Water in the Sump

[Philby]

Hi All,

I recently replaced the head gasket of my Grey motor.  The head was skimmed and a standard gasket kit installed.

During the repair we inspected the head and there were no visible signs of a cracked head.

My problem now is I’m still getting water in the sump.  At first I thought it was just clearing out any remaining water, but I drained the oil, filled the cooling system and left it overnight, then when I removed the sump plug, out came about a cup of water.  I have run it and there are no visible bubbles in the radiator which leaves me at a loss.

Is it possible I put the head gasket on incorrectly?  I.e., tightened, loosened then tightened again or off centre by a mil or two?

Or should I start looking at more serious problems?  If so what would they be?

Cheers,

Phil

[Dr_Terry]

Hi Phil.

Could be any number of things including a cracked head.

One common, often overlooked problem on Grey motors is the welsh plugs that are behind the sideplate. When these leak, the coolant goes straight into the sump. Worth the price of a gasket set to have a look.

Dr Terry.

[Rod]

Hi Phil,
Did you get the head crack tested when getting the head shaved? If not there still may have been a crack present as I found out recently. I had my head done up and I could see no cracks but on testing, one was found.
Did you check the welsh plugs (smaller ones) when you had the side cover removed? If these are faulty these would cause water to be found in the oil.
Did the coolant level in the radiator drop overnight which would indicate a leakage? If it hadn't maybe the water was present from previous problem.
Have you retorqued the head. As I found out many years ago, its important to drain the level of coolant in the system below the level of the head gasket prior to backing off and retorquing. I didn't do these and had to replace the head gasket again.
Finally the last resort maybe a crack in the block. A few years ago I found an external crack in my block which was leaking coolant. There is no reason why an internal crack couldn't develop.

Hope this may give you some options.

Rod

[nicko]

Hi Phil.
before you panic and imagine the worst,take the KISS rule(keep it simple stupid)and do as Terry says and remove the sideplate to check those welsh plugs,
cheers Nick

[graham_fuller]

Hi Phil,
I had exactly the same problem with mine about 25 years ago and it was the welsh plugs as DR Terry says.
Cheers,
Graham

[Philby]

Thanks Gents,

I like the sound of the problem being the Welsh Plugs (time and $$ are scarce).

Are there any tell-tail signs be that the plugs are leaking?

I had a quick look and feel (of the welsh plugs ) when I was doing the head, but nothing stood out to be wrong with them.  Will there be visible evidence of water leaking or anything?  

How do you get them out?

Thanks again,

Phil

[Rod]

Hi again Phil,

You should see evidence of water / coolant leaking from the welsh plugs and if severe you should be able to see  a corroded hole in the plug. Look for a rusty appearance.

To get them out its quite straight forward. With a punch, hammer punch plug on one side of the plug only into towards the water gacket. As you are doing this the plug rotates. Then using multigrips etc... you can then pull the plug out.

Make sure you do both plugs replacing them with brass ones so the problem doesn't occur again. On second thoughts check if plugs are brass in the first place. They may have already been replaced some time in the past. If they are its most likely this isn't the cause of your problem.

Keep us posted.


Rod

[fe hotrod]

 ;)Phil,i had the same problem with the hot grey in my FE,water in the sump,pulled the side cover off and there was the problem a small pin hole in one of the two small welsh plugs!!easy fix only costing about $15,if that is not your problem id pull each spark plug out and check for any discoloration on each plug,as that might tell you if you have a problem with your head, and just start from there......... ;)cheers jamie

[collecta]

One thing over looked here is the simple use of a cooling system pressure test, im sure someone here could lend you the tool or do it for you . pressurise the system and check all suggested areas under pressure and you will soon find the culprit. good luck!!


cheers
Scott

[Philby]

Great advice guys.

Would this be the evidence I was looking for?




I was happy to see this as soon as the side-plate came off.  

A couple of new brass plugs and new gaskets and I may be on the road again  .

Dr Terry - Your diagnosis and prescription was spot on - Cheers.  Also, it's not often a doctor doesn't try to drain your wallet through incorrect diagnosis,  your a good one Terry!!


Rod - I didn't have any tests done on the head when it was skimmed but I did re-torqued the head. I'll make sure I get brass plugs and hope there are no cracks in the head or block .


Nick - The KISS rule is a good rule.

Graham - It must be somewhat nice to see the same problems still happening as 25 years ago.  A good simple problem with a good simple (KISS) answer.  I take pride in experiencing problems that have been around for ages and having the wisdom of people like yourself to assist.  A knowledge/skill transfer that doesn't happen enough these days.  

Jalmie - I know how you felt when you saw your dud plug.  Somewhat relieved it wasn't anything worse.  When you say discolouration on the plugs, what colour(s) would indicate trouble?

Scott - Nice one mate.  I'll look into getting a test if the new plugs don’t stop.  There is nothing to say it's only the plugs supplying the water!

Thanks again everyone.  I hope the plugs are the only source of leakage.

Cheers,

Phil

[Philby]

Hey Guys,

I have given the plugs a wack with a punch and hammer, but I'm not sure if I'm doing the right thing.

Where do I place the end of the punch?  On the inside of the welsh plug to one side, or between the welsh plug and the block?

I've given it a hit on the inside of the plug but I'm not sure if this would be pushig it too far into the block and it doesn't seem to be turning.

Cheers,

Phil

[HARKO]

Hi Philby the welsch plugs have a slight taper which is smaller at the flat surface ,Hit one side of the face and it will spin like a coin .
or just punch a hole in em and pull em out with some sort of hook

[Philby]

Hey All,

Just thought I'd let you know I'm back on the road.  

Two new welsh plugs and she's running like a dream.

Thanks again for the help.

Phil

[ridgey_didge]

Great news Phil.  Let's hope for a long smooth run from her.
Cheers
David