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Author Topic: LPG  (Read 5065 times)
PeteR
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LPG
« on: October 02, 2002, 05:11:10 AM »
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Hi,
Has anyone got their FE/FC running on LPG?
I use mine as my everyday car/business vehicle and do about 1000/1200 miles a month. She doesn't hold much fuel and is a little thirsty so I'm considering changing to straight LPG (not "duel fuel"). I know I'll have to do the valveseats/valves but aside from this has anyone experienced any dramas?
The old girl pings a fair bit up the mountains on the way home - I know LPG helps in this regard.
I had a Toyota van for 10 years that ran on LPG and it was really good (slow up hills tho' Wink )

As a newbie I apologise if this has been gone over before -

Thanks for any info...
Pete Smiley
Oh yeah, the engine is a 186!
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RET
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« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2002, 09:14:33 PM »
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PeteR,

Don't apologise - I can't recall the question being asked before.  I don't know of anyone in our club who has had a red on LPG.  One of our members has a 4.4 Leyland V8 powered FE on gas, been like that for years, but I doubt his opinion will be much help to you :-/

Hopefully someone else here has some experience with this.

cheers
RET
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« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2002, 10:41:01 PM »
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PeteR.
My bro is straight gassing his EH next week, if you email me, Im sure he wont mind telling u some bits and pieces.


alternatively I may just ask him to leave a post here for all to learn.

Ed
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Peeitz
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« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2002, 01:31:32 AM »
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Hi FE/FC clubbies Smiley

Im about to convert my EH to straight gas (yeah yeah this is an FE/FC club.....) as i suffer the usual problems of a thirsty red...even more so, after adding bigger cam, carby extractors etc.  After talking to the guys at gasresearch they think i should pick up some HP but i'll  keep you posted.

Installation date is set for tommorrow... i'll soon know if it was money well spent...

take a look at http://www.gasresearch.com.au for background info and tech specs

cheers

Pete
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PeteR
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« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2002, 06:25:44 AM »
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Thanks fellas.
Pete, I'll be really interested in what you think of the EH after gassing.
Like I said, I had a Toymotor Townace on gas (duel fuel) for 10 years, the tune was a compromise...LPG wanting more advance, ULP wanting less.
The engine oil looked like honey after 5000k's, it never 'pinged' on LPG but rattled like a lagerphone on petrol, however when climbing big hills it would pull 3rd on petrol but LPG would see me looking for 2nd.
In theory an engine built for LPG only should put out more grunt than it's petrol equivalent - LPG having a higher theoretical Octane rating (so I've been told Wink )....my only experience in this regard is tuning petrol engines for Methanol (but you've gotta use nearly twice as much Metho for around a 15% increase in geegee's)
Plus, I think it'd be pretty easy to a good sized tank(s) in the old girl to increase her range.
Hmmm - I can only think of pro's...no con's. I wait with much anticipation!

Pete(R) Smiley
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PeteR
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« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2002, 06:36:47 AM »
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I've just checked out the 'gasresearch' site...Thanks!!!

Pete  Cheesy:D:D:D
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brads59
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« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2002, 04:49:56 AM »
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Hi Pete,
            There is no reason at all why LPG should slow you down,if your set up properly with straight gas.
I think LPG runs at about 110 octane as opposed to petrol at about 90, so in theory you can make it go hard if set up right. Goodluck with it mate and let us now how it goes.  cheers........BRAD....
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« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2002, 02:29:30 PM »
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Pete,
     I know these are the WRONG models , but I  contacted 2 guys today about LPG .

  1/   Local Gas conversion guy said "dedicated gas only is the way to go" ,   He has an XF Falcon ute, been on gas for 10 years and he wouldn't change it.

  2/   Brother-in-law in Canberra ran an XF facon Taxi , on "Gas Only"   for 13 years .   First motor lasted 750,000 K's  , second motor was up to 620,000 k's when he sold the cab and was still running great (Cab was on the road 24 hrs a day)

     Both said "too much trouble with duel fuel"

  Comparing distances travelled , I don't think you would have much trouble.

      Cheers
      Norm d

PS    Gas guy's brother has 202 on gas, going to see him tomorrow for more info.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2002, 02:32:58 PM by normd » Logged

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peeitz
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« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2002, 09:59:40 PM »
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Hi folks...

Got the EH back after being converted to straight gas and i have to say it feels "different".....

The engine is a 179 with stage 3 head, 30/70 cam, blue motor ignition (graphed to suit) with extractors and was fed by a 320 Holley.

The most noticable thing about the initial drive was the fantastic induction noise  Grin  and the smoothness of the engine, both idling and accelerating, although the power curve has changed...but probably due to the ignition being regraphed for gas (not to mention the cam) or possibly the jet size or metering sleeve being used is  smaller flowing than the Holley.  Although i dont think i have lost power, its more getting used to a different induction setup.


As for consumption/mileage......time will tell....

Feel free to email me at peeitz@yahoo.com


Cheers

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normd
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« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2002, 11:38:48 AM »
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PeteR
        Spoke to Jamie today (202 on gas) He bought a secondhand kit "duel fuel" but tunes it for GAS ONLY , says he has a 1/2 tank of petrol "just in case" he gets caught, but uses gas at all times.
       He recommends you do the head only if the motor has a lot of miles on it , his had done only 15,000 k's since full rebuild so he left everything as it was .  motor has now done 127,000 k's and hasn't had any problems, runs really smooth and plenty of power but he noticed the oil was heaps cleaner when he changes it because the gas burns better

  Hope this may help
   
     Norm d
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RET
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« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2002, 11:36:59 PM »
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I thought you needed hardened valve seats to run gas, just as you do to run ULP.  Or plenty of spare heads....
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mcl1959
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« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2002, 07:50:59 AM »
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RET, youre supposed to get hardened valve seats but dont have to.
I'm running a VH blue motor almost exclusively on gas (only use petrol when the gas runs out).
I never did anything to the head when I put the gas on at about 155K.
It has now done 245K and still running strong although idle is a bit rough now that valves are receeding a bit.

Thats nearly 100K on straight gas with an old motor !!

Ken
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fcfromscratch
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« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2002, 11:52:32 AM »
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Hi Guys,

Very interesting reading.  I'll offer my two bits worth on LPG (having never owned a vehicle that ran LPG!!).

As a fuel, LPG is supremely clean.  Despite being stored as a liquid, at manifold pressures it only exists as a gas and therefore doesn't have the problems of petrol carburettion.  The molecules are much smaller and burn far more completely, less carbon laid down, more efficient combustion etc etc.  I am always amazed when I visit Melb (presumably Syd too!?) and jump in a cab that has 600 or 700 thousand kilometres on the clock, frequently on the original engine.

The downfall of LPG is that it is less dense....Propane has a density of 0.52 Kg/litre and Butane a density of 0.56 - 0.58.  Autogas is principally propane, same as bottled LPG for BBQ's etc.  Automix is making its way into the marketplace and can be a mix of (say) 70% Propane and 30% Butane...a little "heavier".  But petrol is typically about 0.735 - 0.750 Kg/litre density, a lot more chemical energy is stored in those hydrogen-carbon bonds to be released during combustion.  

Fuel density has a good correlation with power.  As I have mentioned in another posting, octane does not necessarily mean power, unless the engine is designed to produce that power from the higher octane fuel.  But the difference in density between LPG and petrol should be obvious in any engine.  The advice to tune the engine to LPG (to my mind) is good advice if you are looking to  get similar performance...you have to burn more LPG to release the same power output....but it is certainly more efficient (and cleaner) in its combustion and usually cheaper to buy too (though in WA it can get up to around 55c/litre!!)...so overall economic benefit is from the combination of all these things....

Brad
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zulu
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« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2002, 12:11:54 PM »
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Hi Peter, I recently saw a forklift with a holden grey motor converted on gas, hows that!
regards Gary
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normd
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« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2002, 10:27:45 AM »
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Brad,
      Just read your other post as well as this one , FANTASTIC ,damn it's a GREAT forum this one , I bet theres not another site on the net that can be so informative to it's members .
       Brad , you are joining the likes if RET , KEN , CRAIG and ALL other guru's  Grin

Norm d
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« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2002, 06:56:37 AM »
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Norm,

thanks for that....I hardly qualify for GURU status though...as my login says....NEWBIE!!

I agree with you, though, about this being a GREAT forum....I've looked at a few over the last 3 - 4 years and there are not any that can hold a candle to this one...

The only other one that I found nearly as helpful was fastlane.....but sometimes it was too FAST....yesterday's posts were lost so far down the list you couldn't find them!!

regards....Brad
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