Unknown FE Colours

[Cat]

I've been doing a little investigation into the paint colours for my two 1958 FE's a Special Sedan and Station Sedan, and I've come up with a few problems!  So, I'm hoping someone can help.

Sedan first.  The numbers are:
Trim: 286 - 717 (Persian Turquoise & Parchment Ivory)
Paint: 256 - 7698 (Castle Grey)
RPO: 253 - 7179

On the original sales receipt it clearly states TC is Turquoise Blue and Castle Grey.  I've checked the colours on the FEFC website and the Paint Codes 286 (presumably Turquoise Blue over Castle Grey) and 7179 (presumably the Turquiose Blue) are not listed.
This explains why the Turquoise Blue is not available on Craig's car colour code programme.  Any ideas?

Secondly, the Station Sedan colours are also perplexing.
The numbers are:
Trim: 212 (Castle Grey over Corsair Tan) - 732 (Morocco Tan & Egret Ivory)
Paint: 253 - 7689

On Sunday I got the colour code from Craig's Poo Mobile and Corsair Tan is 7699.  But the number on my car is definitely 89 not 99 and not listed on the website either.  This is perplexing when the Paint Code 212 is the right one for Corsair Tan :-/  

I have always been told the Old Girl was Corsair Tan since I was a kid, but after seeing the Poo Mobile and compaing colours my car is definitely more of a salmon colour and not as poo-ish.

I know this car was a Directors car, so is it likely that they changed the colour???  If so, does anyone know what colour 7689 is?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Cat

[craiga]

Hi Cat,

Sedan

Trim: 286 - 717 (Persian Turquoise & Parchment Ivory)
Paint: 256 - 7698 (Castle Grey Lacquer Duco) Correct,  released1957
RPO: 253 - 7179 Unlisted

For your reference Turquiose is listed, but as 286 -7479.

Station Sedan

Trim: 212 (Castle Grey over Corsair Tan) - 732 (Morocco Tan & Egret Ivory)
Paint: 253 - 7689 No listing for this number


I am referring to a British Australian Lead Manufacturers (BALM) Paints Dulon Acrylic Lacquer Book which shows listings for Holdens produced between 1950 and 1962.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help. I'm sure Ken will be able to add to this.

Cheers,

Craig.

[Cat]

Thanks Craig,
I am hoping Ken may be able to shed some light on this too.  I saw the Turquoise on the list...Is it possible that "Torquoise" 286 -7479 is different to my "Turquoise Blue" 253 - 7179?
Cat

[craiga]

Cat,

From my memory of TC the Turquiose I have is similar to yours, but if it is a different number then I would say it is not exactly the same.

See what Ken says.

Cheers,

Craig.

[Cat]

OK, thanks Craig!  It is difficult to compare over the computer that's for sure.  Although my photo of TC shows it's a lot lighter, I know that may also be fading but on the interior photos it's also lighter and less green.... As you say, let's see what Ken says!  What does the 286 refer to?   It's not referred to on the website, is it the same as 253 Lacquer Duco?
Cat

[RET]

Cat,

286 is the code (presumably) for Turquoise over Castle Grey, as you originally surmised.  The numbers in front of the paint number describe the type of paint, as outlined here: http://www.fefcholden.org.au/techinfo/idplate.html#GMH_Paint_Type

BTW, the second paint number often appears next to or near the RPO label, but it isn't in fact a "Regular Production Option".  Presumably these things were whacked out by hand, and there was no real need to print the two paint numbers closer together (as they belong) if there was nothing going into the RPO spot.

Hope that helps,
RET

[mcl1959]

Cat, the important thing to know is that GMH recorded the paint colours in TWO ways on the ID plate for 2 reasons
1. Sometimes the numbers are hard to read
2. Sometimes the numbers are stamped wrong.

There are the paint codes themselves as stamped, plus the first 3 numbers of the trim code, which is the GMH secret code for the paint combination

The sedan known affectionately as TC (the car)
286 means Turquoise over Castle Grey
RET actually supplied me the numbers from TC when he first saw it and I have them recorded as 253-7479
Ones and Fours are very easy to mistake because the 4 stamp does not stamp the cross very well and the 4's look like 1's
Your car is definately Turquoise over Castle Grey

BTW dealers also used pet names for colours on invoices and the like - for instance I have seen invoices where Royal Marine is described as Marine Blue.

The wagon not so commonly known as TW (the wagon)
212 means Castle Grey over Corsair Tan
most likely the plate has been stamped wrongly - the operator was thinking about stamping 7698 when he stamped 7689 instead of 7699
Your wagon is definately Castle Grey over Corsair Tan

At a club run here in Vic once there were 2 Biscay Green over Shannon Green FE sedans parked next to each other, both were trim code 226-707, one had the Shannon green stamped as 253-7475 (correct), the other had 253-7457 (incorrect)

The cross reference code allows you to discover which number is wrong.

Hope this helps

Ken

[Cat]

Cool!  Thanks Ken....although I was hoping to have some great undiscovered colour, but at least I know the storey now.  I am, however, concerned about having an entire poo coloured wagon, I mean a flash as on Craig's Poo Mobile is one thing.....but the entire car....well, I'm not convinced!  I much prefer the salmon colour it has faded to......Cat  

[HARKO]

Nothing wrong with POO ,Its just the smell when your driving that hurt's
But seriously Cat I just puchased a FC Wagon and went through the same ordeal ,Colour will be 2T Blue resprayed

[craiga]

Cat,

Your wagon is complete Poo heaven.

Harko, see the light my son

Cheers,

Craig.

[Cat]

Mmmmm, Poo Heaven - now there's a concept!  Can you imagine......poo everywhere......poo angels......hey, do you think there is a Poo God?  Harko, I admire your ability to depart from tradition but I don't know if I can.  Looks like it's gunna be the Poo Chariot for me, but at lease I've got an alternative and can go Turquoise for a day if I'm not feeling poo oriented!
Cat-poo!

[Wayne]

You should change the colour from the poo to a nice grey not the primer it looks great in photos.

[Cat]

Wayne, there are two chances of me painting the car grey.....!!  

I just spoke to my mum who remembers the station wagon when it was new and she says it was never a poo chariot, but was always a similar salmon colour to the photo only shinier.  On the inside of the doors and areas where the sun don't shine it's not poo colour.  If it was the real Corsiar Tan would it have faded so pink?

So I not sure that Corsair Tan is the right colour.  Mum is going to try to speak to John Black one of my grandfathers mates who was a director at Holden to see what he knows about the car colour but apparently he's pretty old now so may not remember.  Has anyone got any other ideas??
Cat  

[HARKO]

'll post this one in sympathy Cat ,I think you will be shoulder deep in poo before you know it and it will be a traditional poo ,woohoo.
Hey what is it with the towbar above the number plate ,Ya think they would have made them a little stronger every one I've seen is bent ?

[Cat]

Yeah thanks for the sympathy Harko....Shucks, who needs enemies when you've got a poo chariot!?!  And as for the bumper.... well I think there's a lot more than just that that's bent (or rusty) on this car!    Cat

[mcl1959]

Cat came down my way for a visit last week and we had a look through a lot of photos of FE's and FC's painted in Corsair Tan - being able to identify which ones were original paint was helpful.
It seems to us that the Corsair Tan on FE's is a lighter colour than that on FC's even though they have the same paint code.
This is a mystery to me as I would not have thought this possible.
The FC's are all poo coloured whereas the FE's were a lighter Salmon colour.   This seems to give credence to Cat's claims that her wagon is not a similar colour to Craig's sedan.

Ken

[craiga]

Ken, Cat,

Sorry, I should have checked this earlier. :-/

If you check out the picture you will see there is definately a difference in the mix for Corsair Tan between 1956 and 1959. This explains the difference between the Poo Mobile (made November 1959) and Cat's wagon (FE 1956-58 ) , and why Cat's car looks more a Salmon colour - have a look at the amount of Red Oxide and Ferrite Yellow in the 1956 mix compared to the amount in the 1959 mix.

This should clear it up  

Cheers,

Craig

[Cat]

Thanks Craig, it's interesting that there is a difference in the vintage.  I wonder how many other colours there is a different mix for.  Is it common?  If it is, I imagine there may be a few cars that could possibly have been repainted with the wrong colour mix (that is if they are trying to be original).

Anyway, at least I'm not going potty - the "poos" are different!  Now I won't be driving a Poo Chariot after all......although I am getting worried about what sort of nick names you lot will come up with for a salmon coloured mobile .......... Be nice now!

Thanks for your help    Cat

[FCwagon]

Cat,
How does a John West mobile sound? - "only the best for J... W..."  
cheers,
Leigh

[RET]

Uhhh, "Catfish"?

In any case, cats like fish, don't they?

Anyway I'd rather have a car called "Go Cat" or "Snappy Tom" than one called "Kitty Litter"