FC WITH VL 6

[NES304]

Any one know how hard it is to move engine mounts on an HR crossmember to fit a nissan VL Commodore 6?
Any thing else I need to worry about (sump or keeping the 3 speed column)?

[TorqueFC]

if the sump is the original one, then it will need to be changed. as for 3 speed on the columb, what box
will you be running

[TorqueFC]

also moving engine mounts isnt really that bad, but you will need a dummy block to re weld them in their correct position

[NES304]

whats the dummy block for?
at present sump is original but would love to keep 3 speed column but unsure what kind of box. any ideas?

[TorqueFC]

the dummy block is for setting up the engine mounts,it is usually just a bare block wich is usually the easiest way to do things, you can use the motor you plan on using, but it would be much easier with a dummy block

[Glenn 'Stinky' Stankevicius]

Easy depends on your skills and the equipment you have. If you have a MIG welder and a good angle grinder and have used both a fair bit, then yes it is easy.

The VL motor is the Nissan RB30(?) from memory, keeping the three speed column would mean a custom bellhousing and big dollars. Places like Castlemaine Rod Shop, Dellow, Rods Racks and V6 Conversions would have kits for all of the bits you need for the RB30 conversion.

If you want to keep the three speed column, refit a grey or a red motor. Both of which mean a heap less engineering and fabrication. Fitting the grey MAY also make it easier for cheaper club/historic rego.

[mcl1959]

Spyro (spybo forum name) in SA has a VL motor in his FC and I believe still has original column shift, but I was talking to him the other night and he says it is really heavy and he is looking at changing it to a rack and pinion setup.
IMHO The VL motor swap is quite expensive and from what I've seen the later V6 is a better swap to do.

Ken

[spybo]

Agrree with Ken on this one.
My conversion runs the Jatco auto box straight out of the Comm Vl too.....planning to make a column shifter but will require some fancy wiring to get right so may leave as a floor shift t-bar but use a "period" t-bar shifter from another make???....anyone with suggestions.
Also The VL motor is heavy and will affect steering and is a deep motor so planning rack/pin is not straight forward....the V6 motor is an easier/cheaper option but may be a problem in some states due to capacity/power output of motor.

[NES304]

I found out if the v6 goes in i'll need to run 4 wheel discs. which is probably a good thing if the kids are in the back. I thought the rb30 would have been a cheaper option as it was used straight after the 202 black in commodores. I thought about the 3 speed colomn as i want to keep the bench seat and the front area clean of shifters, maybe i could slide a small t bar in

[TorqueFC]

a v6 doesnt go much harder than a slightly worked red 6, keep that in mind..... if its $$$ your worried about, id be going for a red 6!

not only that, if your going for a red 6, you can keep your column shift

[craiga]

a v6 doesnt go much harder than a slightly worked red 6, keep that in mind..... if its $$$ your worried about, id be going for a red 6!

not only that, if your going for a red 6, you can keep your column shift

Sorry Darcy, I would completely disagree with this comment. A 'slightly' worked red six, say an XU-1 style cam/carbies etc outputs about 190 - 200hp (140kW). A stock later model Holden V6 (VT) puts out about 150kw 0r 205Hp making the V6 a clear winner, especially if you take driveability into account. Add to this the reduced weight of an alloy engine, and you're way in front replacing a red six with a STOCK V6. Add a few mods and the V6 will tear away and leave the red six for DEAD.

You may or may not remember a race series called Formula Holden. Mark Skaife was very successful in this formula, as was Craig Lowndes. These modified 3.8 Litre race cars were the quickest things on the track, easily faster than a V8 Supercar.

So I say go for the V6, add a few mods, maybe a supercharger, and blow those old red sixes into the weeds  

However if you want to hear one of the best engine notes EVER*, put a really worked red six in and enjoy the music!!!

Cheers,

Craig.

* The BEST one has to be an R/T Charger. These things sounded incredible in their day. Weber's, mmmmmmmmmmm

[Motörhead]

* The BEST one has to be an R/T Charger. These things sounded incredible in their day. Weber's, mmmmmmmmmmm

The R/T's didn't just sound 'incredible' .... they howled like a Ferrari!!! The sound of the R/T E48 Charger (very rare detuned E49) one of my uncles owned up until the late 1970's was something words can't describe. Not even a GTHO Phase 3 came close, a fully worked Red motor getting close but not quite there (still miles ahead of a F%&d).

Pete

[TorqueFC]

i still believe that a red would be the better way to go!. it will be a hell of a lot cheaper to fit, you wont need to fit computer, fully new wiring harness 4 wheel discs etc etc

a red motor say with a steel crank, blue top end with some head work,  stock injection or aftermarket injection and a nice cam, would put out quite a lot of HP

if your after power, why not fit a v8? as there is the same amount of work as there is to fit a v6

anyway, just my personal opinion

[craiga]

Hey Darcy,

You're not wrong at all, but although we all love a red six they just can't hold there own anymore, especially against more modern powerplants like an alloy V6.  Personally I don't even think the Nissan 6 is a good choice, in basic turbo form these were rated at 150Kw, nothing that special when a stock V6 can make the same HP, albiet at less torque than the turboed 6 of a VL.

V8's are great if you want out and out performance, but legality is another consideration. Each to their own though, whatever floats ya boat  

Cheers,

Craig.

[fccool59]

Allright craig, when I get my FC back on the road I will meet you at the creek, bring your late model v8 efi xr8 and  and then you can stop talking shit.

[craiga]

No probs Leon, I'll leave the eight cylinder car at home and bring my late model 4 cylinder efi.

Leon, here is Darcy's original comment which is what I responded to:

a v6 doesnt go much harder than a slightly worked red 6

. So is your red motor 'slightly worked'?  From what I have read, I don't think so.  CAPA are proposing v6 supercharger kits for the VT-VZ V6's and are planning on getting 300kW's on a stock motor. If you get a reliable and driveable 300kW's out of your engine I'll be cheering louder than everyone else.

There's no need to hijack this thread with a flame out, I want to, but I won't. I must be maturing in my old age.

As I said, whatever floats ya boat.

Cheers,

Craig.

[4hammers]

Not sure what's going on here, Craig. But if you need someone to start a flame, I am your man! Just let me know.

Seriously though, guys.
Have a real hard think about it. For an era modification, or you want to build a car & for some sort of sentimental reason, you like to go the red 6, then that is cool. A red 6 with a fair bit of work, does sound great. But, the amount of V6 cars that are out there now & the Hot-Up items that are being produced, you gotta say, go the V6 route. You can buy an VR VS Commodore, with eveerything you need in the Motor / tranny / computer department (Diff as well), for under $3000!

Not only do they have more KW, but the Torque they pump out is way hot! There is an old saying:
HP sells cars, Torque wins races (Or something like that, anyway). The point was, don't just let the HP figures fool you. Look at the Nm & I can bet, the V6 will be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay ahead.
I took a brand spankers V6 Storm Crewman for a spin on the weekend & I can tell you, for a car that size, the V6 far kicked it along. I need a dual cab for work & i was very impressed, so I may get that instead of the V8 (As all the Neg press has got me wary of those V8s).

Torque, good point you made about cost, but have a think of what that beast you are getting built up is going to cost? The Red 6 is on that same road. I love the older motors, but you gotta face it, when you go to a big engineering shop & enquire about building a stock motor (Like I did) & they say I will have to source quite a few of the parts, as they are now not being produced. Hmmm, how long is there going to be bits available. Is there an easier way?

No flaming here, guys. That is my job. Go to Rants, Raves & Dummy spits & have a go at the "Hammer time" thread if you need to. I ain't choosy, I will biffo with anyone

Craig, is that a New Golf GTi you are talking about? Now that is Tough!

Rob J

[craiga]

That's it Rob. You got it. A red six is great, I didn't say it wasn't, I was just referring to the fact that a slightly modded red six will be lacking compared to a more modern V6.

If you want full on performance, a V8 is generally the answer.

An ET calculator shows that to run what is these days a reasonable 1/4 time of 13 seconds in an FC you will need at least 300 engine HP. This amount of power is more easily and reliably achieved by later model engines. It can be achieved and exceeded by a red, but at what cost to reliability and useability?

Cheers,

Craig.

(P.S: its a 2.5L WRX, not a GTi. Six months delay on a GTi was just too long to wait.)

[TorqueFC]

I still say Red 6  

i dont know about you guys, but id prefere the look of a fully detailed red 6 over a plastic fantastic v6. i know reliablity, power (haha) , bolt ons ,  blah blah blah but still......its only a v6. i have a mate who has owned his fc for 15 years, and he hs spent the entire time restoring it. in 96 there abouts, he decided to go for a vp v6. only weeks ago, he finally had it driving, and he wished he had never chosen that route, and he has continuesly druelled over our v8 fc. at the end of the day, you can have your v6 powered fc, and we will have our v8 powered fc, i know at the end of the day you would end up second best!

[4hammers]

 
Torque,
I didn't think it was V8 vs V6. I thought it was Straight 6 vs V6.
Man, now I am confused. Of course a V8 will go better than a V6. But it will go a damn sight better than a inline 6 as well.

Rob J