Wheel Cylinders - To sleeve or not to sleeve

[Jolls]

Hi Team,

After a bit of advice. I have the original wheel cyclinders for the ute. I am working on trying to get the cups and piston out of th front ones at the moment. The will definitely need work and I have read several posts recommending having them sleeved in stainless. I am looking into this and it appear to be around $130 a corner plus postage plus a rubber kit.

I can purchase new wheel cylinders from Rares for $70 for the fronts and $90 for the rears.

So what is the benefit of the stainless sleeves in practical terms over new cylinders and why is it worth spending the extra $; ie, what is the cost benefit argument that has me spedning the extra coin up front?

Thanks in advance for sharing your wisdom.

Cheers n Beers
Craig

[Errol62]

When I did it it was $80 per corner so price was comparable. I was suspicious of the quality of the new parts and sleeping offered a long life solution. In retrospect the process was somewhat fraught, taking several attempts to get right. At the time I put that down to the particular supplier but subsequently learned that the process is rather tricky.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Jolls]

When I did it it was $80 per corner so price was comparable. I was suspicious of the quality of the new parts and sleeping offered a long life solution. In retrospect the process was somewhat fraught, taking several attempts to get right. At the time I put that down to the particular supplier but subsequently learned that the process is rather tricky.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

So I take it from your reply, even though the stainless sleeve will not corrode as much over its lifetime, that you don't see a significant long term benefit of one over the other; providing the new ones are maintained.

Regards
Craig

[Errol62]

Can’t comment on the new wheel cylinders really Craig. Others will probably say they have found them to be ok.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Fraze]

I have had lots of trouble with resleeved brake cylinders, mostly leakage between the cyl body and sleeve. I will only use new theses days. Fraze

[Jolls]

I have had lots of trouble with resleeved brake cylinders, mostly leakage between the cyl body and sleeve. I will only use new theses days. Fraze

Thanks Fraze,
Great to hear, I'll shell out for some new ones so at least I am starting with a known quality.

Cheers
Craig

[Harv]

A lesson I learned from Ardiesse - if it’s not a daily, then sleeve it. The cast iron ones, even new, don’t like sitting around, and form a light rust ring at the cup. They then leak - repairable by hone, but annoying.

I did the brakes in Grace’s ute, and took in all four to be sleeved. 6 months later they were leaking again. Pulled them, and found no sleeves. Brake shop apologised - they figured giving me new cylinders would be easier than sleeving. They then sleeved the new ones they had supplied - no more leaks.

Cheers,
Harv

[Dr_Terry]

I'm with Harv. Stainless steel sleeves for me.

The Chinese & Indian made new cylinders are quite often very poor quality. If the car sits around they corrode very quickly.

All my oldies have re-sleeved cylinders throughout & I have no dramas at all.

I have heard of re-sleeved cylinders leaking, but that would down to the skill of the tradesman doing the machining. I've never had one leak myself.

Dr Terry

[old-blu]

 I have restored 7 FE/FC vehicles over a 30 yr period. All have s/steel inserts in the wheel cylinders. Never had a problem. I guess it comes down to workmanship. Kevin.

[Errol62]

I certainly will not use South Glenelg Brake Service again after my experience. As I bled up the resleeved cylinders, the front two were good, but when I started on the rear ones, the first one was leaking, so I took it back. It took them at least two attempts to fix the leak. Then the last one had to go back as well. They used some sort of glue to set the sleeves in place, which I believe is the standard method. I had previously supposed they would be a friction fit, but in any case they were leaking through the hole in the sleeves required to allow pressure and bleed input, out either end between the main body and sleeve. I should have gone straight to Power Brakes SA but they are way across town from me. Since then I went to HR brakes with new wheel cylinders, and haven’t had any problem. I do try and drive my cars weekly though.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Harv]

Jill’s is in the Premier State… would recommend Burt Brothers in Fairfield for the resleeving.

Cheers,
Harv

[my8thholden]

Gents ..Brake cylinder problems no surprise...one point I would like to suggest ..I was told by a very highly regarded development engineer when restoring my FC ...Vern when you do your brakes ,as your car will probably stand for extended periods, use synthetic brake fluid ..he said , all brake fluids attract moisture , BUT !!! with synthetic it wont mix into the fluid , so less chance of rust based problems .., he made the comment , no good in very low temperatures where the water can freeze in the system ..that doesn't apply in Australia ..I use Penrite , 10 TENTHS 600 hundred racing full synthetic brake fluid .

[Jolls]

Gents,

Thanks so much for the input. I also had a chat with Rob on the dog and bone yesterday and he also mention Burt Brothers as the place to go. I'll give them a yell tomorrow and see what the go is. The ute will be used a fair bit once she is registered as part of one of our businesses, but onnce I retire I will put the old girl on historic or concessional registration so I will look into having them resleeved and also look at the synnthetic brake fluid. Really appreciate the guidance.

I checked the front drum collection today; two measure up at 9" and one about 9 1/16" with some deep scoring. So that one end up a paperweight I expect. Haven't had a chance to pull the rears apart yet - I have a funeral to attend tomorrow so I trust I will get it done on Tuesday.

[texmorton]

This is all great discussion and timely for me about to put fluid into a restored brake system with repro wheel cylinders. If i use synthetic fluid like the Penrite product mentioned will that degrade standard rubber cups in master and wheel cylinders? Al

[Harv]

Silicon-based brake fluid (Dot5) should be ok on the rubbers, but only change to it if the entire brake system is dry and clean. It dies not mix with the glycol based fluids (Dot3, Dot4, Dot5.1).


Cheers,
Harv

[Jolls]

Had a chat with Burt Brothers and was also put onto Canberra Brake and Clutch in Fyshwick. Both offer the same services including the production of oversize brake shoes if required. Neither do the sleeving on site. The only difference in the advice I received was the more colourful descriptions from Canberra Brake and Clutch.

The advice I received is summarised below:

• the after market option work; however, they are of varying quality and if not driven regularly suffer from early failure due to the porous material used in their construction (described as ranging from poor quality to shit
• both recommend resleeving all components in the brake and clutch system
• neither see a need to use silicone based fluids. The main reason for using it in our vehicles is the benefit of not corroding paintwork. On the negative side the same issues were raised by both: it is more compressible than glycol so provides a softer pedal; it is more difficult to bleed and it can result in water being trapped in low spots. Canberra Brake and Clutch also report that it tends to leak past the rubber seals. It is also not compatable with ABS systems (not that ABS is an issue for us to consider)
  
• DOT3/4 or DOT 5.1 will do a great job in stopping any classic vehicle as it is unlikely that brake fade due to heat is a significant issue.
• Like anything, there are trade offs and limitations, but all of the available brake fluids are suitable for use(noting Harvs advice about mixing DOT 5 and any of the glycol based fluids).

The manual states that the max oversize on the drums is .030". Burt Brothers advised that they rebond shoes; whereas, Canberra Brake and Clutch do not provide that service. They prefer to have oversized shoes made to suit the drums. I'm not sure exactly what that entails or the cost so I need to investigate more there. Either way the drums need machining so I will bundle them all up and see where it leads.

I will probably run them into Fyshwick to have them done for ease of drop off and pickup and to try and support locals. I'll come back to this once the quality of their work is known.

Thanks for all of the advice - it has really helped shape my discussions with the brake guys.

Cheers   

[my8thholden]

Harv is correct..dont mix different brake fluids ..If you change from Glycol to Silicone or vice versa its a full system flush  ..As stated I believe best life of NON stainless sleeved original cylinders in good condition synthetic is way to go ..

[Errol62]

Flush and re-rubber through out.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Jolls]

I'm starting from new so no problem with whatever fluid I start with - just need to be on it going forward.

Cheers
Craig