Fibre teeth

[HARKO]

I've stripped the timing gear on the old grey the other  night on the drive home from work..
Does anyone know if alloy timing gear's are made for grey's
Also a gasket kit for Feul pump, Rocker cover, Side plate, Dizzy if it has one and Timing case,,Who make them ?
I have stripped the cam and gear's out of the spare donk and the cam is a little worn but I'm not that keen to try and press off an old brittle gear and press it back onto the good cam so a new one could be fantastic..
A rough idea on price's if any one know's anything would be great
Harko...

[air-chief]

G'day Harko

I've heard of alloy gears doing the same thing.
When I rebuilt my grey I used a steel gear made by someone in S.A.(price was about $55) I'm not really sure of the place, I was put onto them by a club I was a member of. The only problem with the steel one is it makes alot of noise.

Maybe someone hear has the number for the steel gears

Cheers a-c

[Effie C]

Hello
I purchased a steel gear and all the gasket from American Auto Parts in Sydney,they are rare spares agents. I purchased them on the web and delivery took two days.
All parts work fine
John .M

[FCwagon]

I also ran a steel gear when I had a warmish grey in the wagon. It was purchased from Motor Improvements (in Melbourne) for $45 'bout 5 years ago. Ran as quite as

[ChrisB]

Hi Guys,

I fitted a matched set of steel gears which I got from "Chips" Fearon in the Melbourne club. The guys down south apparently have done alot of work in getting these gears to this evolution as I am told. A good coating of Molybond along with a reground cam and I have found the gears are suprisingly quite. Maybe Ken can put you in touch with him. The cost when I got them was $80.00

Regards ChrisB  

[mcl1959]

I'm pretty sure that Chip's club (Holdens of Age) had a run of these gears made and they are now all sold.

Sorry - Ken

[HARKO]

Thank's guy's
I had a go on the old shop press and the gear came off surprisingly easy so I pressed it on no drama's at all
The whole job went like clock work exept waiting on gasket's from Repco {3 days later than expected}
I also adjusted the valves and now she purrs like a little baby kitten ...

[Harrko]

Learning a valuable lesson gives me the bloody shits..
Using a used timing gear out of an engine that has little background can upper cut you good and proper
Today I drove to Sydney from wollongong to check out another FC Wagon , I had the usual speel no rust low mileage pristine (yeah right) so I was dissapointed one more time ,I decided to head out to western Sydney to see a mate ,Whilst on the drive home from there directly above the Napean river I heard the almost familiar sound of fibre teeth stripping and the donk dieing
Those old fibre teeth carried me about 300 klm's and now I'll proceed to wait for gaskets and a new gear just to sit down try to smile and do it all over again (but this time with a stopwatch)
What's worse is the old man's Ford is what towed me ..

[mcl1959]

Harko - I couldn't agree with you more - timing gears are a very fragile animal.  Pressing off an old gear and then putting it on again is very risky.
Once I got away with taking the whole cam out of one engine and put it in my engine (I checked that the bearing sizes were both the same)
I got away with this for about 500 k's and then sold the car.
This was about 20 years ago when money was tight.
I wouldn't do it now.

Ken

[EJ_Dave]

This discussion about fibre timing gears is making me a little nervous about jumping in the EJ and driving long distances without a second thought as I have in the past.  

What are the factors that make these gears more likely to fail. I imagine that lumpy cams, double valve springs and high revs are asking for trouble but do they often cause problems in standard motors that aren't driven too hard?

I had my grey professionally rebuilt 3 years ago and was wondering if it is likely that these gears were replaced and if so (and assuming they are fibre gears) are they likely to give reliable service in a standard motor that doesn't (often) get flogged (what's the point flogging a standard grey anyway?).

Any wisdom that can be cast on this subject would be appreciated.

David

[mcl1959]

According to the grey motor God (Chips), there are mechanics and there are mechanics. Just because you spent megabucks on your new engine having it built, doesn't mean it will be right.  The front oiler is CRITICAL to keeping oil up to the fibre gears.
Chips has seen many motors put together wrong not only by backyarders, but also by so called experts.
There were mods done over the years as well to the models post FE and FC, so even if tou put back everything exactly how it was when you took it apart, there are possible improvements which can be made which were released in later models.
I think one of these was an enlarged oil return hole.
I cant remember all the details as Chips rattled them off.

Ken

[HARKO]

MCL the engine is of EK origin ,everything has been replaced precisely and accurately ,how about using the term backyarder's else where , It is a reletively simple task to replace a timing gear just a bad decision on my behalf to use an old one that for all I know had a zillion mile's on it and was subjected to an engine fry before I used it ,making it brittle
Or there could be a lot of alternate reason's why this gear didnt last too long ,and no I didnt smack it off with a claw hammer or slam the cam onto the ground with the gear in between to press it back on as a (Hmmmm backyarder would)

[Rod]

Harko, I think you are a little harsh on Ken here. I believe by reading the posts that he wasn't making this assumption about yourself. If you look at the post directly preceding his EJ Dave poses this question about his rebuild.

Please be careful. We can ill afford to put such brillant and knowledgable people off side to this site. Kens contribution has been extraordinary and I would hate to see him get the shits up and not contribute.

Anyway enough from me. All the best to you all and may Ken and many others continue to contribute to an excellent forum.

Rod

[craiga]

Well said Rod.

This forum is only as good as the people who take part, and all would who regularly spend time here would agree Ken is one of the most knowledgable people on the FE FC Series Holdens. He's helped me out on occasions and I for one will definately be buying him a beer at the next Nat's.

What's wrong with being a 'backyarder' anyway? You would find the majority of people on here would be happy to admit that they, due to lack of correct tools or money, took some sort of shortcut when working on their car. When was the last time you tuned your carby by ear and not using a 5 Gas Analyser and setting the NOX or C02 levels? Or fitted a gearbox without using a clutch aligning tool? Never twisted two wires together and taped them up?

Relax and enjoy.

Cheers,

Craig.

[Graeme]

Well said Rod and very well backed up by Craig.  

If Ken meant "backyarders" in any derogatory way then every person who has ever worked on a car would be offended.  I'm sure Ken was only describing one way people build cars - in their backyard like so many of us do - isn't that most of the fun with having cars like ours.

Keep up the great work with help and advice always given freely, Ken.  I'm only new here but have found your responses to others most helpful while tackling by own backyard rebuild.

Graeme.

[mcl1959]

Harko,  sorry - I was not intending to imply you were incompetent in any way, I used the term "backyarder" being the opposite of a trained garage mechanic.  
By definition a "backyarder" is someone who works out of their backyard, not necessarily incompetent or competent
I am a backyarder and proud of it.
I congratulate you on doing your own work and would only ever provide information that comes from my experience and I thought was helpful.
I am certainly not into intentionally knocking people and if you have read my previous posts, do not condone it either.

So Harko,  I hope this clears things up, and you can see what I was meaning.  No offence intended & I hope we can still remain friends

Now - back to the issue at hand

Things to watch with the oiler
The oil gallery leading to the oiler can become clogged due to the lack of a full flow filter on a grey.
When changing a timing gear you should remove the oiler and check that the gallery is clear.  Also the oiler can be installed pointing in the wrong direction.  This should be checked.
I know of a guy who did 3 timing gears in 2000 miles only to learn on the 4th change that the oil gallery was blocked and the gears were running dry.

These are things which can easily be missed.



Ken

[HARKO]

Sorry Ken , I guess I was still a little frustrated after being towed by a ford or something ,No hard feeling's mate
If you were at the all holden day this weekend I'd buy you a beer too ,You've been very helpfull in the past with absoloutely no hesitation ,I guess it a little hard to understand someone's personality from a computer screen (mine) didnt mean to sound so offensive.
and by the way if anyone is after some fibre gears a local mechanic specialising in FC EK sell's them for $85 the best I could do otherwise was $115 and up

[EJ_Dave]

I guess I'll just keep my fingers crossed and see what happens. And if the worst does happen I'm alot wiser now than I was and should be able to make a much more reliable fix.

My grey is a 138 'J' series grey (the last of the greys) so it should benefit from all the mods made in production over the life of the motor. I have heard that these are the most relaible of the greys. Hopefully the reconditioners did everything right and mine should benefit from these mods.

Thanks guys.

David

David

[ACE]

  A SIMPLE WAY OF CHECKING THE OILER WHILE THE DISTRIBUTOR IS OUT AND THE TIMING COVER IS OFF IS TO PUT A LONG FLATBLADE SCREWDRIVER DOWN THE DISTRIBUTOR HOLE AND TURN CLOCKWISE TO ENGAGE THE OIL PUMP. KEEP TURNING UNTIL A GOOD FLOW OF OIL COMES OUT. THIS ALSO PRIMES THE MOTOR FOR STARTING AFTER ASSEMBLY.(AFTER THE TIMING GEAR BREAKS MOST PEOPLE KEEP TRYING TO START THE CAR THIS DOES DEPRIVE THE ENGINE OF OIL AS THE CAMSHAFT DRIVES THE DISTRIBUTOR AND THE DISTRIBUTOR DRIVES THE OIL PUMP)
HOPE THIS IS OF INTEREST.
REGARDS ACE

[mcl1959]

Ace,  this is a great idea.   I remember now a friend of mine did something similar.   He stripped down an old dissy and put the shaft in a drill - this primed the engine nicely before starting.

Ken