FE radiator cowling/shroud

[JohnBM]

engine running hot - all avenues exhausted. Last resort a cowling/shroud has been suggested. Has anyone any information as to where I may get one to suit an original grey engine radiator

[mcl1959]

John, Have you been reading the revised head gasket thread?
I suspect your engine is similar to others, and that the shroud will not improve things because the problem is not likely to be the cooling efficiency of the radiator.
An engine in one of my earlier cars had the following done during and after rebuilding
Chemically cleaned block and head and full engine recondition.
All NOS valves in NOS guides
New old stock NASCO core installed to factory tanks with new hoses.
Original water pump with NOS kit installed including impeller
NOS carburettor
Overhauled distributor with timing checked dozens of times including valve timing.
NOS Thermostat used in and out of the motor

Engine still ran hot

My solution was to sell it, I wish I had tried the head gasket idea though.

Ken

[JohnBM]

Ken, I have got a copy of the Black Art of cooling grey motors, and read through it, and I can relate to most of it. I have now installed a digital water temperature gauge as the ambient temperature of around 25-30 degrees gets the red light on. The company that rebuilt the engine back in 2011 suggests that with the 7lb radiator cap that I have on, even at 95c it will still not boil until it reaches 120c. I understand that the engine rebuild required a re-bore that reduced the wall thickness which in turn could increases the heat. We have completed two cross country trips to the Nationals and have had temperature problems on both.
Thanks for getting back with your advice.

JohnBM

[fastjbav6]

Hi John,
Is your radiator cap matched up to your temperature sender unit in the cylinder head?
There is a brown and black coloured sender unit for grey motors and they need to be matched up to the correct size radiator cap.

Regards Seb.

[mcl1959]

Along the lines of the testing that Rob did. If the head on your motor has the two outlets, you could move the sensor to the front and see if there is any difference. Or even install two sender units and see when they come on.

On your original question. I don't know of anything that is available to suit a grey radiator, I would go hunt through the wreckers to find something that may be suitable, and modify from there.

Ken

[Harv]

Hi John,
Is your radiator cap matched up to your temperature sender unit in the cylinder head?
There is a brown and black coloured sender unit for grey motors and they need to be matched up to the correct size radiator cap.

Regards Seb.

G'day Seb,

I hadn't realised this one. Interesting.

FX-FE Holdens had a 4 psi radiator cap, whilst the later model FE Holdens (after block number L388858) and all subsequent grey motors had a 7 psi cap (red motors run a 13 psi cap).

The 4psi grey motors use temperature sender 7406994. The caps lift when the water gets to 107ºC. The idiot light comes on at 103ºC.
The 7psi greys (and early reds) use temperature sender 7406993, with the cap lifting at 111ºC. The idiot light comes on at 108ºC.

These numbers are approximate... for example the sender units are +/- 5ºC in operation.

The risk here is that if you have a 4psi cap, and use the 7psi sender unit then the car will boil at 107ºC before the idiot light comes on at 108ºC. If you had a 7psi cap and accidently ran the 4psi sender, the idiot light would come on a little early, but still safe.

Interestingly, Tridon only offer a single grey motor sensor in their catalogue (TTS033) that comes on at 125ºC. That's a bit funky... the idiot light would come on well after the cap lifted.

Have you got the manufacturer and part numbers for the "brown and black" senders please?

Cheers,
Harv (deputy apprentice GMH reverse engineer)

[FE_UTE]

G'day Harv

Black sender is EJ on  part No. 7418881

 The brown sender...No. 741533 ..The original part no for the late FJ eng no. 173093 FE FC EK  was 7407528 and was superseded by 7419533

So the early Fe had the same sender as the later one.? 

 I have NOS 7419533(Brown) and 7418881(Black) but dont have a box with 7407528 
 

[FE_UTE]

John how hot does it get 
at cruising and at idle...I know that you dont get to a great speed so the engine should not get too hot ?

I have been across the paddock 3 times in my ute without a temp gauge
I have a modern 3core radiator core with original tanks and haven't put water in on either trip
One of the trips that I did without company I sat on 68 - 70 mph for the whole trip
The other I came back with Jim and again did not put water in

Cheers gary

[ardiesse]

John,

My two cents' worth:

To troubleshoot your cooling system, remove the thermostat and your original temperature sender for the time being, and install the digital gauge's sender in place of the original.  In the cylinder head, not the thermostat housing.  If your cooling system's in good order, the gauge should read ambient + 40 degrees C in ordinary suburban driving.  Ambient + 50 is bad, ambient + 60 means you have serious problems.

Remove your water pump, take the backing plate off, and measure the clearance between the pump body and the impeller with a feeler gauge.  Specified clearance is in the range 0.008" - 0.015".  If you've got more than say 0.030" clearance, replace the water pump, or press the impeller down further on the shaft.

If you really want to splash out, buy another digital temperature gauge and install the sender in the thermostat housing (I think you should have a 3/8" BSP plug in the thermostat housing).  Compare the readings from the two temperature gauges.  If the coolant temperature inside the cylinder head is 10 or more degrees C higher than that inside the thermostat housing, you are suffering from the "coolant short-circuit" problem, and you will need a modified head gasket.  Or the Teflon cure with a standard head gasket.

Rob

[Harv]

G'day Harv

Black sender is EJ on  part No. 7418881

 The brown sender...No. 741533 ..The original part no for the late FJ eng no. 173093 FE FC EK  was 7407528 and was superseded by 7419533

So the early Fe had the same sender as the later one.? 

 I have NOS 7419533(Brown) and 7418881(Black) but dont have a box with 7407528 
 

Thanks Gary - appreciated.

I think you might be mistaking the oil pressure switches though, as the numbers above are for oil pressure, not water temp sender. 7519533 is the oil sender for late FJ eng no. 173093 FE FC EK, whilst 7418881 is EJ onwards.

The water temp senders (and radiator caps) only changed midway through the FE run (at engine L388858). No change ion the FJ run that I know of.

I suspect that either Seb is thinking of the oil pressure senders too, or that the water temp senders also came in a black and brown version (probably with part numbers 7406994 and 7406993).

Anyone know if there is a decent aftermarket equivalent to the two water temp senders, given the Tridon catalogue one appears very incorrect?

Cheers,
Harv

[FE_UTE]

Sorry Harv ....my bad....

[JohnBM]

Thanks to all who have responded to my heating problem. You probably have guessed I'm not too mechanically minded but I do persevere. I do have the digital gauge in the head, replacing the sender switch. This was a replacement for the original one that came with the engine. The light came on even with the original one. I've had the car 40 years. I also have a mechanical temp. gauge which is reading temp in the top tank. Both readings were approx the same. Hand feel and digital thermometer readings reveal no appreciable difference in radiator temp. H have the radiator out at the moment getting seen to so I'll check the water pump impeller clearance as suggested by Rob.
I'm reluctant to go the way of head gasket change as the rebuild cost the earth.

John

[JohnBM]

Regarding the Black Art of Cooling grey motors posted by Harv: I'm ok for 2 modified head gaskets if the numbers make it viable - better to have them if it becomes the last option. Other members of FEFC WA Club who run grey motors don't seem to have the problem.

Regards
John

[JohnBM]

Re my recent query on my overheating problems. As I mentioned I tried just about all avenues to solve the problem, even other forum members input. All I can say is don't always believe your mechanic. As in my case my original grey motor was completely stripped and rebuilt in 2012. Since then I have done two trips over the Nullarbor with the engine overheating on both occasions, the mechanic being advised both times, as well as on other occasions. They informed me that it was no real problem, that it will run hot but still be OK.
When I put my query on the forum recently I was at wits end, as the 4 year warranty was just about to expire. The engine will run OK in cooler spring/winter temperatures. They suggested a radiator shroud which I looked into, but have since rejected.
Would you believe a very cluey member of our FEFC Club, invited me around to his place where he checked the TIMING, and in his words "this engine is bloody retarded to buggery!" He fixed the problem in about 5 minutes flat and the car has more get up and go and runs about 8-10 degrees cooler, even at an above 30 degree ambient temperature day.
Maybe - just maybe, the Canberra Nationals will be little bit less stressful!!

JohnBM   

[ardiesse]

John,

Well done.  Always check the simple things first.
With the timing advanced back to where it should be, you'll probably notice that the car starts more easily and goes better too . . .

Rob

[mcl1959]

That's a very good outcome John.
Well done

Ken

[FE_UTE]

Great to hear John...Time to find a new mechanic

[NES304]

I hope you told the mechanic this. I bought a VR V8 statesman off an old man for $1000 and he said it's buggered. Ran like crap. Mechanic changed plugs leads O2 sensor etc etc.

I bought it whacked a fuel pump in and went like a shower of shit. Took it to the same mechanic (unbeknownst to me) within 2 weeks of purchase for a roady and I laughed at him after he told me how long he spent and $ trying to figure it out. I have zero mechanic experience.


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