Confused

[Frankiej]

Just wondering if someone can help me, I am being told different story's on the v6 engine and now I don't know which way to turn, I am telling people I want to run an ecotec engine but some say yes and some say no.....go with the vr series two they tell me...grrrrr ......I'm confused so can anyone tell me for sure what is the best engine to use in my fe.
Cheers Frankie.

[fcwrangler]

Hey Frankie, I think it boils down to preference!! some prefer the early and some the ecotech. As stated by others, the steel sump is much easier to modify but I think the sumps are interchangeable so that should'nt be a problem. The other factor is what is available or what you have. I'm looking at a supercharged V6 from a VS.
I may be wrong, but isn't the VR ser.2 an ecotech.
Regards, Jim

[Frankiej]

What motor runs with the steel sump, and does the sump need to be modified on a hr frontend, questions that I don't have answers for.
Cheers Frankie

[fcwrangler]

I just did a check, the ecotech started in the VS and I'm pretty sure the steel sump is from the VN and it would need to be modified to suit the HR front end. I think one of the replies on your build page has the answer from memory it's cut through length ways and the bottom is reversed and re welded
Jim

[JB]

Hey Frankie,

I used the VT Eco Tech engine in the van because I could get the most parts from a VT to be reused again, making the build cheaper.
The earlier engines I was told at the time had issues with Cams breaking but most of these engines seem to be still going along fine, but I wanted the extra power.
In the van from the VT I used the engine and gearbox,  brake booster, wiring harness, thermo fans, cut down the radiator and made tanks to suit, instrument cluster, seat belts, part of the floor pan, shift lever, hand brake, and seats.
The sump is aluminium, so I cut it up to suit and just got it Tig welded.
The van has been on the road for over 10 years now and hasn't missed a beat from when I owned it in Cairns and now Glenn has it in NSW. It's the reason why I continued and used the VT v8 in the ute.
But if you want the short answer, it's your car, do to it what suits you best for your needs.
Happy to answer any more questions on what I did with the van or the ute.

Cheers
JB

[Frankiej]

Hey guys great stuff there and the info is priceless, I currently have a complete vs floor pan from front to back and want to know if this will still be ok to use with a vt engine, so much work went into removing the floor that I would hate not to use it.

Cheers and thanks again Frankie.

[JB]

I am not sure if anyone has used the VS floor pan. Pedro used a VL one I think and I used the VT so couldn't see why it would not work. The VT seats on the VT floor pan have 1cm either side of clearance on the FE can if that helps.

[FireKraka]

Hi FrankieJ
Mate I apologise if I was confusing you with my advise.
I have used the VP series 2 engine only because I prefer the look of the top of it (a bit more old school I think and without the plastic cover the Ecotech has) but it does only have 127kw reportedly, I find this is ample for my car and it will still turn the wheels if I stick my boot in. Parts are cheap and the engines are reliable but as I said it was my choice not to mention I purchased the donor 14 years ago.

The EK ute I am currently into is also going to get the same treatment only because my brother in law gave me a VP for nothing.

I didn't modify my crossmember or the original sump I purchased a V6 Conversions sump for my engine which is designed to fit with their rack and pinion steering I found this to be easier than having to dick around modifying.

The engine choice is really up to what you prefer I have read lately in a mag I have that the latest V6 put out more power now than the original VN 5ltr so as I say your choice. I wasn't trying to sway you one way or the other J just showing some of the mods that I had to do. I think the mods will be basically the same no matter the engine you use.

I used the VP floor hump to retain the standard shifter but I wish I had of used the whole floor I dont see why the VS one can not be used.

I am not sure of the design of the engine mounted engine mount on the VS (if that makes sense) but on the Series 2 the driver side is a steel fabricated mount and the passenger side is the airconditioning aluminium mount, I replicate the drivers side one and reverse it to make the passenger side mount I use early V8 rubber mounts that you can purchase from Supercheap and as I said on your build page I remake the HR mounts and then position the engine where it needs to be (low and back) and weld in the mounts for mine with the V6 conversion sump I think it is 40mm back from the front of the crossmember. I provided the drawings for the HR mounts to Pete and I think these are the ones he is now making.

I have rambled enough mate just wanting to show some of the mods that you may want to think about with YOUR engine choice.
Again sorry if I confused you.
Regards
Neil H

[hsv-001]

I think from memory the series 1 and 2 steel sumps need a couple of holes drilled and then they will fit the ecotec . We would turn the existing sumps around by removing the well , blanking the holes on both the sump and the well and then recutting the holes so as the sump hole is slightly smaller than the well hole so as to weld from the inside of the sump then check for leaks in the weld with a liquid [kero] and an air compressor attempting to blow air through the welds . This is for front mounted torana racks as the original well will just clear between the front end and be positioned very close to the bell housing cover .While I think of it ,the brackets on the cast iron flexplate cover will need to be removed [ I have a feeling the new holes are hard to tighten or something] and of course the dip stick hole on the well will be welded and the dipstick[with shortened tube]  will go through the plug in the side of the block . I believe that the cam breaking problem was with the series 1 as it had a shorter duration and higher lift and double valve springs ,this was remedied in the series 2 [according to the Gregory's]  Haydn 

[FireKraka]

VS has a plastic flexplate stone guard and this will also fit the series 1 and 2 as well (did this on mine)

Regards
Neil H 

[Frankiej]

Omfg so much to take in lol, Neil that's Awsome info mate and hsv01 also some great info there, but all I want is what works and what is available without to much hassle, like I said I have the vs floor but not sure what engine to use, I like the idea of a vt donor car because of what can be utilised for the build, but I also,like the look of the earlier v6 engines......so I'm guessing my floor will be ok but the choice of donor is what I need to think about now.
Pat Gardner has the parts I need regardless I am assuming, but you guys are amazing and it makes my build so much easier with the knowledge on this forum.

In the 90's I built a stretche fj holden with chev and nine  inch diff, also made my own rear mounted rack and pinion from a vb commodore, but these days there is so much more available to make life a little easier for customising anything, it's just a matter of what people want personally, and all I want is drivability and reliability if that makes sense, anyway enough of my rambling on haha.....oh and should I mention I did the bodywork on the number one in Canberra.....did I just say that ?...shit to many rums I think.

Cheers Frankie.

[fe350chev]

Hmmmm. I think you need another rum! 😄

[fe350chev]

Ok. Apart from the 1000 pages of info I sent you, others might find this helpful. Yes the vt floor is different so is some firewall and pedals and crap.  http://forums.justcommodores.com.au/holden-commodore-how-tos/59801-vt-vx-retrofit-guide-vn-vp-vr-vs.html

[JB]

When I started doing the van I tried the VS pedal box and it was too short for what I needed, where the VT pedal box fitted very nicely just needed to drill the 5 holes for the booster and it bolted straight in.
From memory to take the booster and pedals out of the VT and put them into the van was just on 3 hours.
Unfortunately when my last computer crashed I lost a fair amount of build photos for the van so don't have any to show.
There is some on the ute but with the extended dash it changes it somewhat.
Cheers

[fe350chev]

So Frankie j Holden, here is what I think. The main diff btw eco vs and vt/vx are in the intake. my fave engine out of all these is the vx but it has some extra bits that may get in the way. Vt has different bell housing I think. To be honest and cutting through the crap, if you have a vs floor, then stick with a vs eco if you can. Main issue being the looms changed. All eco proportions are the same. Don't worry about the pan, it's a non issue. The vt onwards has a different intake and egr but this is where the incompatability lies. Different intake so different sensors! Sensors talk to shit on the dash. Vt diff bell housing and trans changes, so again Speedo drive and instruments talka a slightly different language. But essentially there's no diff physically in all eco engines. Eco is much more reliable than the 3.6 alloytec. We blew up 2 've commo gearboxes. I've had 3 ve commodores, the , 2 being sv6 sportswagons and a ve now have vf. Don't go to an alloytec that started in vz. I have a pic on my build page with essentially same family engine that I pulled apart and crikey they are expensive to fix. For what you want, stick with vs eco. But if you wanted it for laying rubber, then a vn is the go. Those things go like a cut snake with a manual. Like my buggy.

[fe350chev]

Check this out. Basically I hate all cars made from early 80's to the vs lol. But that's my choice. This might Be an article that interests you both. If it were me using these eco engines or any other engine for that matter I would use the one with the most electronics in the gearbox. This goes opposed to logical thinking. So my choice would be vt onwards. That's ONLY cos u can buy a aftermarket gearbox controller and have fully auto or an easy paddle shift. I'm probably going to go the route of an old school looking throttle body modern aftermarket injection intake system that's compatible with a gm 6 spd auto so I can paddle shift it. But for you application frankie, u have your vs floor that's not compatible with the vt floor. U don't have a vt donor so cos u can get a nice running vs eco for 350 bucks second hand and there's little difference btw a vt to vy s1 eco, then it really comes down to whether you like the vs instruments better than vt plus all the seats etc are diff mountings btw vs to vt so too I assume there's other differences. Oh I think another detail is vt is bigger floor pan. So I think it's why some prefer thinner vs.

[fe350chev]

http://forums.justcommodores.com.au/vr-vs-holden-commodore-1993-1997/64700-buick-ecotec-v6-performance-upgrades.html

[FireKraka]

I can see now why you are confused FrankieJ
PM me you email address J and I will send you some photos of the engine mounts that I make for the engine as I have just made another set for the EK's engine.

Regards
Neil H

[fe350chev]

Ps. Our builds are completely different. You want turn key no bullshit hop in and drive smooth with no hassles cos uve been there done everything with hotties, I want old school look with a sbc but I don't mind going modern with what I don't see. You can get that same tuning reliability with an aftermarket sbc aftermarket tuneable intake system that looks old school but allows for paddle shift etc. But it costs $$$. But I want minimal instruments. To negate the need for instruments, I'm gunna devise just a simple hidden device that sends a warning by a simple light but perhaps some little readout things says what's wrong. That way I can keep the seats, instruments etc all stock. I don't really like introducing anything post 1970 that I can see. Has taken me years to figure this out but that's what I want. I couldn't have both so hence I got taxi to be bog stock except the bolt on intake and carbs which I will swap for club days etc if needed.

[fe350chev]

Here's what I was looking for. Basically the vs is easier for what you want. Was mainly about small refinements and emissions. Some finer points here.
http://australiancar.reviews/holden_L36.php