red motor conversion:engineer

[waynos]

just wondering what are the smaller things an engineer may pick,do i have to plate seat belts,previous owner just bolted through floor,no interior lights,my horn is on a button under dash,allmy heater squirters etc under dash,is this legal?just bodgeying it up to get it to him,but thinking it might be better to fix everything properly,is it better to leave a couple small things wrong so he may overlook bad work(welding etc)done previously?told him i'm a boilermaker,scared i'm gonna have to fix previous owners shoddy work,or am i worried about nothing?

[ratbox]

what state? my car recently passed engineers for a V8 conversion in NSW with no problems with horn button, squirter button and fan switch on dash
if the welds are a bit scarey that could be a problem

[waynos]

im in nsw.do you think the under the dash horn is legal?expecting him to say its gotta be more accessible

[ACE]

Hey Waynos,
You've answered your own question. Fix everything properly
Regards ACE 

[mcl1959]

Engineers are primarily concerned with safety and whilst a lot of people think that they are just picky - they are only enforcing standard requirements. Backing plates for seat belts are one of the favourite things for an engineer - the actual requirements are as follows;
Minimum of 50 mm x 75 mm x 3 mm
Radius on all 4 corners of 5mm
Radius on all edges that are in contact with the floor of 2 mm
Nut must be secured to the plate
Plate must be sealed to the floor with a suitable sealant
Minimum of 7/16 UNF thread

Now before everyone starts screaming "my engineer didn't make me do this or that" or "I didn't have to do that"   Let me repeat what is a common statement. EVERY ENGINEER IS DIFFERENT.  Yes I'm shouting.

These are the RTA guidelines and an engineer follows them at his own discretion.

Why not just take your car to the engineer and let him tell you what he wants - if he wants you to fix some welds up or move the horn button - then OK do it - Ultimately he is only concerned about your safety and other people you may kill or injure by having a defective vehicle.
My personal experience is that if a car is presented in a very haphazard way with defects everywhere, then the engineer will be a lot more thorough, as he will presume that all work has been carried out to the poor standard presented. But a car presented with the very best attempts to have everything right will have far less trouble. 
I have prepared dozens of cars for engineers reports and on the whole, engineers are not stupid, sure they may make an occasional mistake either for you or against you but everyone makes mistakes now and then. You can debate the report (not argue the point) with the engineer if you can present a logical case where a precedant has been set recently.
It is certainly not like a RWC test where sometimes you might leave a few things for him to see and then he will let you off other things.

Ken

[NO NAME]

when i got one he was mainly interested in the floor around the tunnel wich needs to be reinforced if the rail going across underneath is cut, he didnt look much at the brakes but he picked something wrong with some bolts, eg wrong tensile, no spring washer/nyloc on parts holding the booster and hanbrake equaliser, he also wanted to see that the shifter hole was strong and sealed with a inner rubber boot.
 before seeing him i rang up and asked what i needed, that was when i found out about the tunnel wich was a set back becuase i didnt have it rite before, he also told me about the seeatbelt mounts, it was funny becuase he was giving me all these measurements like of a fc pillar and stuff and i thought how does he know so much but when i got there i noticed a red v8 FC parked next to the office that had been there for ten years.

 when i was there i went and got the required nuts & bolts on foot from a close by fastener supplier, we fitted them up there then he went to check the wiper speeds and on the high speed with a sigma wiper motor the wiper arm flew of so he told me to disconnect the high speed on the wipers and passed it.
at the time i had a horn button on the dash and one under the carpet, window washer button also was under the dash.
 a typical red motor conversion is easy to get passed and the list of modifications usually only takes one page.
from memory i had to stop and get a weighbridge ticket on the way.

[waynos]

thanks again guys,was gonna get everything right anyway but now got more of an idea what to expect
regards wayne

[NO NAME]

i know heaps of people dont want to hear this but before i got mine passed i didnt even understand the engineer thing, i drove the car for 9 months with the rail cut just relying on a tunnel made mainly of two layers of metal, my seatbelts just had washers under them as the previous owner fitted them, i drove the car hard, i was 20, i even raced it at the drags, nothing happened, nothing broke and i lived, then a couple of years after getting it passed it crashed with 4 passengers and after making those bits for the seatbelts no one even had there seatbelt on, what a waste, we hit another car and spun it rite around making it close to a rite off, no one in my car moved but the dog landed on the front floor.
 the front of my car looked pretty bad but was cheap to fix but the subframe was pretty much needing replacemnt.
 My uncle registered his van prior to the engineer reports, he has cleaned up two kangaroos at high speed, it probably would pass anyway but its not certified. it also had a baby seat in the back, not certfied but did its job perfect for everyone but the poor kangaroo's
 i know its good to build your car strong solid & safe but i think some people over react when they see something they think is not safe like "the minute you drive out the driveway you are going to die"
 yet the same people might look at a motorbike and say nice bike forgetting what a deathtrap a bike is in traffic or on a windy road.
 the other one i hear is "if you take that on the road you will kill innocent people" but how often does that happen, drunks are known to beet people to death so never drink more than one beer a day just becuase you think you know how to handle your alcahol.
 anyway i think also when you are doing any work on a car you need to keep in mind that you are going to be sitting in it while it pushes itself along upto over 110kph so you dont really want 30 yo wheel bearings, rubbers and rusted out or weekened sills or pillars, also with no collapsible colum it is good to have the seatbelt mounted good and adjusted properly.
 the engineers report is needed becuase people like me when i was 19-20 might not know what is required and just whack in the motor and hr brakes with bits cut here and there and be off and most pink slip stations would not have picked what i missed.
 

[waynos]

hey ken you said suitable sealant,you mean liquid nails or something.wouldn"t i be better off welding the plates to the floor?if so could the plate be smaller than those dimensions?also does the pillar need strengthening to accept bolt,dont wanna rip my good headlining trying to plate there.at the moment it just bolts through.i must also add that these laws are a good thing as this car was very bodgeyed up andwas a death trap.i have wanted to fix everything properly not for laws sake but the safety of me and my passengers.

[NO NAME]

Ken would no better in his position but when you have two bits of metal together you need to seal around the edge or the metal will rust away inbetween were you cant see, all you need is a tube of drip check, i think they are about $12 at a paint supplier, maybe even a autoparts shop might sell it but i dont know make sure everything is clean before you seal it, you will find not many engineers ask for it but its cheap and easy, you just apply a bead around the edge and wipe it with your finger.
 if you put your front seat belt through the pillar you just need a washer that is as wide as the outer part of the pillar but i cant remember the minimum thikness, i think you will find it on the for the rego department in your state, on the other side i think its a wave washer and a spacer, the recess on the spacer sits in the hole on the seatbelt then the seat belt bolt goes into it.
 ive never seen the sealer on a pillar bolt but if you have some just put a bit on the back of the washer before you put it on.

[ratbox]

FCCOOL what you say about all the so called safety gear is dead on, i think when yor number's up yor number's up, it can and does help don't get me wrong but i've seen so many smashes and smashed cars where you can't understand how some one died or lived, a couple of months back my neighbours son who drove like an old lady hit a tree at 90-100kph in a mid '90's falcon, steering colum (collapsable) smacked him under the chin killed him instantly

[mcl1959]

Yep I agree with a lot that FC COOL has to say, and I think he has learned a lot over the years. Luckily his smash was an offset impact and a lot of energy was dissipated by the car spinning round, or the story may have been different.
The aim of the engineers test is not how often something catastrophic may happen, if it possibly can happen under some circumstance, then it should be avoided where possible.

As a parent of driving age, teenage children I am probably more aware of potential dangers than most on this forum - so if I appear like a stick in the mud or old fashioned or "not with it", I don't apologise.

Anyway the sealant is just silicone and is to stop rust as suggested. You can weld the plate to the floor but this doesn't stop water getting in between the plate and the floor. The best way is to drill a couple of holes in the floor and do 2 plug welds so that the plate is held in place, then apply the sealant to seal the gap between the plate and the floor.

Ken

[waynos]

i get so worried about this engineer thing cause my silly honda mechanic mate keeps telling me i'm gonna have a list as long as my arm of things to fix.i think i've been going overboard because this lawnmower mechanics been in my ear.i am the fussiest bugger when it comes to the ute cause my old man is bodgey and i listened to him on previous builds(hd&a ht) when i was younger,so i'm all about good workmanship these days,so i have no qualms about making it right .thanks all for giving me faith,especially ken as always.i think i have been worrying too much.
cheers wayne

[Ed]

Waynos,

If you're going to modify it's a good idea to get your hands on the the Code of Practive for Light Vehicle Modifications (google it).

Base all your mods on meeting this guide in NSW.

Presentation helps in getting it passed, so does open communication with your engineer.

also steer clear from an engineer who does not share your objectives.  When i was shopping around for an engineer I found a guy who was local, but he did not like V8s in old holdens, end of story.  He told me Old holdens were tin foil and mraginal at best with a grey... he went on further about torsional rigidity testing, his lack of faith in 3/4 chassis and how 253's were the biggest V8 he would pass.  Further to that he reckoned the HR was the strongest Holden ever built... the guy was obviously on drugs and new nothing about Holdens.

At the summernats I saw Mark Dellacqua's blown 351 in the red RS2000 Ford Escort and it was registered as an ICV, pity he wasn't around as I'd love to pick his brain about putting a 308 in a Holden Gemini and registering it for street use.

Cheers

Ed

[ratbox]

waynos sounds like you summed up half yor probs in the first line "honda mechanic" get in contact with an engineer, the RTA or on the street machine mag web site has a list of NSW engineers, ring a few sus them out here's a tip only tell them what they ask don't go volunteering info just tell them the mods and ask what they want done, ask there prices as these can vary alot aswell, pick one take the car to them they should only check that things are done to a decent standard and only check the upgrades, blue slips are where you may get a list but you'll then know exactly what to fix, it's all not as hard as it may seem once you just go and do it


ed, dellacqua's car has been rego'ed aloong time way before the rules changed

[Ed]

Ratbox,

yeah i knew the green one was about a long time but never saw the red one before.

isnt there a guy on the FB forum with a blown 350 in an EK running single circuit brakes???

[waynos]

know what you mean about dont tell him too much,went to see a guy with my oldman (told him not to speak),next minute he knows everything.thanks dad

[ratbox]

ed, i'm pretty sure the red one has been around quite a while aswell just not with the blower, he has had a red one for along time aswell as the green one, i wouldn't believe alot he says i doubt the blowers are legal on either car as he never drives them on the street they are trailered everywhere they  go and when they get to where they are going they never go on the road, we go to a show in kandos he stays in a motel maybe 500 meters from the venue and doesn't drive to and from the motel to the venue and back i wonder why?