FC WITH VL 6

[NES304]

WELL BUGGER ME
I was just thinkin about a power plant and i've caused a bloody storm. I spoke to my brother about it (he's a SAAB mechanic) and said he right off a turbo for me. But it got me thinking. i'd like a V6 not for power but for the smooth reliable quiete ride that it delivers (i wasn't chasing power) not to mention the fact its EFI. fuel is a bitch these days.

HOWEVER, the good brother he is has suggested I buy his redie off him with a reco 3 sp column box for what he bought it for so I can drive the car. finish the body properley then go on to fit a commodore diff, discs x4 rack, motor etc.

HAVING SAID THAT, the motor is reco done about 2000 clicks 186 with yella terra head lumpy cam mandrel bent extractors, 350 holley, bored out, painted up neatly red for 600 bucks (what he bought it for) and motor & box fitted for couple bottles of bourbon.
Still gotta get the old girl painted up first. Dont want any motor i choose scratchin that new white engine bay.

I dont care if its a slug or an 11sec weapon.
ALL I WANT IS SMOOTH CRUISER       GOD BLESS THE FC

[fccool59]

Sorry craig, I just felt like stirring the soup a bit.
I have read on other forums related to motor racing that the reasons people are still playing with reds are becuase they have been developing the thing for 40 years and also becuase they like the challenge of making a old basic Australian motor go 5 or 6 times harder than it should.
Anyone can get in a new ferarri and go fast on a track but you need to use your head to get around it quick with a old 6 cyl taxi motor, thats were the fun starts I guess.
Dont forget that with a efi v6 you are going over the limit of around 214 CI set by the rta meaning you need to do as much to the car for a engineers certificate as if you were putting in a v8, I would also assume there is a bit more weight here.
Also, and this is why I have used a red block, you need to run all the pollution control fitted in the mid nineties witch can be limiting when you are hotting it up and trying to stay legal, really even the pod filter you see on most v6 conversions is illegal on a late model motor and one thing even the dumbest copper will spot straight away.
Just wondering, can you really get the v6 to rev like a red 6?
and how reliable would a 300kw stock supercharged v6 be? Ive heard that a stock 3.8 v6 with even 6 psi becomes unreliable, runs hot and detonates bad
Craig Slightly worked is a loosely used term, if it means youve done a bit but you have no forged pistons, no nitrous, a factory made holden crank, a holden made cast iron head and even a holden dizzy then my motor is slightly worked.
Then again some guys wack on some extractors and a holley and they have a fully worked motor
I had a VR V6 and it pulled well but was annoying to drive at high revs, the thing felt like it was going to blow up so I never drove it anything like how I drove my FC.
Although reds are way out of production they still keep getting faster and faster, an example is guys like Joe Zullo and Norm McCormack running in the sevens with 202's trying to get under the holden 6 record of 7.7. Has a v6 ever done this?, thats gotta be getting close to making the old holden 6 one of the fastest 6's in the world.
Any way my guess is you dont really want to set land speed records, you just want something cool to cruise around in, if you can get a red motor that you know is good and already has some work done then I would get it.
it cost around $1500 to get a head done up now so if it has a good head on it already you have saved a bit..
Hey craig, how new is you subaru, compared to a FC they are now big heavy tanks at around 250 kg heavier than a FC with a turbo or supercharged red motor.
there are some pretty wild VL turbo's starting to get around that without doubt are putting out way more than the stock 150kw, one drove past work the other day fish tailing in 3rd gear.

[craiga]

Leon,

Interesting post. I am amazed and very interested about the 1/4 time of that red, is it in a rail? And can you tell us a bit about the mods it has?

Like I said before, I'll be cheering louder than anyone else when your wagon screams up the track with a blown red motor  

To do the minimal red motor RTA mods required may be a  mistake though - if you are going to get 300HP out of a red then you should still have to improve the chassis/braking/handling to cope with the extra power.

What sort of power figure are you looking for? When I used the ET calculator I used a weight of 2860 lbs (1300kgs) which I thought was about right for an FC wagon with your type of mods. I think if anything I would be slightly low?

Anyway, inputting that weight with a desired ET of 13 seconds gives 328.4HP. And that would be with ideal track and traction conditions, and you would need to add reaction time I suppose? So you possibly need 350HP to get a 13 out of your FC wagon. Does that sound right?

You can try it for yourself here http://www.web-cars.com/math/qtr_mile.html

Good luck with it, like many others I have been watching your wagon rebuild in amazement and can't wait to see it on the road again.

Cheers,

Craig.

P.S. Sorry for the thread hijack

[RET]

i dont know about you guys, but id prefere the look of a fully detailed red 6 over a plastic fantastic v6.

How many horses (or newton-metres FTM) are there in the look?  C'mon...

BTW, the link to Joe Zullo's Holden 6 is http://www.jzedholden6.com.au

The record it holds (according to the site) is 7.708 @ 168mph, at Willowbank in 2003.

cheers
RET

[4hammers]

Hi.
If you are worried about detailing, have a look at this VN V6 a mate of mine is putting in his EK Wagon. You think that looks plastic? I think it looks Cooooooooooooooooool

http://www.geocities.com/rawls57/enginebig.html

Rob J

[craiga]

Thanks RET, interesting heads and other components for your red six on that site!!!

There is hope for Darcy and Leon yet  

Here is a pic of the engine, might get a bit hot under the bonnet, and use a bit of a fuel, but hey who cares if you can get 600 HP out of it.



Using the ET calculator you could safely chuck this in your FC and get a very high 10 second pass, that's if you added a 4 link and some seriously sticky tyres to get the power down.

And a quick search shows that a mid 6 second pass has been made with a six cylinder, not a red six, but a six all the same. http://www.titanmotorsports.com/

Searching also shows that a full bodied supercharged V6 VN has travelled down the quarter in the high 11's, with a reputed 320HP at the wheels. thats about 450HP at the engine, and would push an FC to about the same time. VN's are a reasonably light car, about 1350kgs.

Cheers,

Craig.

[TorqueFC]

Craig


are you sure that calculator works correctly? i never knew a fc sedan that weighed 1050 kg's with 587 hp would pull 7.6 on the 1/4 ??



rob,
     yeh, yeh, iit looks ok i guess

[craiga]

Darcy,

1050kgs is equal to 2134 pounds, they're sort of like Kilos, but there's more of them ;-)

Here's the proper result.

Car weight:       2314 lbs.
Horsepower:       587 hp
Configuration:       Rear Wheel Drive
Results
Quarter Mile Acceleration:       9.9781 seconds.
Terminal speed:       148.1346 mph.

Cheers,

Craig.

[fccool59]

Is the efi v6 as smooth as a grey, I went drom a VR to a VK and the vk didnt have the same torque but strangely was way smoother than the VR, if you dont believe me, compare the two yourself, vr offcourse revs lower on the freeway with its 4 speed, both used the same fuel to get to work each week but the vr was heavier, also, if ya's dont think a VN is heavy, try comparing its weight to a FC.

As far as I know the car doing 7.7 has a 202 block, 202 crank, bmw conrods, ACL race series pistons and I think a further developed Duggan head wich he now sells as JZed heads.
Aparently the car is still in needs of a bit of sorting out.
Norm Mcormack was in the engine shop one of the days I went in, from memory he is down to 7.9 seconds, we saw him run at the nostalgia drags.
yes that little supercharger on Joes car should easily fit uner the bonnett with a carb like a holley 4 bbl, just need to relocate the battery.
I dont think you can use the BMW rods with the supercharger on pump fuel as they are longer and wont let you get the cr down as far.
Joe is now selling a forged piston/ conrod , maybe he will put some to use in his car.