny when you ask them to pass you a podger.

I learned a new one last month from Jim, the Windscreen Whisperer. Chicken Stick. The small plastic tool, about twice the size of a paddlepop stick, used to remove excess sealant from a windscreen.

"Gimme that podger, your making a mess with the mastic. Use the chicken stick". Little wonder the kids look at me funny  :D ;D

Cheers,
Harv


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on December 14, 2020, 07:22:28 AM
AHHH !!! the podger , that tapered mirical alignment tool ,the one that requires three hands can be a bugger ...Vern ..


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on December 19, 2020, 07:37:35 PM
Drizzling and eighteen degrees.  Doesn't do much for motivation.

Instead: distributors.

Ha.

Vern's freebie (BR 54, from an EJ) took unseizing, to get the drive gear off, and the cam off the shaft.  And the advance weights were quite loose where they engaged with the pegs in the cam . . .

"Found Object's" distributor (BR 36, from an FC) definitely had a bent shaft.  Any thoughts I had of using the shaft from Vern's and the rest of the internals from "Found Object" vanished.  The shaft, cam and advance weights were all different.  I straightened the bent shaft (approximately) using bearing blue, three pieces of 1.6 sheet and a vice.  And when I was happy with the fit of the shaft in the body, I discovered that the shaft was cracked around the hole for the drive gear pin.  So that one's good for the bin too.

There are the two I got from ekute, and another couple I scrounged a few years back.  One of them (BR 41, FB), still has the Bakelite thrust washers, a working vacuum advance, and the centrifugal advance doesn't feel too worn.  Let's see what happens . . .

But I think all distributors are basically worn out.  Now, if I had a precision lathe, it might be possible to re-make the advance weight pins for the shaft and cam.  Which just leaves the flogged-out holes in the advance weights.


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: camxsmith on December 19, 2020, 11:48:08 PM
Mate would love to see the pictures of you working the lathe and making the new parts, things are looking good under the car


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on December 20, 2020, 07:08:26 PM
Extraordinary Discovery of the Day:  You can recondition a distributor with a MIG welder.
That, and a file.  And a Texta.  And patience.  And some Super-glue.

I figured I had nothing to lose by trying, and was wondering what to do with two cactus distributors in pieces.

It was easier than I thought to weld up the worn part of the slot in the advance weights where the cam engages.  Then some work with a bench grinder and file, using an unworn part of the pins as a "no-go" gauge, until the pin went into the slot.

Next: the worn part of the pins.  It's trickier filing a cylindrical profile.

There's a sheet of Bakelite which sits on the "platform" of the distributor shaft.  Normally it's supposed to be located by the pivot pins for the advance weights, but bits break off and it floats around.  I cleaned up the parts and super-glued the Bakelite in place.  Then I got some zinc-plated washers, filed the holes out to clear the pivot pins, and put the washers in place.  The originals are Bakelite, but they fall to bits too.

I did a trial assembly of the centrifugal advance mechanism, and it bound in a couple of positions.  This is where the Texta came in.  By colouring-in the welded-up pins, I could see where the parts interfered.  Disassemble-file-colour-in-reassemble a few times until the parts ran freely.

Then I played mix-and-match with Bakelite washers and shims to get the shaft's end-float right, more mix-and-match with Bakelite washers and shims to get the clearance between distributor cam and breaker plate right; and made a drive-gear pin by filing some steel rod down in the drill press until it just fitted the hole in the shaft (dodgy as, I know, but I don't have a lathe).

The hole in the shaft is 3/16" (4.76 mm), while the hole in the drive gear is closer to 5.00 mm.  Which means you can't just use a C-section pin, because the drive gear will be loose.  The drive pin has to be solid steel, and it has to be peened into place, otherwise the drive gear works loose.  A vice does the job OK.

Disassemble and lube breaker plate, test vacuum advance unit (petrol-mouth).  Fortunately the breaker plate, vacuum advance, cap retaining clips and capacitor from the earlier distributor fitted the later one.

Test run in "Found Object's" motor was a success.

Vern: your donor distributor lives again.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on December 20, 2020, 08:35:25 PM
I'm pleased about that Rob ,If you encounter any problems ,I do have a few more ,cheers Vern .


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on December 22, 2020, 05:51:32 PM
The rain held off just long enough today for me to slice out the rotten gearbox crossmember mount on the driver's side, trim the repair section to size, line it up with the gearbox crossmember, and glue it into place.

So here's the complete repair, welded, dressed, Deoxidined and painted.  The weather is such that you can watch bare metal parts rust before your eyes . . .

(https://i.imgur.com/sgs3FKx.jpg)

Not shown is a piece of firewall insulation which caught fire as I plug-welded the tunnel from inside the shell.  Panicky lunge for the hose, and then memories of what my father did in the early '60s to the family FJ's front seat.  Mum could never drive the car again without laddering stockings . . .

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on December 23, 2020, 07:18:30 AM
great job Rob ..as good if not better than new ...keep well Vern


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Harv on December 25, 2020, 10:00:53 AM
Not shown is a piece of firewall insulation which caught fire as I plug-welded the tunnel from inside the shell.  Panicky lunge for the hose, and then memories of what my father did in the early '60s to the family FJ's front seat.  Mum could never drive the car again without laddering stockings . . .

If you gas weld up the floor pan in an early Mini, the insulation may smoulder for 15 minutes before bursting into flames. Donít ask me how I know...

Cheers,
Harv


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: camxsmith on January 03, 2021, 10:25:24 PM
Super neat job , looks great


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on January 09, 2021, 07:08:58 PM
I'm now onto the all-time favourite repair - the cowl/A-pillar bottoms. (\sarcasm)
Things have shifted down a gear or two.  It's just complicated.

I cut away a dodgy repair to the driver's floor, and then a strip of the floor wide enough to get an angle grinder in.  Next to go was a section of the no. 1 body crossmember.  Then it was a case of grinding away the remains of the inner sill, finding the spot welds as I went.  The box-section spacer is not spot-welded on the outside - I put a 7/16 bolt and nut through the hole to hold it in place.  Bit by bit I cleared the inner sill away, until the spacer was left on its own.

(https://i.imgur.com/7g0fXKO.jpg)

While the surgery was ongoing, I turned dressmaker.  I had a paper pattern for the inner sill front from last time, photocopied it, then cut and folded, making adjustments as I went.  When I was happy with the pattern, I transferred it to sheet-metal (and then made a couple more adjustments to fold lines as I went).

(https://i.imgur.com/0GZ30kp.jpg)

I drilled the hole for the subframe bolt, and it wasn't in the right place.  But I remembered good advice from a forum post:  It's only metal.  If you make a mistake, weld it up, grind it flat, and start again.  I welded and re-drilled the hole, and the repair section lined up much better.  Here it is, with another 7/16" bolt holding it in position.

(https://i.imgur.com/2uBgJ1J.jpg)

The new section lies flat on the tabs of the box-section.  I have to drill holes for plug-welds, and weld the slots up.  But I have to pay attention to the order of things now.  It's probably a good idea to make the repair sections for the cowl panel before I weld the inner sill repair in place.

This will take some time.  Then I can turn the patterns over and do it all again on the passenger's side.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on January 10, 2021, 06:37:24 PM
I welded up the slots, and added the lower sill return.  Then I took a template from the box-section, traced it onto the inner sill section, and drilled holes for plug welds, before transferring the box-section over to the inner sill repair piece, and plug-welded it in place.

(https://i.imgur.com/6DYEqPD.jpg)

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on January 12, 2021, 05:45:01 PM
Next, I held the inner sill section in place with self-tappers and a couple of tabs tack-welded on.  Then it was a case of finding spot welds and drilling them out until I freed the outer sill.  With the cowl panel exposed, I then welded up some craters, did a few postage-stamp repairs, and then fabricated the front part of the cowl.  Here it is, more or less welded in place.

(https://i.imgur.com/1S6ADSH.jpg)

Still to be repaired: the part where the subframe bolt goes through; and the bit hidden under the outer sill.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on January 13, 2021, 06:18:31 PM
So . . . (a needle pulling thread) . . . I can manage about one repair section a day, if the going is good.
This is the right hand cowl bottom, repaired.

(https://i.imgur.com/K2ZcCsA.jpg)

That's a relief.  But of course, I get to do it all over again on the passenger's side.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Brett027 on January 14, 2021, 01:33:27 PM
Looks very neat Rob.

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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Longman on January 14, 2021, 03:59:21 PM
Looks good Rob. I can't tell in the pic, but I hope you put a drain channel at the bottom.


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on January 14, 2021, 04:39:42 PM
Haven't yet, but thanks for the reminder.


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on January 14, 2021, 11:10:56 PM
Yes but if you want to be factory correct you then have to block the drain hole up with a cup of tar 8) 8)


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on January 17, 2021, 04:25:19 PM
A few days further on, and the passenger's side inner sill repair has taken shape -

(https://i.imgur.com/vi0DO8I.jpg)

And I managed to get one of the lower cowl section repairs fabricated and welded into place.  While there are fewer rust holes as such on the passenger's side compared with the driver's, I spent a lot of time chasing holes.

(https://i.imgur.com/EJAYb23.jpg)

The parent metal is paper-thin in places, so I'll be better off chopping out and replacing a larger section.  But first, I have to cut off the front six to eight inches of the outer sill, in such a way that I can repair it and put it back.  I have a (probably naive) hope that I won't have to replace the LH outer sill.

Technology to the rescue.  My nephew has one of these nifty wireless endoscope/borescope thingies, which will be just the thing to explore the inside of the sill so I can get a good idea of how diseased it is internally.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on January 23, 2021, 05:59:54 PM
Another day, another repair section.

I cut off the front eight inches of the LH outer sill (much guesswork to find the spot welds).

Then I cut out a paper pattern, which I transferred to sheet metal, and gradually formed to shape, trimming bits off as I went.

(https://i.imgur.com/CVl58xE.jpg)

But I can tell that this is the Australia Day weekend.  How?  Because it's got stinking hot and humid, all in one glorious mix, and I'm working out of doors.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on January 26, 2021, 01:31:55 PM
Yep.  It's hot.  But I ventured outside just long enough to weld in the final section -

(https://i.imgur.com/xkgU3KM.jpg)

A voice of caution is telling me to trial-fit the subframe, and only with the subframe in place to weld the inner sill sections into place.

That's not going to be today.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: mcl1959 on January 26, 2021, 05:23:35 PM
My voice of caution would be agreeing with you. When the subframe is lined up the bolts go in easy. If the subframe is out even just a little bit, the bolts wonít go in :P

Ken


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on January 30, 2021, 03:21:44 PM
Endoscopy Report

Patient: Object, Found.
Examining Institution: Rough-As-Guts Body Works.
Region of Examination: Sill, LH.

Observations: Some ulceration at posterior and anterior extremities of tract, occasional perforations of the wall.  No ulceration detected at medial reinforcement immediately inferior to B-pillar attachment.

Therapeutic Recommendations:  Surgical replacement not indicated. Topical liquid iron salve recommended as treatment for perforated ulcers, followed by anti-corrosive protective layers.

Y.F.B.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on January 31, 2021, 03:48:56 PM
The subframe's back on (again).  Just temporarily, with three of the four lower bolts and one #3 Phillips screwdriver.

(https://i.imgur.com/dnKxwEU.jpg)

And here are the inner sill repairs, partially welded in place.

Passenger's side:

(https://i.imgur.com/tEPZpl8.jpg)

And driver's side:

(https://i.imgur.com/iKrF2rf.jpg)

I'll leave the subframe on while I attach the No. 1 body crossmember repair sections.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Rod on January 31, 2021, 07:16:56 PM
Well done Rob. Your said never doubt yourself on the refit of the subframe. Great work!

Cheers Rod


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on February 07, 2021, 08:12:09 PM
Passenger's side no. 1 body crossmember trimmed to size, reinforced, clamped into position and tack-welded:

(https://i.imgur.com/HjF4qrJ.jpg)

I couldn't plug-weld the inner subframe mount to the no.1 body crossmember like I'd hoped, because the subframe got in the way.  Who'dathought?

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on February 14, 2021, 04:14:34 PM
Driver's side No. 1 body crossmember repair section cut to size and tacked in place:

(https://i.imgur.com/ppip0Jk.jpg)

This side went a lot more easily than the passenger's side.  I didn't have to reinforce the repair section, as the part behind the inner subframe mount was sound, so I left it in place.

So that's the no. 1 body crossmember repaired.  I can now take the subframe off, tip the shell on its side, and go nuts with the welder.  After that, well, it'll be the RH inner sill.  I'll put in a request from the Department of Foreign Affairs to the sheet metal shop for an L-shaped profile of 1.6 sheet, ~1800 long.  I need to slice off the bottom 30-40 mm of the inner sill, pretty much all the way along, and replace it.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on February 14, 2021, 08:44:11 PM
Good progress Rob. Wouldn't it be easier to remove the entire inner sill and tack/plug weld on a new one, than butt weld the entire length?

early Holden nut


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on February 14, 2021, 08:59:22 PM
Clay,

In short, yes.  But.

I'm afraid that if I cut out the whole inner sill, the shell will lose its structural integrity.  And from what I've seen looking down the driver's side sill, it's "only" the inner's bottom third that's diseased.  So I'll give it a go.

What could possibly go wrong?  (I've been asking myself that question almost every weekend . . .)

B.t.w., do you perchance have an inner subframe bolt to spare?

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on February 14, 2021, 11:01:42 PM
I probably do, will have a look.

Tack the doors shut at the bottom rear, and then a cross piece between the bottoms of the B pillar. That will hold it X, Y and Z.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Rod on February 16, 2021, 09:15:51 PM
Hi Rob,

If Clay hasn't got an Inner Subframe bolt, let me know. I have four, from two subrame removals. However, only one of the four shows no corrison / rust. The other three have about 20% corrison mid shaft.

You are welcome to the good one.

Cheers Rod


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on February 19, 2021, 09:04:30 PM
Sorry Rob I don't have any  spare.  They were all rotten except the Ute. I had bought a set for the van. Ended up using those on th e Ute. No we I am using the Ute ones on the van. Go fig  as they say.

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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on February 19, 2021, 10:15:50 PM
Thanks for looking, Clay.  But Kevin came to the rescue, so all is good.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on February 21, 2021, 08:42:37 PM
Subframe off.  This is another thing where practice helps.
And, as advised earlier, I duly went nuts with the welder, then the grinder (shh - some of my welds were a bit on the ugly side.  Funny how the tighter the spot, the uglier the weld.)
Then some pressure-pak "Rust Reformer", and -

(https://i.imgur.com/3vPEu3Y.jpg)

One (1) Acme No.1 Body Crossmember.

Then I centre-punched the spot-welds along the RH sill bottom, drilled them, and got out with the Spot-Weld Separator (patent applied for).

(https://i.imgur.com/ZHrF2I8.jpg)

Don't you just love a good clear-vision sill?

I had a stroke of luck in the sheet-metal shop on Friday.  In the offcuts bin was a narrow strip of 1.6 sheet, and it was just the size I needed.  So the sheet-metal worker bent it to the right angle (not a right angle though).  Here it is, in place on the inner sill.  I need to slot and weld it for the drain slots (marked with chalk).

(https://i.imgur.com/gRylcTW.jpg)

And then I decided that I'd had enough for one weekend and went inside.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: 59wagon on February 21, 2021, 10:59:19 PM
Nice work with the cross member Rob.  The pig on a spit is a real bonus for this type of work, hey?

Cheers,

John


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on February 22, 2021, 07:27:58 AM
hey Rob ..can we borrow your off cut bin , just what we need a bin full of bits that just happen to be right size..Vern


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on February 22, 2021, 09:54:06 AM
Vern,

To quote Daffy Duck:  "Out out out, down down down, it's mine, do you hear me? It's mine!"

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on February 28, 2021, 12:40:31 PM
The "clear-vision" part of the driver's side inner sill -

(https://i.imgur.com/XQvDBEu.jpg)

I cut the return off the inner sill, then clamped the repair piece in place.  I then ran the cutting disc along the top edge of the repair section.  This is better than chalk-marking, because all I have to do is cut along the bright line.  Here is the repair section tacked in place:

(https://i.imgur.com/Y0jM77e.jpg)

And then I "coloured it in".  It's a bit of a task when kneeling.  Many pauses to get up and stretch.

(https://i.imgur.com/PcSLOBz.jpg)

I'll dress the weld down a little, and put some paint on the new repair to stop it rusting as soon as I look away.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on March 07, 2021, 04:40:31 PM
And now, one of the areas I'm not looking forward to repairing: the driver's side B-pillar bottom, jacking point and inner sill.  The first task was remove the bottom section of the division strip, so I could see what's underneath, and get some room to swing the angle grinder -

(https://i.imgur.com/suWG55F.jpg)

Not pretty.  There's very little anchoring the B-pillar to the body at the sill.  I figure I'll need to put some temporary patches in place to locate the B-pillar in position while I attempt the larger repairs.  I cut away more of the rusty metal, and then found the innermost U-section.  Here's one postage-stamp brace tacked in.  I put two more of similar sizes in the corners of the door openings.

(https://i.imgur.com/6haG1BA.jpg)

Is it a coincidence that the inner U-section has rusted out uniformly to a height of 10 mm above the outer sill all the way around, or this how it's meant to be?

But all this is in preparation for the removal of the body reinforcement/jacking point under the body.  And here was one place where the worker on the production line was enthusiastic with the spot-welder.  Ten spot-welds attached the bracket to the floor stiffening member, and when I sanded the returns on the inner sill, there was a spot-weld every half-inch.  That's when I decided to change from drilling to cutting.  And where I couldn't get the cutting disc in, I drilled a row of holes and then chiselled through.  A quick cut through what remained of the floor, and -

(https://i.imgur.com/NXuwJxC.jpg)

- thus exposing the rust hole in the inner sill.

Who's cutting up a body shell at the moment?  I'd like a driver's side body reinforcement/jacking point bracket . . .

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: DJ on March 07, 2021, 06:19:27 PM
Rob, this thread is a bit like a novel you can't put down. Each episode displays yet another confronting challenge that eclipses the last, while drawing even more from the main hero in each episode. I admire your stamina - it would have driven me to tears by now. Thanks for sharing how it really is, warts & all.


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on March 07, 2021, 08:30:07 PM
I'm having to take the long view on this project: each task takes as long as it takes, which is about twice as long as I think it'll take.

And so if I hear complaints about the cost of a paint job, or a roll-in-drive-out restoration, I think, "Or you can do the job yourself.  Then you'll see what your time is worth."

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: JB on March 08, 2021, 05:52:37 AM
I always looked at it as the more you do the less you have to do approach... then I look back at all of the bits I have fixed and what has been achieved. But never look too far past the next job at hand. That is what the list of jobs to do on the bench is for.
Good work mate, keep at it as I think that the best part of the build is the build itself.


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on March 08, 2021, 09:59:12 AM
Trivia time. Iíve got mainly FB and EK commercials as you know. They donít have the jacking point. I assume it was because they came with the bottle Jack rather than the lighter duty but more refined scissor jack. This leads me to the conclusion that the jacking point doesnít give much structural benefit, though every bit helps of course. Somewhere in my memory in the last few years I recall coming across a body that appeared unmolested, and only had the jacking point fitted on one side. It must have been the very early FB215 I cut up about four years ago. The one jacking point on the car was rusted out and I think discarded. Either that or buried under four years of accumulated parts.

What they did do to improve structural integrity in the FB commercial was to fit a full length third sill panel between inner and outer.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on March 09, 2021, 07:27:39 AM
Clay ..( Errol ) when you say bottle jack ,do you mean the screw jack that had the square drive on the handle ?


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on March 09, 2021, 07:49:24 AM
Yes Vern. Commercials came with bottle jack and no body jacking point.

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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on April 04, 2021, 11:07:26 AM
Back again.  So there was a gaping hole in the inner sill, inside of the jacking point.  I'd made up a replacement piece before the skies opened.  I just had to put the final bend in it for the lower return of the inner sill, then I marked the cut lines with chalk and went in gingerly with the angle grinder (and drilled a few more spot welds).

(https://i.imgur.com/pFdRXB2.jpg)

The body didn't sag (that I can tell) with this piece cut out, so that's a bonus.

I was wondering what I'd do with the internal sill reinforcement, but with the inner sill cut away, it makes sense to repair the reinforcement from the inside.  I "repurposed" a left-over section of a Rare Spares no. 1 body crossmember, and massaged the ribs into it.

Working late into the afternoon isn't recommended.  I wasn't a fantastic shot with the hammer, and struck my thumb a glancing blow.  I didn't think much of it, until a little while later I looked and saw red stuff coming out.  Micropore tape to the rescue, and I kept going until the repair piece was shaped.  Here's the repair, ready to graft into place.

(https://i.imgur.com/lyjyzUu.jpg)

The outer sill allows me to align the repair piece.  This is one advantage of repairing from the inside.

Oh, and I went off to Rares and bought half a dozen seat belt anchorages, which have a surface area of more than 3750 mm^2.  I have to cut the driver's side B-pillar open to fix the rust, so installing the anchorages will actually be easier.  But on the passenger's side I'll have to drill welds and open up an otherwise sound B-pillar.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on April 05, 2021, 05:36:55 PM
The reinforcement repair is welded in.

I marked up the B-pillar for the seat belt mounts (stole the measurements from my other FC), and made a useful discovery: on the top of the roof side rail directly above the B-pillar is a hole.  I fed a bicycle brake cable down the hole, and it didn't stop going in.  So I can feed a guide wire all the way down the B-pillar and pull the upper seat belt anchorage into position without having to open the B-pillar at the top.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: blacky on April 05, 2021, 11:10:55 PM
Rob,  are the jacking points left and right handed or symmetrical ? I have the next couple of days off so i will have a dig around in EKmart for a suitable replacement


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on April 05, 2021, 11:16:08 PM
Symmetrical.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: my8thholden on April 06, 2021, 07:03:21 AM
Rob ..Just something to ponder on , when discussing seat belt mounts with my inspection station guy ,he said if I put a mounting inside the B pillar he wont pass it because he can't see it ,he pointed out that there is a approved bolt kit for that purpose available ..We know he is refering to the rares B pillar kit ..which is not my preference ,but i went that way ,for several reasons ,the main one was I didn't need engineer for stock resto ,but would have to to get a inside pillar belt mount approved and  undercoat was about to go on body ...keep well Vern .


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on April 06, 2021, 09:29:25 AM
Blacky,

I thought the jacking points came in left and right side, although Clay says they're the same.
Clay, you can look it up in the master parts catalogue.

I'll still go with a driver's side, if available.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: mcl1959 on April 06, 2021, 12:00:57 PM
Vern every engineer Iíve dealt with is happy to accept internal seat belt mounts as long as they are well photographed. That is
A pic with ruler to show dimensions, radii etc of the plate and the nut.
A pic of the B pillar holes showing bolt position and weld through holes.
A pic of the plate in position with no welding done yet.
A pic of the plate after welding
Etc.
You can never take too many pics

Ken


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on April 06, 2021, 01:21:15 PM
In my ute was able to drill bolt hole and get hand in back of b pillar for top mount. Screwed tight then drilled and pop rivetted. Bottom mount could have gone in floor but b pillar tidier. Drilled bolt hole, cut above and down just enough to bend snd slip in plate and catch thread on bolt. Tightened up the enclosed hole, drilled and plug welded plate through pillar inner skin. Simples 8)

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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: blacky on April 06, 2021, 09:58:41 PM
 Unfortunately I don't have any good ones here Rob, its a shame you didn't need them a couple of months ago , i am certain there was a pair on the EK that sat upside down in the bush for many years, the bulk of all the normally rusty stuff on that ended up in Canberra for Brett's ute project, but being a ute those bits wouldn't have been required and are now on their way to china .......  :(


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on April 06, 2021, 10:06:33 PM
They are a mud trap and generally rusted through. Which is real handy when using scissor jack.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on April 18, 2021, 08:13:01 PM
Where was I?

Oh yes, driver's side B-pillar bottom.

After spending a couple of weekends mulling over what to do, I decided on a course of action -

(https://i.imgur.com/ahswKg2.jpg)

Brace the B-pillar in position and then slice clean through the diseased bit at the bottom (not shown).

The "floor" of the B-pillar is a raised section of the outer sill.  And of course, in this car, it's partially rusted away.  But it sits flat on top of the internal sill reinforcement, which I have repaired.  So in I went with the angle grinder, and cut the B-pillar's "floor" away.  And it fell out.  That's a good thing.  It has an internal return, which the B-pillar internal panel and the floor pan are welded to.  The remains of the Rare Spares no. 1 body crossmember section kept giving, and I made a repair section from it.  It's just about ready to graft in, but the sun made as if to set on me.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on April 25, 2021, 12:46:03 PM
Had a bit of a think during the week -

The driver's side B-pillar's open at the bottom.  This would be an ideal time to install seat belt anchorages.  But if you follow the rules exactly, modifications to or installation of seat belt anchorages require an engineer's certification.

There's a licensed restraint fitting station down the road from work.  So I went and talked to them.

If I was fitting lap-only belts, no problem, because the anchorages are visible from under the car.  But because I'm installing mounts inside the B-pillars, that's a problem.  And also, if the car was still registered, I could do pretty much as I pleased.  The hurdle arises because I have to get the car blue-slipped.

There's no way around it.  I have now engaged an engineer to certify the installation.

No more work on the B-pillar for a while.  Instead -  the jacking point.  Just for a lark, I took it into work and let loose with Mister Sand-Blast.

(https://i.imgur.com/E4kmtDv.jpg)

There are many more holes than I had imagined.  At the last car club meeting, one of the guys suggested I "just" fabricate a new one.  "You can make it out of three pieces of sheet metal and weld them together."

Long, hard look at the jacking point.  Apart from the folded returns, the sides are flat, and the bottom can be bent up easily.  So I made a jig out of wood.  Not for shaping, just as a fitting template.

(https://i.imgur.com/PWL9NZD.jpg)

And then, three paper patterns - one for each side, and one for the bottom.  The offcuts rack in the sheet-metal works provided a piece of 2 mm cold-rolled sheet.

(https://i.imgur.com/F04bomm.jpg)

Now to make it happen . . .

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on April 25, 2021, 08:02:56 PM
It almost happened.

The sun went down before I got out with the welder, but the three pieces are in place, ready to glue together.

(https://i.imgur.com/IzVgtRR.jpg)

(There is a little more work to do, like using some pipe and a towball to make the "dimple" . . .)

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on April 25, 2021, 09:15:28 PM
Nice work Rob. Iíll take a pair when you go in to mass production, so I can use a scissor jack on the ute. 😜


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on May 02, 2021, 02:21:07 PM
When I mentioned to the engineer that the car was a bare shell on rotisserie, he said I'd need to install a front seat, temporarily, so he could fix the location of the upper seat belt anchorage on the B-pillar.  I made a counter-offer: I have an exactly similar FC sedan; could he use that one as a "prototype" for measurements?  This was OK, so I drove my "other" FC out to him during the week.  The engineer gave me a set of dimensions, starting from the front seat cushion at a reference point, upwards a certain distance, then projected horizontally onto the B-pillar.

Today I measured and marked up my "other" FC, found the correct position, measured downwards from the headlining retainer, and transferred that dimension to "Found Object".  Then I drilled the B-pillars for the seat belt bolt and two plug-welds:

(https://i.imgur.com/BoNy0wn.jpg)

Then I de-burred the holes, and fed a guide-wire down the hole in the roof rail until it came out the bottom of the driver's side B-pillar.

Now or never.  I attached the anchor plate to the guide wire, and with the shell tipped over to the right, pulled the anchor plate up the B-pillar until it cleared the check strap mount.  Then I tipped the shell back upright, and drew on the wire further until I could see the anchor plate through the holes.  I needed to make the shell level fore-and-aft so the threaded hole lined, up, and after some work with a centre-punch through the hole, picked up the nut with a 7/16" UNF bolt.  Before tightening the bolt, I pulled the guide-wire out, then centred the anchor plate; and only then tightened the bolt to hold the anchor plate in place.

(https://i.imgur.com/EJdWvcU.jpg)

That's a relief.

The passenger's side B-pillar will be more difficult.  It doesn't have the hole in the roof rail*, and I'll need to open it up at the bottom to admit the anchor plates . . . lots of spot welds to drill there.

And the engineer has told me not to close up the B-pillars until he has inspected the installation from the inside of the pillars.

Rob

* Question for Ken:  Would the hole in the roof rail above the driver's side B-pillar be there to feed a wire down for a pillar courtesy light, like what Business models used to have?


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: mcl1959 on May 02, 2021, 04:07:39 PM
Yes, I think youíre right. Otherwise impossible to install the wiring for the switch.

Ken


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on May 02, 2021, 04:24:44 PM
Ten minutes of setting up the welder, and thirty seconds of welding: the seat belt anchor plate is plug-welded.

And while I had the welder out, I zipped up the seams of the jacking point:

(https://i.imgur.com/pAhLuj9.jpg)

Rob

(I might just be able to drill a 1/4" dia hole in the roof rail on top of the passenger's side B-pillar to let a guide-wire down.  Would be a great help if I could, but may require a right-angle drive for the drill.)


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: mcl1959 on May 03, 2021, 05:34:01 PM
Rob, seems like a lot of trouble to run a guide wire down, what about cutting a slot in the B pillar under where the rubber goes. Attach a piece of stiff wire to the plate and insert it that way?
Just a thought.

Ken


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on May 09, 2021, 03:09:52 PM
Passenger's side B-pillar.

I drilled about six inches of spot welds on the lower part of the B-pillar, and then cut through the inside skin at the bottom of the pillar.  It didn't really want to bend inwards, so I drilled out another half-dozen spot welds.  I could now "spring" the inner skin inwards enough to get a seat belt anchor plate inside.  (Note chisel performing this important task.)

(https://i.imgur.com/pUeStPT.jpg)

But first:  the guide-wire.  I drilled a hole in the roof rail, and then fed the guide-wire down.  It took a few attempts to thread it down behind the check strap mount, then I could hook it out of the pillar.  I attached the anchor plate to the wire, worked it into the pillar, then lifted it up inside the pillar, tilting the body shell as I went.  Drew the anchor plate into place, and it had turned around the wrong way - nut facing inwards.  I had to tilt the shell over a bit, turn the guide wire half a turn, then tilt the shell back.  Then I could pick the anchor plate up with a 7/16" UNF bolt, disengage the guide-wire, tighten the bolt, and weld the anchor plate in place.

The lower anchor plate was almost as much of a fiddle, because I was using a steel rule and a screwdriver to position it inside the pillar until I could pick the nut up with a bolt.  But it lined up, and here it is, welded in place:

(https://i.imgur.com/EZFFcwl.jpg)

I can't really do anything more until I get the engineer to inspect the anchor plate installation inside the B-pillars.  The anchor plates on the transmission tunnel will have to wait until I've replaced the rear floor pans.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on May 09, 2021, 08:31:16 PM
Gee a lot of effort Rob. You have to leave the b pillar open for the eng to view? I just drilled hole, then cut through panel above and sides a bit, then bent open and slid it in, catching it on bolt, tighten up, straighten panel and stitch shut, also resulting in tacking the plate to the back of the panel. Bit of grind and bog, done.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on May 09, 2021, 10:44:33 PM
Yes.  On all counts.  The engineer needs to put a snake camera up the inside of the B-pillar.  You could probably gain access through the rear door check strap slot, but instructions were to leave the pillars open at the bottom.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Harv on May 10, 2021, 08:16:31 AM
I found out the hard way about that borescope (same engineer). The gentleman who did my bodywork did a great job fabricating C-pillar plates in my wagon. Lots of photos, and a tracing of the shape. Come inspection time (with the car painted), the borescope came out. The plates were made from 6mm steel plate, and had been tapped 7/16UNF. Engineer was not happy with the drill-and-tap approach, as the 6mm thread depth is less than a 7/16UNF nut (9.8mm). Had to fit nuts behind the plate, and make them captive. The EK wagon C-pillars are open at the bottom, but clash with the wheel arch. Took a good full day of gymnastics with bent wire to get them in there.

Cheers,
Harv


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on May 16, 2021, 04:42:27 PM
I arranged a second inspection with the engineer, and in the course of conversation found out that he needs to inspect all the anchor plate installations (not just the ones inside the B-pillar).  There's no point in getting him out twice, so I postponed the inspection until I have all six anchor plates in place.  So the order of tasks has been shuffled around again.

I mounted an anchor plate inside the driver's side B-pillar, but only put one plug weld in.  The inner face of the B-pillar will be the last piece to be repaired, and I'll most likely have to cut off above the lower plug weld hole.

(https://i.imgur.com/SaK2HgQ.jpg)

Putting the driver's side transmission tunnel anchor plate in was "just" a case of getting flat on my back under my other FC and transferring measurements to "Found Object".  The transmission tunnel on the driver's side is sound, quite unlike -

- The Floor Pan of Festiness.

(https://i.imgur.com/1v3NgQX.jpg)

The seat belt anchor plate would attach to thin air on this side.  I called up Rare Spares late last week to enquire about a LHR floor pan.  Good thing I did, as availability is the classic builders' "Narkup" (refer entry in Lauder, Afferbeck, Let Stalk Strine: Sydney, 1965).  So . . . I made up a newspaper pattern for the transmission tunnel and part of the rear floor.  But what I was running short of was 1 mm sheet.

There used to be a long-running ad in the "Accelerator" magazine which said, "Keep Your Holden All Holden".

So I am keeping my Holden Holden, rather than, say, Simpson, or Westinghouse, or Brownbuilt.  I sliced the skin off an old FJ rear door, traced the pattern onto the skin, and brushed up on my tailoring skills.

(https://i.imgur.com/JZoWpZt.jpg)

I had serious doubts about the wisdom of fabricating a repair section, when surely a replacement floor pan would be a better idea.  But I'm almost certain that the replacement floor pans don't reach as far up the tunnel as I want to go.  Yet, it came together a little more easily than I thought.  Still have to graft it in though.  And then I still have to attach the seat belt anchor plate.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Harv on May 16, 2021, 05:23:42 PM
Did the engineer get toey about the separation between the anchor plates (165mm minimum "across the hips" of a passenger and 250-350mm recommended, >200mm between any two adjacent bolts, no two belts may share a bolt)?

Cheers,
Harv


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on May 16, 2021, 07:44:18 PM
Harv,

No, he didn't.  After establishing the correct location for the shoulder anchor plates in the B-pillars, I asked him about the locations of the others in my grey FC, and he said they were fine.  So I guess that the >200 mm dimension is an along-the-surface measurement, and not necessarily straight-line.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on May 16, 2021, 08:11:39 PM
That's how I interpereted it when installing on my ute.

Nice work on the floor. I have a rear passenger pan from RS. Only goes up 60mm from memory.

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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on May 29, 2021, 05:43:37 PM
A weekend's delay while I bought tyres in Yass.

It had to do with the "blank look index".  And when you want to buy 165/80R15 tyres, and with tubes, oh and also with TR13-to-TR15 valve stem ferrules, it got a little too much for my local tyre place.  More for a chuckle than anything else, I called the tyre shop in Yass, asked three questions and got three immediate replies in the affirmative.  So they got my business.

Meanwhile, back at the rough-as-guts bodyworks, I tried something new: trace around the replacement section, subtract a couple of sheet thicknesses, slice along the dotted line, and commence tack-welding.  It worked quite well.

(https://i.imgur.com/TheFL5f.jpg)

I stitched it up three-quarters of the way around, leaving the future join with the Rare Spares floor as tack-welds, but it got too dark for a decent photo.

But once you factor in stretch from the panel-pressing, and the inevitable rust, the metal on the tunnel is thin.  Even with the welder at minimum current, I blew holes and had to make "detours" to fill them in.  The "stack-the-dots" technique seems to work the best with metal this thin.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: zulu on May 30, 2021, 08:52:47 AM
Rob,

recently had the same blank look / response re the ferruls, good luck trying to find any in the metro area, or even anyone who knows what they are or what you're talking about, even with an old sample!

Looks like found object is receiving deserved treatment, keep up the good work



Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on May 30, 2021, 02:34:27 PM
Transmission tunnel repair section is now in place, with all the seams (bar one) stitched up, and the seat belt anchor plate installed.

(https://i.imgur.com/bQWZMVG.jpg)

I can now get the engineer out to inspect the anchor plate installation.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on May 30, 2021, 07:39:52 PM
Youíve been busy. It looks like the car was left parked on the camber with the rear drivers window open.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on June 27, 2021, 05:21:51 PM
On Friday, "w.f.h.", I started to reconstruct the driver's B-pillar.  First was to put the "roof" back on the outer sill: one fabricated patch, and then some postage-stamp repairs, and finally some rust holes to colour in with the welder.

(https://i.imgur.com/vPtMK2T.jpg)

That was a day's work (fabricating repair section not included).  Next: join the B-pillar to the reconstructed sill.  The part inside the RHR door opening was two small repair sections, cut, bent, butt-welded and plug-welded.

(https://i.imgur.com/3oWWUMb.jpg)

That was a day's work.  Similarly for the part inside the driver's door opening.

(https://i.imgur.com/oXUWEFG.jpg)

The possibility now exists to spend fourteen more days straight on my aptly-named coronavirus project.  Maybe, just maybe, I'll get the B-pillars completed.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on June 27, 2021, 11:22:22 PM
Pity I canít pop around for a look see 8 (


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on July 03, 2021, 04:39:50 PM
Two weeks' worth of "working from home" was a forlorn hope.  On Monday I was informed that I am an essential worker, so (delicious irony) I had to fill in "working from work" forms and submit them to HR.

No, I am not making this up.  And I was one of three people in the corridor working from work.

Progress (of sorts) closing up the driver's side B-pillar:

(https://i.imgur.com/dT1bGq1.jpg)

And then, one more piece cut to shape, bent to fit, and stitched into place:

(https://i.imgur.com/zfSO2TB.jpg)

I'll wait until after the outer sill is replaced before re-fitting the division strip.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on July 04, 2021, 05:30:12 PM
Today's effort: some tidying up around the base of the B-pillar, a small repair to the inner sill, removal of the diseased part of the inner skin, and some paint inside the pillar.

(https://i.imgur.com/ia56DlK.jpg)

Then I fabricated the repair to the B-pillar's inner skin.  Here it is, complete with holes for plug welds.

(https://i.imgur.com/sp4igTY.jpg)

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: fcwrangler on July 06, 2021, 06:14:07 PM
Good progress Rob, a word of warning though. If you are fitting a centre seat belt you will need to have separate plates as the rules now state one bolt per plate. I had to change mine on the tunnel front and rear.
Jim


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: fcwrangler on July 06, 2021, 06:16:37 PM
Oops, that should be one belt anchor  per plate.


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on July 06, 2021, 07:58:01 PM
Thanks Jim - but I'm only fitting two seat belts to the front.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on July 11, 2021, 05:26:43 PM
I spent the weekend dodging raindrops.  The sky cleared.  I started work.  It rained.  I packed everything away.
 The sky cleared.  Repeat.  But this was a looong time coming -

(https://i.imgur.com/10wyFpz.jpg)

The driver's side B-pillar is closed up.

And yea verily, there was much rejoicing.

I poured some fishoil into the pillar, tipped the shell onto its side, then wadded paper towel into the base of the B-pillar to sop the fishoil up, and welded the last repair piece in place.  Nothing caught fire.  (And yes, I removed the paper towel before welding.)

The inner sill repair piece needed about 3 mm trimmed off the top return, and it went into place easily.

Next task: plug-weld the passenger's side B-pillar.  Rear door jamb: easy as.  Front door jamb: the welds spat and carried on.  And of course, in chipping away at the base of the B-pillar, a few pinholes became thumbnail-size.  Nowhere near as bad as the driver's side (fortunately), so I could get away with colouring-in and grinding back.  I fixed a few little holes in the top of the outer sill, and then called it quits for the weekend.

(https://i.imgur.com/C6ewOAT.jpg)

There are a few more repairs to do on the top of the LH sill, but in the scheme of things, they're quite straightforward.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on July 18, 2021, 04:35:06 PM
I spent the weekend chipping away at rust, then filling holes, either with the welder alone, or with pieces of sheet.

(https://i.imgur.com/nc6AIVY.jpg)

Honourable mention to the angle grinder, too.

It doesn't look like much, but there are now no holes in the top of the passenger's side sill.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on July 25, 2021, 05:00:35 PM
The major part of this weekend's effort was to repair the . . . if it was a plane I'd call it a longeron . . . the longitudinal member that goes under the floor pans.  This is where the famous sill reinforcement/jacking point sits.  The challenge was in working out what features to put in when.  The lengthwise "joddle" was first, followed by the profiles at each end of the repair piece.  Then there was a gentle bend, which I gauged with the old jacking point.

Here are the old and new:

(https://i.imgur.com/MF81kQs.jpg)

Then I welded the repair in place, along with another postage-stamp repair -

(https://i.imgur.com/jTeM6Sv.jpg)

Bending the final return, at the outside edge, waited until now.  I figured it was easier to do it with the piece held firmly in place.  A few short welds to finish off, and -

(https://i.imgur.com/ZKzT56h.jpg)

(Photo taken lying down, with camera upside-down.  Note relative positions of body and ground.)

Other than that, I patched a few holes in the top of the RH sill, and cut a foot or so off the RH outer sill at the rear, just to get an idea of the state of the inner sill.  The rear fifteen inches are about half air and half metal.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on July 25, 2021, 07:06:04 PM
I am very familiar with the aspect you speak of Rob. I hope it was warmer in Sydney than Willunga today, for lying under cars on concrete. Good progress.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on July 25, 2021, 07:43:51 PM
Yeah (I hope).  It was 15, windy, but sunny.  Welder doesn't like wind.


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Roybeth on July 26, 2021, 07:45:55 AM
Yeah (I hope).  It was 15, windy, but sunny.  Welder doesn't like wind.

Wow so warm - topped out at 9.3o here yesterday  - and the wind I'm sure made it much colder - I spent a bit of time rummaging around for parts but was just toooo cold to do anything - brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on August 01, 2021, 04:59:09 PM
This is the rearmost part of the driver's side inner sill, or to be pedantic, what remains of it.

(https://i.imgur.com/TiLGCn7.jpg)

I found an offcut of 1.6 in the sheet-metal shop, and using the section I cut out of the inner sill below the B-pillar as a template, the sheetie made up an 18" section of inner sill.  This time, I thought I'd have a shot at pressing the dimples into the inner sill.  One of the guys on FB-EK described how he did it with a home-made die, a socket, and a vice.

Peering inside the sill for a good place to cut, and guessing where the inner sill would have ended gave me 14-1/2" in length.  The dimples are 2" dia at the base, and 1-1/2" dia at the top.  They're 4 mm deep (units, sorry).  On this part of the sill, the dimples are spaced at 3-1/4" intervals, and are centred 1-1/2" below the top return of the inner sill.

I found one of my father's bowl blanks - a piece of hardwood with a 2" dia recess turned into the base.  I put a big Jubilee clip around it so it wouldn't split, and measured up my sockets.  The 1-1/8" socket was 1-1/2" OD.  So far so good.

Mark up inner sill section.  Check marking-up, only to discover that my reference was at the wrong end.  Remove markings.  Mark section again, with arrows indicating top and front.  Compare marked-up repair section with the inner sill again.  Go to work with the home-made press tooling . . .

OK, but - the metal bows in every direction, requiring straightening work with vice, hammer and dolly.  Once that's done, it looks satisfactory.

(https://i.imgur.com/zEN3kJp.jpg)

Now to remove the inner sill section, while keeping as much as possible of the floor and the box-section just in front of the rear wheel arch.  The floor and the flange of the box section will locate the inner sill repair.  I sliced off another few inches of the outer sill to give me room to swing the angle grinder and drill.  From the inside of the sill, I could see where the spot-welds were.  I drilled through them with a 1/8" drill, and then got out with the spot weld drill from on top.  I cut half-way up the inner sill with the angle grinder, and finished the cut off with a hacksaw.  I tried to pull the inner sill piece out, but it didn't want to move.  Found another spot weld and drilled it.  Ping!  And out came what was left of the inner sill (bottom half sliced off so I could get the drill in).

(https://i.imgur.com/xz6Kp6G.jpg)

The astute observer will notice an "oops" here.  The return isn't wide enough for most of its length.  I just blindly used the section I cut out at the base of the B-pillar.  Didn't think that the return is of different width here.  I'll fix that with Mister MIG.

But now that the inner sill's out, I can get into the U-section at the front of the rear wheel arch.  It's complicated by the ribs, and also because none of the fold lines are straight lines.  I'm going to repair it in three pieces (which I'll have to do on the passenger's side too).

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on August 01, 2021, 10:51:27 PM
Very good progress Rob 👍

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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on August 07, 2021, 05:38:38 PM
Other things get in the way . . . my Humpy took badly to sitting idle in lockdown, developed relevance deprivation syndrome, and leaked brake fluid onto the carport floor.  It just needed new seals in the RHR wheel cylinder, but it took me all day.  Cleaning parts takes time.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Harv on August 07, 2021, 06:38:34 PM
It could be worse. The FB did that tooÖ puddle under LHR wheel. I drove it 5m out of the shed to get at other stuff. Handbrake on. Later that evening reversed it back. Forgot it had no brakes. Could not find the handbrake quick enough. Hit the shed roller door 2x4 post and drove it back 8Ē. Got out of the car, fearing the worst. It had hit the tail light fin chrome. No damage to the car. Fibro shed needed some love.

Kids still laugh at me.

Cheees,
Harv


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on August 08, 2021, 04:04:18 PM
Heh heh heh hehÖÖ

Lucky!


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on August 15, 2021, 05:42:17 PM
Back onto "Found Object" . . .  I'm getting closer to the rear wheel arch.  The ribbed U-section at the front of the wheel arch is a favourite of the metal-mice.  I thought I could make the front and bottom of the section out of one piece, but you can do things with paper that you can't with sheet metal.  The fold lines are not straight, for example, so one piece of sheet became two.  Here's the front section, with ribs, welded in place:

(https://i.imgur.com/ylFRXc2.jpg)

Easy access with a camera to take a photo does not translate to easy access with the welder.  No.  Once the scone and helmet are in place, there's not much room left for the handpiece.  And then the helmet knows when conditions are not ideal, and fogs up.  I was largely flying blind.

The bottom section was more of a challenge to fabricate, because of the returns.  But it came good with a few tack welds, followed by massaging with a hammer.

(https://i.imgur.com/N1Z6Ihn.jpg)

Still to go is the part of the U-section you can see from the inside of the wheel arch.  It's rotten up the top where it meets the wheel arch and floor, and also on the lower outer part.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on August 16, 2021, 11:32:39 AM
That will be part three of the series. A lot easier if you have the car on a rotisserie Rob, with apologises for stating the obvious. Keep up the thorough work. 

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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on August 22, 2021, 04:02:53 PM
Part Three (as advertised): rear wall of U-section in front of RHR wheel arch, together with the remains of the old one -

(https://i.imgur.com/yyWnrwQ.jpg)

I'm building a shortage at the moment.  I was able to make this repair section out of a piece of FJ rear door, but otherwise, I've run out of 1 mm mild steel sheet.  Bunnings sells 1.6 hot-rolled sheet, and 0.95 mm galvanised.  But galvanising and the welder don't agree with each other.  I'll have to ask the sheet-metal worker most politely if he wouldn't mind cutting up a sheet.

Once trimmed to size, it was easy enough to stitch the repair into place:

(https://i.imgur.com/Hzk7iJw.jpg)

Of course, it's tempting to continue with repairs to the dogleg and rear wheel arch while the sill is wide open.  A good idea, in fact.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on August 29, 2021, 04:53:05 PM
The RH dogleg, with a piece of the door seal retainer removed:

(https://i.imgur.com/RqzzLDe.jpg)

I made a paper pattern, and transferred it to sheet steel, complete with some cuts to allow for stretching.  It seemed easiest to use the dogleg as a form for shaping the repair piece.

(https://i.imgur.com/BIFakDI.jpg)

I used whatever was handy (a stick and a wheel nut) to hold the section in place while I shaped it over the dogleg.

Then I traced around the section, and made a few cuts.  Had to finish off the cuts with a hacksaw blade in a few places.

As the saying goes, "Cut your way in, . . . "

(https://i.imgur.com/DRFGUIA.jpg)

And yes, there'll be a few more small pieces to cut out and replace yet.  But I can see inside now.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on September 04, 2021, 02:57:40 PM
" . . . and weld your way out."

(https://i.imgur.com/V4MT7JG.jpg)

The rain held off just long enough to make one repair section and glue it into place.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on September 05, 2021, 05:09:06 PM
Another three small repairs today.

(https://i.imgur.com/6IOBu9T.jpg)

It's just fiddly.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: camxsmith on September 05, 2021, 09:44:47 PM
Mate I know the pain of that only just finishing mine ...  I think most others FE FC members have just finished they sessions with their therapists on this one ...  ;)


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on September 12, 2021, 05:43:42 PM
Two days of cutting and shaping sheet metal, and half an hour of welding:

(https://i.imgur.com/11qTPSa.jpg)

This time I took the photo from inside the wheel arch.  It's the usual thing - one repair piece per day seems to be my pace.  But the sun was still up, so I welded up the cuts in the outer repair piece:

(https://i.imgur.com/83yY4Lq.jpg)

It's even got some "Rust Reformer" on it now, inside and out.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on September 18, 2021, 01:58:34 PM
. . . and weld your way out.

(https://i.imgur.com/CCaLtpO.jpg)

 - Rain Stops Play -

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on September 19, 2021, 01:17:09 PM
Every so often, things appear to take a big step forward.  I spliced in a fair-size section of inner sill this morning.

(https://i.imgur.com/3WpXhRF.jpg)

Once I had it trimmed to size, lining it up wasn't too difficult.  I traced around the U-section to work out where to drill the holes for plug welds, and used the returns of the U-section to get the repair piece co-planar with the inner sill.  Then a tack weld at the front, and another at the rear.  It only took a few taps with a hammer to get it looking pretty good by eye, and I welded the join at the front.  Next were the plug welds.

One minor oops: I didn't put in the drain at the rear bottom before welding the piece in, although I put in the one at the rear top.  The missing drain can wait until I replace the outer sill.

And Of Course:  Rust scale pinged off the remaining part of the inner sill, revealing some holes around where the chassis member joins the sill.

Lunch time.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on September 19, 2021, 08:08:39 PM
Progress. What is this top drain hole you speak of?

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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on September 19, 2021, 09:56:47 PM
Clay,

You know the long, narrow drain slots along the sill . . . the ones which are either (a) spot-welded shut at the factory, (b) sealed up with bitumen at the factory, or (c) sealed up with mud?  They are also present along the top face of the inner sill.  (a), (b) and (c) still apply, though.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on September 19, 2021, 11:22:16 PM
Ok, haven't noticed these, though my van the inners have been entirely replaced. I'll have to get under the ute and have a decent look.

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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on October 02, 2021, 01:17:20 PM
A couple of weekends ago, I formed up the piece of rear floor pan immediately in front of the rear wheel arch.  It's got a return at the very end, where it's spot-welded to the rear wheel arch.  I thought I got the profile right, but, of course, the closer you get it to its intended location, the worse it gets.  So I had to cut through the return, bend the piece to a better shape, then weld and dress the return again.  Here it is, in place.

(https://i.imgur.com/8y7hyOn.jpg)

And the usual follow-on effects.  Rust scale became pinholes, which then grew as I welded them up shut.  And the astute observer will notice charring of the cotton waste.  A weld-quenching rag serves more than one purpose . . .

And a couple of weekends ago, I remarked that there were some new holes around where the chassis member joins the inner sill . . . and naively I thought I could "just" weld them up . . . Here is what it looks like from the inside (after some work with the MAP gas torch and a wire brush):

(https://i.imgur.com/RUb0eqQ.jpg)

As usual, the bottom section of the inner sill will need to be replaced, making it 100% of the lower quarter of the RH inner sill.  Tel est mon sort.

Rob



Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Harv on October 03, 2021, 09:46:57 AM
Tel est mon sort.

Pensez coupe soudure meulage pense.

Cheers,
Harv


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on October 03, 2021, 12:21:33 PM
Always amusing to translate back:

(Youse) think, cup, soldering, grinding, (you) think.  The semantic range of the French words includes several possible translations into English.


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Harv on October 03, 2021, 01:12:40 PM
Cup? I thought it was "cut".

Then again, cup perhaps makes better sense  ;D

Cheers,
Harv


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on October 03, 2021, 02:04:31 PM
Cup (the thing you drink out of) is une coupe, so the World Cup is one, for example.
To cut is couper, and its past participle is coupe (with an acute accent), hence two-door.

Where were we?  Cogitavi, secui, solidavi, molui, cogitavique -

(https://i.imgur.com/GDcNR45.jpg)

That's pretty much the entire length of the RH inner sill repaired.  Time's approaching when I can replace the outer sill.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on October 04, 2021, 01:03:46 PM
The LH dogleg, with the bottom part of the door seal retainer removed:

(https://i.imgur.com/UpuSQAP.jpg)

I traced out a paper pattern, made a cut to allow for stretching, and transferred it to sheet metal.  I used the bodywork as a form to beat the metal around -

(https://i.imgur.com/Xnl3LAF.jpg)

Now it's time to see how diseased the dogleg is inside.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on October 04, 2021, 06:18:22 PM
Inside the dogleg:

(https://i.imgur.com/gUjGgAA.jpg)

I've seen worse.  The driver's side, for example.  Still as many pieces to replace, though.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on October 09, 2021, 05:37:40 PM
I filled in the hole in the sill, did a few postage-stamp repairs, and the inside of the dogleg looks a lot better -

(https://i.imgur.com/8dJSDKM.jpg)

Then I grafted a piece into the notch in the outside repair section, dressed the welds down, and painted it on the inside.  It's just about ready to be welded into place.

(https://i.imgur.com/I3yAplF.jpg)

The V-notches at the bottom are the "poor person's" holes for plug-welding.

And then, with the curtains fading and the garden plants wilting, I made up one of the three pieces needed to repair the U-section at the front of the LHR wheel arch.

(https://i.imgur.com/epltlHx.jpg)

There are another two of those to make.  Then I can cut away most of the U-section and replace a short length of the lower inner sill.  And I'll have to chop out and replace about three inches of the outer sill too.  But by the standards of this vehicle, the outer sill is in pristine condition.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on October 10, 2021, 04:29:53 PM
I spent the day cutting and forming sheet metal.

Here are the three repair pieces for the U-section just in front of the LHR wheel arch:

(https://i.imgur.com/4jCnF87.jpg)

The patch for the inner sill is most easily done by asking the sheetie at work to cut and bend a piece of 1.6 for me.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on October 17, 2021, 01:07:16 PM
Distractions (again) - Helper Spring.

(https://i.imgur.com/x4TJuRL.jpg)

Do not laugh.

I broke the left rear spring in my Humpy in June, and now that I can go more than 5 km, I can get the replacement springs rebuilt.  But how to put the car back on its feet and keep it mobile when one back spring's been removed?

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on October 17, 2021, 06:03:33 PM
I did do some work for "Found Object" this weekend - I made a profile of the U-section in front of the LHR wheel arch as an aid to reassembly after I cut the rotten bits out:

(https://i.imgur.com/GdblpJp.jpg)

There are times when having a geologist as father helps.  The device at centre bottom is called a contact goniometer.  It measures the angle between crystal faces, but any solid object will do.  With the goniometer and a tape measure, I could transfer the profile of the U-section onto cardboard.  And when the major dimensions come out as multiples of 1/4", it's a fair bet that the chassis engineer designed the profile that way.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Harv on October 18, 2021, 07:19:30 AM
I learnt something today. I thought I had a fancy protractor for measuring brass fitting seat faces (SAE 45o versus 37o AN versus the funky 60o Lucas) on old carbs and fuel kit. Never knew it was a contact goniometer  :)

Cheers,
Harv


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Maco on October 18, 2021, 08:04:34 PM
I learnt something today. I thought I had a fancy protractor for measuring brass fitting seat faces (SAE 45o versus 37o AN versus the funky 60o Lucas) on old carbs and fuel kit. Never knew it was a contact goniometer  :)

Cheers,
Harv

Me too Harv, I have an Engineers Protractor in my kit of tools.


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on October 24, 2021, 05:51:12 PM
With the three repair pieces for the U-section trimmed reasonably well to size, I cut most of the U-section out to gain access to the inner sill . . .

As usual, scope-creep set in.  I thought I only needed to repair the bottom 30 mm or so of the inner sill, but I started to chip rust scale away and changed my mind.

I know what the inner sill's profile is.  Pressing the "dimple" is not too great a problem.  The drain slots require an angle-grinder cut, some hammer-and-vice work, and a weld.  So I decided to cut off and replace the rearmost five inches of the inner sill (masking tape showing cut-line).

(https://i.imgur.com/2rCGYWS.jpg)

And then I'll have easy access to the end of the outer sill when time comes to patch it.

Relevance Deprivation Syndrome (III):  my grey FC's generator packed it in this afternoon.  I might, in view of parts availability, have to change my allegiance back to the Prince Of Darkness . . .

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: Errol62 on October 24, 2021, 11:52:14 PM
I can have a look at the engines Iíve got and see if any have Bosch gens Rob.


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Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on October 31, 2021, 04:57:58 PM
I repaired the rear section of the LH outer sill this weekend.  I welded up a couple of pinholes close to the cut-line for the inner sill repair, crossed my fingers, guessed the size of the repair piece, and made a paper pattern.  On straightening out the paper pattern, its outline was exactly the same size as the offcut piece left over from making the inner sill repair.  That doesn't happen too often.  The main outer sill repair piece came to shape fairly easily with the aid of a profile template.

(https://i.imgur.com/cKvmMt1.jpg)

Weld shrinkage got me a little.  Not much.  I hammered the vertical weld from inside the sill cavity, holding a dolly on the outside, and that helped a lot.  But the very bottom rear corner bowed out of line maybe 2 mm.  You wouldn't notice it really.  I would, though.  So I made an angle-grinder cut along the main fold line at the bottom, eased the metal into position with hammer and dolly, and zipped it up with the welder.  This was one time where I could use metal shrinkage to my own advantage.

Which just left the sill/wheel arch lip to do.  It was easy enough to form to shape, as it's not curved in two directions at once.  Then I ground the welds down, and "Rust Reformer"-d the repair to stop it from rusting immediately.

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: ardiesse on November 29, 2021, 09:49:05 PM
So I'd better make the token post for November.  Three wet weekends in a row, with more forecast to come . . .

(https://i.imgur.com/OZNJH8Z.jpg)

There were a couple of pinholes in the bottom of the LH outer sill, close to the front.  By the time I'd finished welding them up, there were a half-dozen of them.  Hindsight suggests that cutting off and replacing a six-inch section may have been a more thorough solution.

And in the "correcting my own mistakes" department, I fixed up the alignment of the inner sill return at the cowl bottom (slice through weld, insert tapered piece of sheet, re-weld).

Rob


Title: Re: Found Object
Post by: RichFC on November 30, 2021, 07:39:08 AM
Nothing "token" about your posts Rob !
I'm absolutely certain I am not the only member here to be the beneficiary of your wisdom and know how.
In fact, every Monday morning when I arrive early to work I open the forum and do a quick scan for "found object" hoping
there will be a "new' post from you to read and enjoy.{no pressure} :) 
Your posts are extremely educational and your attention to detail is second to none !
On a personal note, I also wanted to thank you publicly for all the time, effort and generosity you've shown me over the years, with
not only technical advice but also the surprise visits and long drives to my house to help me sort out a pressing problem with one of my cars
and not leaving until the problem is solved.
This is such an excellent club with great and generous members and is a pleasure to be part of.
Merry Christmas everyone and let's hope 2022 is vastly different to the last couple we've endured.
Richard.