Electrical help needed .

[slim]

Im wondering if anyone knows an old school auto electrician who does home visits . FECOOL has a gremlin living in it at the moment which is literally driving me mad .. Was running like a dream till a few weeks back when i took it to burt brothers brakes for a brake overhaul , It needed a top / front handbrake cable , So they pulled the handbrake handle out.. In the process god knows whats gone on but when i pick it up with new brakes the guy says he couldnt get it started and that he mite of dislodged some wires.. I got it home and it died in my driveway .. It was starting . then it would just die . Just cut out , Thought it mite have a short in the ignition. Pulled the dash out for a look for any loose or disconnected wires , All seems good .. It has a Crane Fireball ignition in it, which i know nothing about .. . Now it has ignition lights but wont fire up , wont crank by the key at all, if i leave the key in the on position and put a screw driver across the starter  motor . Then it will  start up and run .. Its definately not a petrol issue , as iv changed the fuel pump, fuel lines, fuel filter,, And im goin nuts cause i cant take it for a drive without the risk of breaking down , Which is not a good thing .. any help as to an Auto Electrician who makes house calls would be appreciated, or suggestions on something im over looking , Iv been threw all the fuses 1 by 1 , Changed the little cardboard like wiring bridges on the inner gaurd , Im thinking bout putting a stock distributor and coil back in it  so i can at least check the points . lol.. PS , Its a 186 Red motor ... ANY HELP APPRECIATED .im not to flash on electrical and my auto electrician friend and mate  for the last 20 years recently passed away ,,,.                   SLIM

[slim]

 Sorry  , Forgot ,,,Im at Liverpool NSW

[Harv]

Slim,

If she won't crank, it's probably not the Fireball ignition. From what I understand, they do not switch the starting circuit... only the ignition.

Start at the starter solenoid - test light on the positive connection and have a helper turn the key. This will tell you if you have power to the solenoid. If you do, then the solenoid could well be sticky (contacts stuck open). If you don't, work backwards up to the ignition switch:
a) Test light on the SOL terminal (power out of the switch to the solenoid) with helper turning key
b) Test light on the BAT terminal (power into the switch) should be always hot.
c) Battery terminals tight (power to the switch).

Cheers,
Harv

[brett_f]

Hi Slim, If you can start it by bridging the starter motor, your points/dissy are ok. If it wont crank using the ignition switch i think they may have dislodged a wire on the switch itself. From memory all Holden starter wires are purple in color although if the wiring has been played with before this may now not be the case. My suggestion is to look at the wires on the back of the switch first. It may also be that you have a faulty switch. These are easily removed and replaced providing you have a working key so that you can unscrew the front bezel (round nut).
Brett

[hsv-001]

Auto or manual ? Isolator switch ? The purple wire still powers to the isolator .Strange that it died in your driveway, this would suggest another problem .My guess is that wires [not wire ] have been loosened and that because your ignition needs full power [unresisted]well , like others have said the problem will be obvious if you disconnect your battery and remove your ignition and check the wires . Handbrake should have been a 5 minute job . I would have spat the dummy big time . Cheers Haydn

[slim]

its an Auto , and i wont be rushing back to the brake joint . considering the handbrake hasnt worked since the day i got it home  from them doin my brakes , Thats another story .. I did pull the dash out and check the wiring but i will do it again as soon as i get a chance .. im dying to drive FECoOL , I just put a nice set of Hustler wheels on it with whitewall tyres . I think the problems in the distributor itself .. but im really not to sure , Im goin to have to get an auto electrician but i dont know a good one ... !!!! can ignition switches actually short out and become inoperable... ?? The battery is also Brand new..

[mcl1959]

Yes ignition switch can burn out if the brake guy shorted it out, it is not a rare occurrence because of the exposed terminals.
I would try another ignition since it works by shorting the starter.
The other thing the brake guy may have knocked is the isolator switch for the auto. These are usually adjustable to get the right position for neutral start, but if knocked out of position, or loosened, can provide symptoms such as you suggest.

Ken

[slim]

Just a little update on this nightmare FECOOL, Very uncool .. Iv changed the ignition, iv changed the starter motor, iv changed the electrical relays, checked the fuses ten thousand times , rewired sections of wiring I thought looked a bit dodgey, changed the headlight bridges in case they were creating a short as they become brittle, bought a brand new battery  and still it will not start at the key. When bridged at the starter it kicks straight over .. Next step im pulling the distributor and coil out and replacing with an electronic distributor out of a commodore ,,. Hope that works as then I maybe able to enjoy driving it as my everyday car . At present it in the naughty cars corner with the threat of being attacked with a hammer looming very near ..DRIVING ME MORE CRAZY . !!!!

[customFC]

If you can start it by bridging the starter, drive it to the sparky.
Regards
Alex

[hsv-001]

Have been wiring my V6 Vauxhall so have not been on the forum much of late . The only ignition set I had with a key to suit was later holden with 5 terminals on the back and I explored this with a test light and it seems that it has 2 ignition terminals . The first in the on position and the second in the solenoid position only . I assume this is for full power to the ignition on start up . The problem was that in the second position there was no power to the first ignition terminal back to the rest of the electrics and on bridging these terminals there was no off at the switch . Anyway , long story short ,I popped the back off the ignition switch and swapped it for the back of the FC holden switch and it fits the wiring I have much better . I guess what I'm saying is that you can check all of this with a light bulb and if you take the time to understand it you will go out and buy some shrink tube and a soldering iron and enjoy the sense of achievement . If you have any problems you can call me I'll try and help .Cheers Haydn

[mickrat]

When you say it won't start off the key. Does it crank over ? Work with me here will guide you. Mickrat

[Professor Grey]

Hi Slim,
If it starts when bridged at the starter motor, it can be narrowed down to 3 things.

1/ Ignition switch (which you have changed)

2/ Broken wire or connection (I'm sure you checked them)

3/ Neutral/park switch on the auto is faulty.

I hope this fixes it.

Cheers,
Prof.


Uh-Oh,
Just noticed that Ken had already suggested that, sorry!

[slim]

Its none of the above , , Is the Neutral /Park switch on the auto connected to the side of the actual shift in the car or on the gearbox underneath.. And Mick , No it doesn't crank over wen u turn the key , It has power to the ignition and dash lights are on but no Cranking. If I turn the ignition on the only way I can start it is to bridge the starter motor and it kicks straight over and runs like a champ.. . Alex , Im aware I can tow it to a sparky but last time I let someone else work on my Fe , This resulted so im not real keen on todays Mechanics working on my Ol girl , Call me fussy but I don't really know a good sparky, my long time friend who passed away handled all my electrical auto problems since I was 14.. God I miss him  (Rip Camille Nader ) 

[fastjbav6]

Hi Slim,

Ensure the hand brake is ON and in Park or Neutral with wheels chocked. Stand beside car, not in front for your safety.
Does the car have an immobiliser fitted? You may have to bypass this in case the circuit in the unit that disables the starter or ignition is faulty.
Try tapping the unit first.The internal relays often stick. If it cranks and starts this may be your problem. If not continue on.
 
Disconnect the solenoid wire at the starter motor.
Connect test probe of test light to disconnected solenoid wire and earth other end of test light.
Get a mate to sit in the car with foot on brake at all times and turn the ignition key to crank.
The test light should light up indicating power is going to solenoid.
If no power you will have to follow the solenoid wire back to the ignition switch until you get power in that circuit.

If a starter relay has been fitted you should hear it click when you attempt to crank.
If you can't hear it click give it a tap with a spanner in case the contacts inside are sticky.
You should have constant power at the wire connected to terminal 30 of the relay.
With test light at terminal 87 of the relay it should light up on crank.
Check that Terminal 86 is connected to a good earth.
Terminal 85 is connected to ignition switch via inhibitor switch. Should have power here on crank.
If that doesn't work then remove the wires going to terminal 30 and 87.
Join the two wires together.
Test light connected at disconnected solenoid wire should light up. If not reconnect relay and continue tracing the wire back.

Next step would be the Park-Neutral inhibitor switch.
Check for power going into and out of switch on crank.
If no power continue tracing circuit back to ignition switch.
With test light connected to solenoid terminal on back of ignition switch it should light up on crank.
If it doesn't the ignition switch is faulty. If it does you may have a faulty connection in the wiring circuit leading to the starter motor.

If the car starts when you bridge the starter motor then the fault is in the starter motor circuit. That means wiring and anything else connected between starter and ignition switch with the possibility of a faulty ignition switch.(Which you have replaced).

You mentioned the car would would also cut out. This indicates the ignition circuit may have a fault.
Again, does the car have an immobiliser? Check it out.

You mentioned the Brake Guys said they may have dislodged some wires. I would also look at what wires they could of dislodged whilst removing the hand brake.

Let us know how you progress.

Regards
Sebastiano
FE-FC Holden Car Club of WA (Inc)
 
 

[hsv-001]

Wire a light bulb to the purple wire at the starter solenoid and earth it and watch while someone tries to cranks it .If the bulb doesn't light then try this back at the isolator . These fail in old holdens because they are often wired with full power through them rather than tripping a relay . Haydn

[slim]

Thanks for all the help Sebastiano and Hayd, Iv got it goin to a mechanics next week after I return from the fe / fc club auction, Seems the problems in the distributor/ ignition, so im putting an electronic distributor in it. Getting rid of the crane fireball ignition. Will see how the mechanics go with it.. Iv lost patience and respect for her at the moment..

[slim]

After months of headaches a good auto electrician has solved the hidden trouble with FE COOL for me. Seems that when the brake joint disturbed my wiring doing my front handbrake cable  they have partially disconnected the wiring to the inhibitor switch on the shift, but not enough to stop it starting to get me home , creating a short. On pulling the dash out to change the ignition due to a very tight wiring loom  the switch wiring was disconnected but still looked to be connected in the loom .The sparky run an extension on the harness allowing the dash to be pulled out if need be without this happening again , and it starts and runs now first kick each time . Spent the arvo at the panel beaters , shes off to be freshened up very shortly , And I put the taxi rail in her today also, as it made my day being able to drive it and not start it by bridging the starter motor with a screw driver.. lol. Thanks to all who offered advice and help to me in my hours of madness.. !!!!!!!!! Now I have a good  spare starter motor , ignition and key , relay, headlight bridges, electronic ignition and coil and battery..