Grey block identification

[fcwrangler]

The engine I have for the FC needs to be rebuilt, but it has a police number stamped on it so I'm not sure of it's origins. Is there a way I can find out by the casting id's on the block?
Thanks in advance,
Jim

[ardiesse]

Jim,

You need to find the date code on the engine block.  It's located on the RHS of the block, in front of and slightly below the machined pad for the engine number.  Usually the block will have "HOLDEN" cast into the side, and a 740xxx part number.  The date code will be there.  The format is  letter (number) number number.  The letter indicates month, as follows -

A:  Jan
B:  Feb
C:  Mar
D:  Apr
E:  May
F:  Jun
G:  Jul
H:  Aug
J:  Sep
K:  Oct
L: Nov
M: Dec

The first two numbers (or just one) are the day of the month.
The last number is the last digit of the year.

So, for example, a block with D240 cast on the side will have been cast on April 24th, 1950 or 1960.

There are other give-aways about the age of cylinder blocks.  Early blocks (FX-FJ) tend to have the circular GMH logo cast into the RHS, small welch plugs (just over 1" dia), and no ribbing on the left hand side of the crankcase down towards the sump.  The right hand side sump rail just below the distributor will also be machined to take the clutch countershaft.  FE-FC blocks have more ribbing on the LHS of the crankcase, but still have the small welch plugs.  From FB onwards the welch plugs were enlarged to about 1-3/8" dia.

I'm happy to take a drive down to sunny Bargo and cast an eye over the motor (even start it) if you'd like.

Rob

[fcwrangler]

Hey Rob, got a chance to look at the block today, it has D215 cast on the side, so going by your list it is a 21st April 1955. This would make it an FJ engine, given that the car was an ex taxi, it would be quite possible that it was changed over at some stage.
I also measured the bores with an interesting outcome,
1---3.093
2---3.086
3---3.094
4---3.096
5---3.086
6---3.093
Given that the early blocks had a 3inch bore, it would appear that the engine has been bored +10thou? I was told by the lady I bought the car from, that it was a reconditioned engine 2-3 years before I purchased it.
Jim
Jim

[mcl1959]

Jim, the police number has a code as well. The first two numbers are the year it was stamped, so your number should start with 55 or maybe 56

Ken

[ardiesse]

Jim,

Your bore sizes suggest that the engine's been rebored (at least) twice.  3.093" = 3-1/16" + 0.030".  So The first rebore would have been to 3-1/16", and the second one +0.030" on top of that.

You'd need a set of 3-1/8" pistons now.

Rob

P.S. Is there any ribbing on the crankcase where the generator would mount?

[fcwrangler]

Ken, the engine number starts with 66, so it would appear it was renumbered some time in 1966.
Rob, it does have ribs above the generator mounts, also it has a clock style casting below the distibutor mount with a flathead screw slot pointing to 11&5. It also has holden and 6 on the same side and would appear to have large welch plugs. The other thing I forgot to mention yesterday is the piston don't have anything stamped on the face ie std 010,020 etc.
Jim

[mcl1959]

Hmmm, I don't really know when the last grey motors were made. Is it possible maybe that they were still being made in 1965?

The date of your block might be 1965 not 1955 and installed in 1966.

This would explain large welsh plugs and bigger Pistons
Based on your description of the block it doesn't seem that it is a 1955 manufacture.

Ken

[fcwrangler]

Could it be an industrial motor from a fork lift? Maybe the last production run with the red motors?
Jim

[ardiesse]

Jim,

Interesting.  It's definitely a late block.  About the only thing I can think of is that the final digit on the date code might be a 3 instead of a 5 (an easy mistake if the lettering is indistinct).  Which would make it one of the last EJ blocks.

But then I remember an ad on Youtube, which starts with a very earnest-looking mechanic standing in front of an FE, holding a bottle of oil, and asking, "Is your Holden like this one? Using more oil? . . . Here's your answer."  The ad was for grey short motors, apparently from 1964.  This was probably how GMH got rid of the last grey motors after ceasing production some time in 1963.  Your motor may be one of them.  I would have expected that at the foundry, grey motor production would have stopped, and red motor production started, with no overlap.

Another question: what size threads are the holes on the front engine plate where the engine mount bolts on - 5/16 UNF or 3/8 UNF?  The bigger size is what the EJs took.

Rob

[weddo]

Jim, the casting number will indicate when the block was cast, the engine number, being a police issued number will only indicate when the engine/block was first used. I have a police issued number indicating 1964 for a block that was cast must many years before and still standard bore. This is a preference when looking for a block for a rebuild that would hypothetically have less rust or corrosion.

Regards

Weddo

[fcwrangler]

Hey Weddo, long time no hear, I am tossing up whether too rebuild this motor or not, hence the post. The motor has been sitting around for around 7 years under plastic and a tarp, but the weather has still managed to get to it. While I'm not overly concerned about the police number, I've been offered both a B & J bottom end for rebuilding for the sedan as it actually had a J block in it when I purchased it 18-19 years ago.
Jim

[weddo]

Hi Jim it is a long time! and I don't get on the forum all that often while we are travelling the big island.
In my opinion any of the blocks you have or are able to get will all need stripping, cleaning, testing and measuring. The closest to standard bore the better, but as Ken has eluded to, a complete flush to enable an examination of the water jackets will also be a deciding factor.


cheers
Weddo

[weddo]

Pistons, ring and pin sets are still available

http://stores.ebay.com.au/early-holdens/_i.html?_nkw=6KRY2663

regards

Weddo