Wiring - Joining wires the right way.

[Ed]

Hi,

When joining wires... what is the right way?

soldering wires.. leads to cracking and failing of the joint

crimp terminals seem effective but the bulky plastic surrounds are.... bulky

can u get crimp terminals without the plastic outer sheath??  and use heat shrink instead?

Cheers

Ed

[craiga]

Ed,

Where possible I think you should look to use a proper automotive connector - vibration, dust, and moisture are all issues, so its worth building for reliability. Crimp connectors are useful, and you can get them without insulation, but if you do end up using them buy a good quality crimp tool.

Check out WES Components http://www.wescomponents.com/- they are on the Hume Highway at Ashfield - just across from the old Western Suburbs Leagues Club. They'll have everything you need, and not at the stupid prices Dick Smith and Tandy charge.

Cheers,

Craig

[Ed]

Thanks Craig,

Within easy travelling distance too.

I have come to the conclusion that i will probably join wires by the following method....

strip wires, twist, wrap with..

"Adhesive Lined Heat shrink".

This is marine grade gear which alot of 4x4's use as well, it seals out dust, salt, water and the heat shrink reduces 3:1, contains heat activated adhesive, and resists wire pull out.

bugger all soldering, no clumsy crimp butt connectors, no corrosion of joints etc...

thanks for your help.

Cheers

Ed

[JB]

Hi Ed,

The way I was shown to join wires while working as an electrician was to overlap the wires and then wind a seperate section of fresh copper around the two. Then you solder these and heat shrink or electrical tape the exposed piece for insulation when you are finished.
Something to do with conductivity...
I did this on every wire on the van and the auto elec seemed impressed.

Cheers
Jason.

[Ed]

Hey Jason,

Thanks for the tip!

I may go to Bunnings and see if I can find some thin copper wire,  I guess the copper wire wrap would stop the join from failing should the solder crack over time etc while also providing strength to the join.

It's really difficult to find info on the correct way to join wires, Alot of ppl dont recommend solder due to rigidity and cracking and ultimately joint failure.

Your method seems to over come this.

I may try a combination of your copper wire, adhesive lined heat shrink and no solder.

versus the same including solder.
and see if without solder the strength is retained.

Cheers

Ed

[JB]

Ed,

The only trouble that I had was keeping the wires in place while I soldered them and then letting them cool, but after that you couldn't pry them apart if you wanted to.

Just put my dash on the board, gimme a look at yours... Via PM would do.

[Ed]

I sent it to ur email. not sure how to put pics in PM's

Cheers

Ed

[Ed]

Another thought.....

Could easily just use terminal blocks.. dont see these round very much now besides the FE/FC etc.

Is this because looms are now  prefab and just plugged into the cars, in a variety of plug'n'play modules?

Time spent inserting wires into a terminal block for each car must be considered ineffiecient these days.

Cheers

Ed

[Sarge]

Ed
   For what its worth the Adhesive Lined Heat Shrink is great to use and bloody strong. I can stand behind this stuff as being a Marine Engineer I have used it on many occasions. Both as a temporary fix and for permanent repairs. I have only ever had to go back to temporary fixes to tidy them up when more time was available. Its not real cheap but it's quick and easy to use. Thats just my opion for what its worth.

Regards
Sarge

[Effie C]

Ed
The problem with just twisting the wires together and putting heat shrink over the 'join' is hot joints, any sort of current draw will result in heating up of the joint and possible melt down. The adhesive in the heat shrink is to seal the joint from moisture and to try and slow down verdigris (spelling) this is the green muck which occurs on some soldered joints wrapped in insulating tape.
The best way is a combination of all three, first 'marry' the two cables to be soldered ,slightly fan both ends of cables and push together so they intertwine (does this make sense) then twist the wires together. Soldering requires the wire itself to be heated and the solder to be feed into the joint by placing against the wire not by placing against the hot iron. This will result in a good joint once the solder has flowed into the whole joint, at this point it is essential the joint is not moved till it has cooled enough to set, if disturbed the solder will take on a dull grey / grainy texture not a smooth shiny finish of a good joint. Next slide the heat shrink over the joint and heat the adhesive forces the air out as the tube shrinks thus creating a moisture proof joint.

Sorry for waffling on but I help above helps, there are books available on how to solder, but the best bet is to make friends with an sparky or better still an electronics guru and get them to show you how to do it properly, once learnt you will not have a solder job cracking up and these joints will be stronger then the original wiring.

Good Luck
John M

[craiga]

Ed,

The advice these guys are giving is really great - if you have to solder I was always taught (I'm an Electronics Tech) to ensure that the mechanical joint between the two wires is strong enough to withstand your requirement, then you apply solder. Double the strength. Cover it with heatshrink and as indicated you're pretty safe.

I have rewired a few cars, especially hidden wiring in engine bays, and have always soldered and heatshrinked only when I couldn't use an original connector. When I did my FC engine bay I used many components and connectors removed from a Mazda MX5 wiring loom - cheap and easy. I also did a VB Commodore, wired through the chassis rails using the front end loom from a Subaru Liberty including the fuse and relay panel. Again the result is generally factory with only a few joins.

Cheers,

Craig.

[Ed]

HEllo All,

The advice you guys have given is great, thanks a million.

It's reassuring to hear the methods ppl have used with success.. I can now go and confidently cut up and rejoin my electricals.. Normally I wouldnt put so much thought into wiring but because of the critical nature of the  engine management system i thought it best if things wouldnt fall apart mid-journey.

I will let you know how it all goes.

thanks again

Ed

[Glenn 'Stinky' Stankevicius]

BUMP!

So how did you go with the joining in the end Ed?
I am looking to get out in the shed again soon and start the job of finishing off all the wiring.

[Ed]

Hi stinky,

how i joined wires.

99% of the time I twisted the wires together, wrapped them with thin copper wire... used NO solder as I was told this cracks with age.

then covered the join with adhesive lined shrink wrap (available from JAYCAR).

is it strong???
to test it, I joined some wires and tried as hard as i could to pull the join apart with no luck.

in some cases I had to solder then heat shrink.

I avoided using electrical tape directly on any joins, and barely any of my joins use electrical tape. (maybe 1 or 2 joins inthe car).

CRIMP TERMINALS.
First I removed the plastic insulation, crimped it nice and tight, and heat shrink over the top... looks very pro.  You could use non insulated terminals but I found these difficult to obtain.

then cable tied each of my harnesses into it's relevant bundle for easy problem tracing later (if any).

to tidy the harnesses I used cable tie saddle clamps to neatly run the harness under the dash (i got htese from the local marine electrical shop).

hope this helps.

Cheers

Ed