Finally a runner

[Not Happy Jan]

Better move this to cars under construction

[Trevor_B]

Rear main seal looks U/S 

Some good info regarding rear mains seals here: http://forum.fefcholden.club/index.php?topic=25680.0

It is important to use a mandrel to set the rear seal in correctly - check out the FE-FC Manual page 191 for the correct service tool 6A6

Even a new seal may leak for a little while until it beds in correctly although a good mechanic in the VIC Club reckons the success rate is often 50/50 

Trevor_B

[Errol62]

I’ve heard of using the crank with con rods disconnected and slowly torquing up main cap till seal binds. Spin by hand till free and repeat over 24 hours. Seal is soaked in engine oil prior I’m thinking.
Cheers
Clay


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[ardiesse]

Nick,

I've just finished another grey motor rebuild, and spent the usual amount of time swearing (and sweating) over the rear main bearing oil seal.

Don't worry too much that the seal bearing surface on the crankshaft has some surface rust on it.  Even minor pitting isn't a show-stopper.

To the best of my knowledge at the moment, this is how to install a rear main bearing oil seal (assumes that you're starting from a bare block, with the main bearings installed)-

Tools needed are a scalpel, or a Stanley knife or similar, with new blades, and a good-quality pair of flush-cutting side-cutters.

As a sanity check, install the rear main bearing cap (no bearing shells, no seal), and check that there is no clearance between the rear of the cap and the block.  Lay a narrow strip of alfoil on the mating faces.  If it rips off rather than pulling out when the cap bolts are tightened, then all is good.

Soak the seals to be installed in engine oil for 24 hours.

Crowd the seal in the groove in the block, pushing it down gently with your thumb.  Cut the seal off about 1 mm proud of the mating faces.  Cut the "step" into the seal with the knife, about 1 mm proud of the parting face.  Patience.  The seal leaves stringy bits.  Several attempts are needed to cut the seal material down.  Lots of little bites are better than one big one.

Crowd the seal into the groove in the rear main bearing cap, just like in the block, and cut the seal so it's about 1 mm proud of the mating faces, including the "step" in the rear main bearing cap.  Patience . . .

With the crankshaft out, put the rear main bearing cap in position and nip it down, then remove it.  Examine the mating faces of the block and cap for seal material "squished" out between the faces.  Trim these off, and re-install the rear main bearing cap.  Repeat, as often as needed, until there's no seal material caught between the mating faces.  It's OK to have little fraying bits of seal along the parting line in the crankshaft tunnel.

Install crankshaft, and torque the front three main bearing caps to specification.  Rock the crank back and forth a bit by hand to check that the seal doesn't want to spin in the groove.

Install the rear main bearing cap, and tighten the bolts down firmly.  Remove the rear main bearing cap, and check that there's no seal material caught between the mating faces.  Check also that the woven material hasn't been pushed down away from the joining line.

When you're satisfied that all looks good, wipe the oil away from the mating faces on block and bearing cap.  Apply a thin smear of Silastic to the mating face of the rear main bearing cap, from the "step" just behind the seal, continuing the full width of the rear main bearing cap.  Tighten the rear main bearing cap bolts to specification.  You should see Silastic ooze out between the cap and the block, for the full width of the cap.

Continue with the engine assembly.

When the engine's started for the first time, it's normal to see a couple of drips of thick black goop drop off the back of the sump.  This is the oil that you soaked the seal in, plus graphite from the seal.

Rob

[Not Happy Jan]

Wow thanks Rob.
Sounds very thorough and I would attempt it but at the moment the crank is insitu.
I don't think I have the knowledge to pull the crank out.It is  very interesting and I would like to learn. You need special tools to get the front of the crankcase off.
Give me a step by step on that one. 😊

[Not Happy Jan]

By the way what seal did you end up using. I see fraze used the Maxparts 6380S

[Errol62]

Nick,
Although I’ve not played with the bottom end of a grey I have done so with a later blue engine. I’m no mechanic but don’t mind having a crack at most things. I encourage you to have a go mate. It is relatively simple. You can leave the Pistons and con rods in the bores. All you really need is time and patience, shed, block and tackle or crane, engine stand, spanners and sockets, a puller for the balancer up front, workshop manual and a torque wrench. Gee, now I’ve written it down it is a bit of a list if you don’t have these things already.
It is fun and rewarding and hard to do more damage than good I reckon. You have the additional resource of all the knowledge and advice on here. What ever you do good luck.
Cheers
Clay


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[ardiesse]

Nick,

I used the standard rear main bearing seal supplied with the conversion gasket kit.  That wasn't by choice.  I measured the seal groove and the crankshaft diameter, drew a sketch, and e-mailed it to Best Gasket asking them which Graphtite seal would be suitable.  And I got no response from them. (I've noticed a few times now that companies in the US don't want to know about you if your query can't be answered by looking up a standard catalogue.  End rant.)

Here's how to pull the crankshaft out of a grey motor.  And this is also why fixing a leaking rear main bearing oil seal is such a pain in the arse . . .

- Mount the engine in a stand.  Remove the distributor, the coil, the spark plugs, the dipstick, the fuel pump, the manifolds, the generator, the fan belt, the fan and water pump pulley.

- Remove the rocker cover, the breather pipe and the sideplate. Undo the oil pipe where it goes into the hex fitting at the rockers.  Undo the bolts and nuts holding the rocker assemblies down, and remove the rocker assemblies.  At this point, make sure the pushrods stay in the motor.  Now remove the oil feed pipe.

- if you can rustle up a piece of corrugated plastic or iron with twelve channels in it , so much the better.  Remove the pushrods and lay them in order on the corrugated tray.  Remove the cam followers.  If it's a relatively new motor, they should just slide out.  If the motor's older, they'll be difficult to remove.  Don't use multi-grips, as you'll break the followers.  You'll have to tap them out from underneath . . .

- Tip the motor upside-down and pull the sump off.  (You've already done this, I see)  Undo the nuts on the oil feed pipe at the oil pump and the block.  Loosen the locknut on the oil pump set-screw, then remove the set-screw.  Remove the oil pump and oil feed pipe.

- Now you'll be able to get in and tap the cam followers up (well, down) with a drift or a screwdriver if you couldn't get them out before.  Lay the cam followers in order on the tray.

- Remove the harmonic balancer.  You'll need the right puller.  The original style is available from Rare Spares; the aftermarket balancers take the same puller as red motors.  Undo all the bolts and screws for the timing cover, and remove the timing cover.

- Things get a bit tricky at this point.  You'll need to remove the oil slinger from in front of the crankshaft gear.  If the person who built the motor was considerate, he may have filed a slot in the slinger to clear the key in the crankshaft.  Rotate the slinger to line the slot up with the key, and remove the slinger.  But more likely, you'll have to remove the key from the crank.  Get a brass drift and hit down on the rear end of the key, so that it tilts out at the front.  Then you should be able to lever the key out with a screwdriver.  If the key is stubborn, you'll have to hit it out with the hammer and drift.  Now remove the oil slinger.

- Turn the motor over until the holes in the camshaft gear line up with the thrust washer retaining screws (12 and 6 o'clock).  You'll have to tap the harmonic balancer back on to the hub of the crank to turn the motor over, then remove the balancer again.

- You'll need a 1/4" drive, 7/16" AF socket to undo the thrust washer screws, and it'll be an exact fit in the holes of the timing gear.  Remove the screws.

- Remove the camshaft.  One hand on the timing gear, the other hand to hold the rear of the camshaft, and guide it gently through the bearings to avoid damaging them.

- Now that the camshaft's out, temporarily replace the sideplate and rocker cover to keep the dirt out.

- Front engine mount plate is next.  There are two hex-head bolts (I think) and two countersunk screws to remove.  The countersunk screws will be tight (and staked in place), so you'll need a screwdriver with a 1/2" blade, or an impact driver.  Remove the front engine mount plate.

- Pulling the crankshaft out with the pistons still in the motor is a bit tricky.  Turn the motor over until numbers 3 and 4 pistons are at the bottom of their stroke.  Remove the locknuts, big-end nuts and big-end caps.  Check that the big-end caps have their numbers stamped on them.  Otherwise mark them.  Now turn the motor half a revolution until numbers 3 and 4 are at the top of their stroke.  Now remove the locknuts, big-end nuts and big-end caps from numbers 1,2,5 and 6, and store them in order.

- Undo the main bearing cap bolts, remove the main bearing caps, and store them in order.

- Take a deep breath, prepare a landing place for the crankshaft, and lift it out of the block in one movement, taking care not to ding the journals.

- You may now replace the rear main bearing oil seal.

Rob

[ardiesse]

Bugger.  I exceeded the 5000-character limit.

Part 2:

Hints for reassembly:

- Push all the pistons to the top of their stroke before re-installing the crank.  Cut off four six-inch lengths of 8 mm ID clear PVC tube and slip them over the big-end bolts of numbers 3 and 4.  Hold the crank so that numbers 3 and 4 are at the top of stroke.  Gently guide the crank into place, ensuring that the crankpins pick up numbers 3 and 4 big-ends, and that 1,2,5 and 6 are well out of the way.  Assemble numbers 3 and 4 big-end caps and nuts finger-tight; then progressively assemble the others, being careful not to ding the crank.  Then install the main bearing caps.

- Use a straightedge to align the faces of the block and number 1 main bearing cap.

- Check that the rear face of the front engine mount plate is flat before assembly (straightedge!).  If it's not flat, the engine will leak oil at the front engine mount plate.  Check also that the lube fitting for the timing gears is clear (blow through it!) and pointing the right way.

- Use button-head socket-head cap screws for the camshaft thrust washer.

- Stake the countersunk screws into place once they're tight.

- When installing the timing cover, leave all the screws loose.  Install the harmonic balancer, using the correct installing tool.  The balancer aligns the oil seal.  Now tighten the timing cover screws.

And finally: measure your main bearing clearances before replacing the rear main bearing oil seal.  If your main bearings are worn, the rear main bearing oil seal will leak.  No exceptions.

As you can tell, it's not a job for the faint-hearted.

Rob

[Not Happy Jan]

Thanks Rob
You have inspired me to give it a go.
Following your instructions and have got to the point of the removal of harmonic balancer . Bought a universal puller .



Doesn't quite fit and will buy some new longer bolts. Do I have to remove the

nut on the front of the harmonic balancer?? The crank rotates when I try to tighten up the puller

[ardiesse]

Nick,

After looking at your photos -

Yes.  I think.  If it's not part of the puller, but was on the engine, you'll have to remove the nut (looks like a bolt) at the front of the crankshaft.  I wasn't expecting that to be there.  Someone has drilled and threaded the crankshaft snout.  With a socket of the correct size, a breaker bar, and a hammer, you should be able to loosen the nut.  If the crank turns and the nut doesn't loosen, re-install the flywheel.  A big screwdriver between the ring gear teeth and the gearbox locating dowels will stop the crank from turning.

The bolts supplied with the puller will now be long enough to do the job.  Just make sure that the business end of the puller doesn't moosh the thread in the crankshaft.  Hopefully there's enough of a shoulder on the front of the crank for the puller's bolt to bear on.  Otherwise, place a thick washer of about an inch diameter between the puller and crank.  To stop the crank from turning when you're removing the harmonic balancer, stick a long screwdriver in to pick up two of the puller's bolts.  That's if you didn't install the flywheel.

Best of luck,

Rob

[Not Happy Jan]

Got the balancer off

There are 3 different sized bolts holding the timing cover?? Two are 13 mm😡
One of them protrudes through and fouls the front seal as the picture shows.??

[Not Happy Jan]

I guess the whole timing gear needs to come out yeah!
It's getting scarey. Hope i can put it back together .😊

[Not Happy Jan]

It's ok I re read your post . Take cam out!!
The contersunk  hex screws have morphed into bolts that are down pretty flush to the front plate.HTF do you get them out drill them and rethread

[Not Happy Jan]

The big end caps are on pretty tight??
Hints!
So far Rob your instructions have been faultless

[fcwrangler]

Hi Nick, I’d try cutting a slot in the bolt head with a 1mm cut off wheel and use a flat head screwdriver.
Jim

[fcwrangler]

I used a large knuckle bar and extension to clear the crank, needs a fair effort to crack the nuts though.
Jim

[Not Happy Jan]

Got it Jim
Bit of fiddling

Do they write on the cam s

haft as to what grind it is ?

[Errol62]

If the slot and I suggest hammer impact punch fails you could try an easy out. Not that I’ve had huge success with them. Otherwise drill a hole in some flat bar and mig to the bolt head. The heat will help shift it as well.


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[Not Happy Jan]

All out
No tools just a bit of wiggling and gently turn crankshaft



Still stuck on these ?? Why would you put those in?? Completely jammed 😠