springs and shocks

[Gary C]

Hi, replacing front and rear shocks and springs, everything standard including brakes, diff and fresh modified grey. I do want to lower a tad and nice 14x7inch rims. Has anyboby got any suggestions on coils and shocks. Rear leafs are being reset. Also is there a kit for all rubber front and back suspension or is there a improved replacement for all? You know how it goes,started out fresh motor,ending up full resto.Thanks
Gary

[FB_MAD]

I can help with some of your questions but the 14x7 rims question I'll have to leave for others that may be running that combo as I'm at present running standard rims but I'd guess 14x7 might be OK on the rear?? but may have some guard/wishbone/tie rod rub issues?? depending on rim offset I guess??.

Anyway, I have an FB sedan, standard except 149 red, and which apart from looks/ body panels/interior etc  is near enough otherwise to an FE/FC underneath so would be pretty much the same on lowering/shocks/springs etc.

I fitted 2 inch lowering blocks to the rear springs and heavy duty 2 inch lowered front coil springs ( with an extra coil cut )to the front ( kingpin front end ) which drops it about 3 inch at the front.

I modified the front bump rubbers ( shortened ) and reshaped them back into a cone shape to gain some progressive absorbtion on bump.I still have approx 1 inch of travel ( maybe slightly more ) on the front before it bottoms out and along with Peddars heavy duty shocks I am very happy with how it rides.It only bottoms out on the largest potholes which it would anyway with standard springs/shocks.

I did have the move the upper outer wishbone eccentric bolt to its maximum to obtain camber and caster to a point where the tyres don't scrub.Toe-in I adjusted to 1/4 inch and I have done over 5000 miles with no tyre scrub or rim/tyre fouling on guard/suspension at all ( remembering I'm using standard rims, not wide ones )

Rear bump rubbers were also shortened and reshaped to gain progressive bump and I still have approx 3 inch travel before bottoming on the bump rubbers and Monroe air shocks were fitted as I tow a trailer at times with some heavy loads.I run approx 20 psi in the air shocks when not towing and 100 psi when towing with a load.Very happy with how the rear rides as well as the overall look of the car ride height.

You may not be wanting to lower your car to the extent I did but at least this gives you a guideline with my experience.

Hope this lenghty bit of info on what I've done helps you in making your shock/spring/rim  selection.

[FB_MAD]

Oh, forgot about the question about suspension rubbers.

The front kingpin suspension doesn't use any rubbers as its all greasable pivot bolts and kingpins.The crossmember to body mounts are rubber cushioned and there is aslo a polyurethane mount kit available as well.There are advantages and disadvantages to using rubber or polyurethane depending on who you talk to.

Rubber gives a less noisy feeling as the rubber absorbs some vibration but some say that the rubber can give a bit too much crossmember movement on hard cornering ??

Poly mounts don't have as much cushioning and can make the crossmember more rigid but can be a bit more noisy/vibration but it's really not that bad ( I've used both rubber and poly mounts).

Rear springs can again be rubber or poly mounted and  can in theory give the same outcomes as mentioned above. I actually prefer poly shackle "rubbers" as opposed to the original rubber ones as they don't have as much "give" in them and can help keep the rear suspension assembly more rigid which can help especially when conering.


My thoughts from experience, others may differ in opinions on what I've said, but here's something to start things off for you.


Hope this helps.

[FC427]

I'm not a lover of air shocks I have repaired quiet a few cars over the years where the shock mounts or the floor around the shock mount has given way or cracked  because of fatigue when heavy loads have been carried and shocks have been highly inflated to carry that load ....also I found that if the lines to inflate the shocks do not have a separate line to pump each up individually when cornering the loaded side of the vehicle air is compressed and transfered to the other side air shock with out load and can increase body roll ........simple fix with individual air lines . just my observation  any one else notice this  ..........FC427.......

[FB_MAD]

  Yep, there are disadvantages to using air shocks as well.

I've had quite a few cars with them and towed a lot of things and never had a problem mainly I think because I am always making sure the drawbar on the trailer has the least amount of weight as possible on it ( for example putting a car on a car trailer backwards with the engine of the car over,or past, the rearmost axle ) and I never pump up the air shocks past 100 PSI ( mine will go to 150 PSI).

I have welded up quite a few top shock mounts over the years when I was a mechanic from cars that have had air shocks  so yes, cracking and/or punching the top of the shock through the top mount can be a problem but I believe that a commonsense approach to weight distribution to minimise the air shock load and a mid range pressure setting would stop a lot of top mount failures due to air shocks.

You are right FC 427 in that separate air lines are best because in a single line system , air pressure equalisation will cause the compressed shock to actually expand the other shock and contribute further to body roll or make the car's rear handling erratic if a bump is encountered on one wheel.

[Gary C]

Thanks for the info, Pedders do supply a coil spring that they state lowers the car 3 inches from standard,I thought that might be too low, maybe if I go back to 13x6inch rims? Also probablly go for the 2inch lowering blocks and thinking along the lines of all rubber. Sorry FB mad, the front rubbers I mentioned are the grease seals and the crossmember mounting rubbers, Because Iam replacing all seals and mounts including firewall grommets I was hoping to just go through one supplier and get it over and done with in one hit, any suggestions would be much appreciated, thanks again.
Gary

[mcl1959]

My opinion is that 3 inch drop is too low for a standard front end. Not enough suspension travel. 3 inch drop is only suitable if you want your car to look as low as possible regardless of ride harshness. I would go two inch maximum. I'm not saying that 3 inch drop can't be driven - it can, but a 2 inch drop doesn't have much compromise on ride.
Rubber bushes will be fine for a standard front end with grey motor.  Once again if you are looking for minimum body roll under severe cornering, then go for the urethane bushes, otherwise rubber will be fine.
Don't use air shocks - a good heavy duty double acting oil shock will be fine.


ps - don't put cars on car trailers with the engine to the back - inexperience doing this can be very dangerous.

Ken

[Gary C]

Thanks Ken, I would have thought standard fc suspension travel would not be much more than 5inch maximun(only guessiing) so if you lower your car 3 inches with same rebound you only have 2 inches travel?  Is that why you think 3 inches is too muchI f this is correct to restrict "bottoming out" a stiffer spring is required. Then hence stiffer ride. What I want to achieve is low , soft ride  and handle. If there is such a kit available I'm keen.
Gary

[RET]

ps - don't put cars on car trailers with the engine to the back - inexperience doing this can be very dangerous.

Yes, it was a long time ago, but I still vividly recall seeing the wrecking of two Ford Landau coupes because the one on a trailer had been reversed on, and the trailer got the wanders. Both cars were write-offs.

[FB_MAD]

  Guess i must have been lucky then, or had a lucky trailer, have never had a problem towing cars on trailers facing rearwards  .

[stapla]

I too witnessed a mates mint LH torana towing a trailer with too much weight at the rear of the trailer.  Going down a hill the trailer decided to overtake the car and throw it around wildly. 

[mcl1959]

Yes personal experience when I was much younger towing an FE with my FC. The trailer started swaying going down hill. I knew what I had to do which was accelerate - luckily the bottom of the hill was not far away and going up the hill steadied the whole load.
After a change of underwear and the learning of a very valuable lesson, I continued home VERY slowly.


The fully unloaded suspension travel is only about 4 1/2 inches - sitting on the ground the travel is just under 4 inches. 3 inch drop leaves you less than an inch travel, then you start cutting the bump rubbers to get more travel as FBMAD says.

Ken

[pedro]

ps - don't put cars on car trailers with the engine to the back

It's the kind of mistake you only make once, i learned my lesson early when my father asked me to take his 1924 Studebaker to a car show in Brissy, nearly wiped out the Studebaker and his brand new Statesman getting a huge speed wobble on the freeway at 100 k's an hour, turned it around on the trailer and never had the problem again, also never told my dad .
                                     Pedro

[TTV6FC]

FB Mad,you mentioned that you lowered a king pin front end about 3 inches and that you had to adjust the eccentric to it's maximum.Did you in fact manage to get correct alignment or was there something else needed.I want to lower my king pin front about 2 inches and am concerned that there will not be enough adjustment.Has anyone else done this with kingpin fronts?

[weddo]

Hi TTV6FC,

My "HIS FC" is lowered 2 inches all round with standard king pin front end. No Bull heavy duty shocks all round, rear springs re-set and No Bull heavy duty front springs (2 inch lowered) standard wheel alignment and no other unusual adjustment and no problems.

regards
Weddo

[FB_MAD]

FB Mad,you mentioned that you lowered a king pin front end about 3 inches and that you had to adjust the eccentric to it's maximum.Did you in fact manage to get correct alignment or was there something else needed.I want to lower my king pin front about 2 inches and am concerned that there will not be enough adjustment.Has anyone else done this with kingpin fronts?

  Yep, I adjusted the eccentric upper outer pivot to it's maximum and adjusted castor in the same action as well.Then did toe in at 1/4 inch with a tape measure.The camber/castor was done by eye and then toe in.It was only supposed to be good enough to be able to drive it to get an alignment done but the car steered perfectly with no pull to any side so I didn't worry about an alignment and just decided to see how the tyres scrubbed.Over 5000 miles now and no tyre scrub issues at all.

I must have guesstimated the wheel alignment right when I did it by eye.

You should have enough adjustment on the eccentric pivot bolt if you are lowering by two inches, I just made it by dropping the 3 inches.

[FC427]

When I lowered my EH 3" cutting the springs [when I was a lad over 30 years ago ] I took it for wheel alignment and they guy could not get it right he said he had to cold bend the stubs axles I remember him wrapping chains around the front end and using the porta power to bend it a few years later when I was defected and I put it back to standard height I discovered that he actually had bent the wishbones to get the wheel alignment .........FC427.........