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Author Topic: 138 Re Build  (Read 8529 times)
JamiePla
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« on: July 31, 2010, 08:40:24 PM »
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Hey Guys & Gals

Got my 1959 fc on the road & been driving it the last few months.
Slowly restoring it and getting it nice, It's Getting close anyways..

Last week the Cam shaft has gone in it, So have pulled the motor out & wanna do a rebuild
will all so be doing fuel lines, steering joins & few other things/

anyway, its my first car really, be my first re build too
Just wondering what Ill need to do, what ill need, any good tips and where to get this stuff from
I'm keeping it fairly original with a few extra things
But would like a tad bit more of power if possible.

I'm on the gold coast, So any Help would be great

Thanks
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EffCee
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« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2010, 01:50:58 AM »
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Got my 1959 fc on the road & been driving it the last few months.
Slowly restoring it and getting it nice, It's Getting close anyways..

Congratulations on getting your car on the road, also welcome to the forum.

Last week the Cam shaft has gone in it, So have pulled the motor out & wanna do a rebuild
will all so be doing fuel lines, steering joins & few other things/

When you say the camshaft has gone, I assume that you mean the fibre timing gear has been stripped. This is a common fault with the grey (and red) motors. Fitting an aluminium or steel timing gear usually solves the problem.

anyway, its my first car really, be my first re build too
Just wondering what Ill need to do, what ill need, any good tips and where to get this stuff from
I'm keeping it fairly original with a few extra things
But would like a tad bit more of power if possible.

Ok, as this is you first build lets keep it simple. This is what i have learnt from experience and please note that it is my opinion and that maty differ from others. Please listen to all advice offered and make your own mind up.

You have the engine out, going well so far. These old girls are not hard to work on but will require some special tools. One of the biggest mistake most first timers make is they don't know when to stop. The pull the engine out, see something else wrong, dismantle that to repair the next fault, then see another. Before long the whole car has been stripped, it is now a massive build and in most cases never sees the light of day again, only to be sold off in parts or to the scrap dealer.

The engine. Simple, straightforward without too many issues. Finding parts for them is starting to get to be a bit of an issue. As you want a bit more get up and go, and you have stated that you are going to keep it fairly original, I amassuming that you will keep the old grey motor.

To give the old Grey motor a bit of power, the original FC engine has a 3.000" bore, (132.5 Cubic inches) the later engines had a 3.062" (138 Cubic inches) Now you can either opt to have the engine bored and fit the later pistons, or you can go slightly larger and fit 3.125 pistons which will give you a little bit more. The head should be machined to have hardened valve seats fitted, as originally they were designed to run on leaded fuel. Given that leaded fuel is no longer available, the hardedned seats is really an essential item in a rebuild.

It is the head that will really determine how much more power you want to produce. You could have the combustion chambers deshrouded, larger valves fitted etc but this will cost a considerable amount of money. Given that you are keeping it fairly original, I would suggest a surface grind of the head, to clean it up, hardened valve seats and a good three angle valve job should just about see you right. Make sure that whoever does the work checks the spring pressure on the seats and fits new valve springs if the valve spring aren't up to specifications.

I would opt for one of the twin carb setups that come up from time to time. These help with the power and give the grey the ability to get a better air fuel ratio. This should improve the economy and give the car a bit more get up and go when you want it. Of course exhaust headers or extractors will also help.

In regard to the camshaft, again assuming that you are going to keep it fairly original and therefore are after something with a little more poke, a cam with a 20/60 would be the best suited or a 25/65 profile would be about the most that I would go without losing driveablilty. I would certainly fit a new aluminium or steel timing gear to the cam.

If you are going to strip and reassemble the engine, find someone that has a great deal of knowledge with these engines to assist you. You will need to know that all the clearances and tolerances are exactly right. Any mistakes will spell disaster. You will need a internal and external micrometer, Plastigauge, Piston ring compressor, Dial gauge, Torque wrench, harmonic balancer removal tool and a timing cover locating tool as a minimum.

I recommend that as this is your first build, spend the extra money and have the engine rebuilt for you. Talk to a reputable engine builder, I am sure that there are those on the forum who would be able to recommend someone in your area who is well known to club members. This way you will have a reliable engine, without the problems and you will have a warranty, that in the unlikely event that there is a problem will ensure that you are not out of pocket.

Either way you go, good luck with it.

Keith
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Old_Mt_Isa_Boy
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« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2010, 08:12:14 AM »
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Keith you did not miss a beat even though it was 1:50 in the morning. It is a bit surprising when we occasionally hear that an individual does not believe we were any help. I think your response speaks volumes for the opposite.

Regards

Wayne
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« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2010, 02:01:55 PM »
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Keith you did not miss a beat even though it was 1:50 in the morning. It is a bit surprising when we occasionally hear that an individual does not believe we were any help. I think your response speaks volumes for the opposite.


Wayne,

Thankyou for your kind words. I am of the belief if we can all help each other, then we can only promote ourselves in the best way, which is ultimately to see more FE and FC's back on the road. If I  am able to impart any knowledge that I have learnt along life's road, then I am only too happy to do so.

Keith
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JamiePla
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« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2010, 09:13:11 PM »
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thanks heaps for that, i been doing bit of reseach atm finding which way ill go and what not.
I'll keep you updated when i no what i do and hopefully everyone will see my girl back on the road in no time Smiley

Thanks again, better then i was thinking i'd get in return
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mickusmickus
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« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2010, 10:02:25 AM »
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Hi guys,

I am a Brisbane dweller and had my 132 re-built by RLC Engine Re-conditioners at Capalaba.  Unfortunatly it hasnt made it into the car yet so I can't comment too much.

I had all of the modifications Keith mentioned done to mine including the larger valves and it cost me $3000 even.  Since then I have sourced a new set of twin strombergs from Extreeme Fuel Systems ($300 or so), a twin carb manifold ($80 off ebay), Jack Myers Headers ($200 off a wreck in Woodford VERY RARE FIND AT THIS PRICE), new water pump ($150 off ebay) and will also get a new fuel pump before sliding it in.

The guys from RLC were really good, but as always the proof will be in the driving, unfortunatly I cant comment on that part just yet.
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mickusmickus
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« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2010, 10:05:39 AM »
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Sorry forgot to add, mine was rebored and 149 pistons were used.
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57effie
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« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2010, 04:43:33 PM »
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About 3.5 yrs ago I had my motor rebuilt by a bloke a mate of mine recommended. He'd done about 50 motors for my mate, never a problem. Everything on the car is original so I went to some trouble to have its motor rebuilt rather than replacing it.. It had top to bottom rebuild, new pistons, rings, bearings, reground the crank and cam. Had the head done, hardened seats, new guides, oversized valves. My motor didn't go in the car until about 2 months ago. I couldn't get it to run sweetly. It did about 1500 kms then ran the crank dry. Had a guage and oil pressure never dropped. The big end bearings melted blocking the lube holes on the big end journals. I haven't got the crank out of the block yet but it is a thro away job and I don't know how bad or where the blockage might be. Anyway about $3200 worth and the guy is no longer in business. Gone working in the mines in WA ?  Dont know if it was a dirty reassembly or cheap parts, although I did get the parts from Mick Cashell who was an older engine rebuilder in Brisbane. He still had enough bits for what I wanted to do, and sadly he is no longer with us.
I'm a little dissapointed and not sure what to do now. Maybe a V8.(tried to put some cheesy grins here. how do you do that)
 I am looking at a motor that is supposed to be a runner which I hope will get me back on the road for the moment.
RLC Engines at Capalaba. Is that Redlands Engine reconditioning ? I new the bloke that owned it but he did sell the business and retired.
Anyway, be carefull who does your rebuild and where the parts are sourced from.
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colt
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« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2010, 06:36:36 PM »
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One thing I have been told a few times:

If you have an engine rebuilt, never let it sit around. Don't assemble your engine until you intend to use it. The weight of everything makes the bearings go out of round over a period of time. When you start it, disaster.

If you do rebuild an engine and it sits around for a while, every now and again, build up oil pressure with a drill or whatever and turn the engine a few times by hand.

I'm sure others will have other opinions, but I have been told this by several different people over the years.

Colin.
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colt
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« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2010, 08:51:16 PM »
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Never thought about it but makes sense.
I used to pump oil in from the head with syringe i've got and turn it over regularly but then I used to park it at top dead centre. Same spot every time.
I'm hoping I can salvage the block.
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oldjohnno
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« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2010, 08:31:55 AM »
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One thing I have been told a few times:

If you have an engine rebuilt, never let it sit around. Don't assemble your engine until you intend to use it. The weight of everything makes the bearings go out of round over a period of time. When you start it, disaster.

If you do rebuild an engine and it sits around for a while, every now and again, build up oil pressure with a drill or whatever and turn the engine a few times by hand.

I'm sure others will have other opinions, but I have been told this by several different people over the years.

Colin.

That's a myth. The crush on the ends of the shells ensures that they stay round, and lots of complete engines have been stored for many many years and started without problems.
There are a few things you can do to help preserve a stored engine (besides the obvious ones like storing it somewhere very dry).
There are special anti-corrosive storage oils that can be used, alternatively most of the multi-purpose agricultural oils have similar properties to help protect machinery that is parked up for a long time. I like to remove or at least loosen the rocker gear so all the valves are closed (and the cylinders sealed) and the springs relaxed though it's probably not really necessary. Keeps the wasps out though.. Tape up the intake and exhaust too. If you are going to turn it over periodically I'd stop at a different spot each time so you don't always have the same spring fully compressed but again it doesn't seem to matter.
Before startup I like to remove the plugs and overfill it with oil. The very high oil level lets the crank splash oil onto the bores while it's cranking over. Once you have oil pressure and flow to the top end you can drain the excess, fit the plugs and rocker gear and fire it up without problem. I've done this with several engines that have been idle for many years without dramas.
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« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2010, 10:17:50 AM »
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Hi Jamiepla,

I am going through the process now of giving the old gal a bit of zip.
I got two new strombergs and a cain twin manifold about a year ago on ebay,
my timing gears are a bit worn and i thought while we have it all out might as well go for a mild cam to get the benefit from the twins.
and some extractors to go on also.sort of going for the 60's hot up.

getting a quote next week for the fit , give you a ball park figure if you like.....always cheaper if you can source the parts yourself.
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