New Clutch - Any tips?

[Philby]

Hi All,

I'm just about to replace the clutch in my 59 FC sedan.  I have the Shop Manual which is pretty easy to follow, however, I'm wondering if there are any tips you guys and gals may have?

The new clutch was supplied when I purchased the car, and I'm pretty confident It's the correct one, however, it would be good to double check that before I get started.  How do I go about checking this is the correct clutch?

One other thing I'm not sure about is the transmission oil.  Would I still be okay replacing the oil with SAE 90 Mineral, as per the Shop Manual, or should I consider thicker or synthetic due to age and miles?

Any advice appreciated.

Phil

[nicko]

only refill with recomended mineral oil,it is not worth playing around with other  oils like synthetic as you will most likely find later oils will make the box sound louder, .

[fe hotrod]

 ;)howdy phil, if you are going to install the new clutch 9 times out of 10 you will most likely have to machine the flywheel,and buy a reco preasure plate as well because these machined faces will most likely have been affected with heat stress marks which if you dont,  it could cause a shudder when you let the clutch out with the new clutch plate fitted,and i can asure you that you wont want to pull the gearbox out for the second time!! cheers jamie

[FB_MAD]

Dead right Jamie,ditto to your comment.Phil also make sure you don't install the clutch plate the wrong way around.Look at your replacement clutch plate and you will notice the centre metal hub containing the 4 (sometimes 6) springs has a flat face on one side and  raised a little on the other side.Make sure the flat face of the clutch plate goes toward the flywheel and the raised side to the pressure plate otherwise you will have no clutch action at all when its all together.
There is a spigot bush pressed into the end of the crankshaft which the gearbox input shaft end fits into when its all bolted together.Probably wouldn't hurt to check/replace  this bush at the same time although they are pretty long wearing bushes and last for a long time generally.There are a few different ways of getting the bush out, ask here if you need to know.Soak new bush in engine or gearbox oil 24 hrs prior to install as they are a sintered brass bush and will absorb oil.
Buy yourself a clutch aligning kit to align the clutch up unless you have access to an old gearbox input shaft or you have pretty good eyes at lineing it all up.
Replace the throwout bearing as well but if you have a complete clutch kit then this will be in it.

Hope this info helps,

Terry.

[Philby]

Thanks Jamie and Terry,

I have just been quoted $55 to get the flywheel machined by a respected Engineering shop.

I have a complete clutch kit to install so I'm hoping for a sweet drive on Sunday.  Sounds a bit optimistic but I'll learn  .

As a matter of interest, should I just replace the universal joints in the tailshaft while I have the transmission out?  I guess it would save some time and effort?

Cheers,

Phil

[FB_MAD]

  Check the unis for wear and replace if any movement or if the uni is seized or stiff to move otherwise I'd leave as is but if you want peace of mind then replace them.Not hard to pull the tailshaft out at a later date and do them.From memory the front unis are around $30 mark.If you have the original diff centre then rear uni is around $100 but if you are running red motor diff then rear uni will be around $30-$40 or so.

  Replacing unis can be a pain in the bum at times.Be carefull not to lose the needle rollers in the caps when installing.If your not confident take the shaft and new unis to a good mechanic........shouldn't charge you too much to install them.

Terry.

[greyone]

I use a half inch shaft wrap tape around it till its aneat fit then wrap tape about I inch further back untill it fits neatly in the clutch cheap you bet works atreat no good for twin platters though

[FB_MAD]

We would grab the workshop broom and cut off 6 inch or so,measure the spigot end of input shaft on gearbox and outside measurement of input shaft splines and turn it down to size in the lathe.
Boss would go crook at us for wrecking so many brooms so he eventually went and bought 10 or so broom handles at local hardware shop.
Greyone your idea mentioned is another good cheap method.

Terry.

[FB_MAD]

Whoops.....inside measurement of input shaft splines I mean't to say.......typo error there!

[greyone]

phil you want to scout around on the forum for the front uni I got quite a shock when I went to buy mine

[Philby]

Thanks everyone,

Your advice is greatly appreciated.  

I have disconnected everything I need to,  and will drop the transmission out tomorrow morning.

Does anyone know if I have to replace the clutch gear bearing as a part of installing a new clutch kit? Or will the old one be okay if its in good shape?


Cheers,  

Phil

[Philby]

I have now removed the cluth and have a simple but important question.
(sorry about the image sizes.  I'll get on to fixing that)

Which way does the clutch plate go?  


Is it an issue that there's a 3mm difference in lenght at the centre of the old and new clutch?  




Can I clean this protective coating with Turps? or should I use something elese? I know it says solvent but I'm not sure what is suitable.



Thanks again,

Phil

[FB_MAD]

Phil. As  per your first picture,the "flush" side of the clutch plate goes to the flywheel side and the "5 m.m raised" side of the plate goes to the pressure plate side.
Second photo, the size difference I don't think wouldn't matter much.
Third photo,clean the painted rust inhibitor off with petrol.You could use turps but I'd then clean with petrol anyway as turps is a bit oily and oil and clutches don't agree with each other.
When you say "clutch gear bearing" do you mean "throwout bearing" that is actuated by the clutch fork against the pressure plate diafragm?.If so it is good workshop practise to replace the throwout bearing with a new one when you replace the clutch assembly.A complete clutch kit will have this bearing in it.
If your old bearing spins okay with no excess movement and doesn't sound or feel dry then it may do for a while but you should really replace it for peace of mind.
Hope this helps,

Terry.

[Philby]

Hi All,

Thanks everyone for the advice and GP for your time and assistance.

I ended up getting the flywheel machined, new tailshaft uni joints and a new sproget bush.

After many hours (this is the first car I’ve really worked on), I was getting ready to go for a nice Sunday drive to wear the clutch in, however, to my distress, the damn thing wouldn’t work :-/.  

Clutch was spinning, I could hear some engagement in the bell housing but could not put the car into gear.  All adjustments were made and the clutch felt good and seemed to do everything but engage.

After trouble-shooting as much as I could (without success), I called in the experts. A couple of possibilities were identified, all of which required taking out the transmission again.  Not happy Jan!!!

Anyway, I got the transmission out and began my investigation.  

My report is:

1. Clutch plate was the correct way around.
2. Not much (if any) lube on the splines.
3. Possibly too much grease on the front and back of the Throwout Bearning.
4. Clutch plate seemed to stick a bit towards the back of the clutch gear and against the throwout bearing.
4. Throwout Bearing doesn’t contact the cushioning springs at all.  It only contacts the metal where the splines go through (see photo).

My plan of attack is to:

1. Make sure I have the right clutch.  This one fits okay, but the fact that the thowout bearing doesn’t contact the clutch very much seems an issue?  Also, I didn’t buy the clutch kit, it was provided when I bought the car.  
2. Lube the splines with a thin coat of grease when I assemble it again.
3. Wipe excess grease from the front and back of the throwout bearing.

If anyone has any ideas about what else I could do I’d be happy to hear from you.

Is this an issue?


Here is the before and after of the flywheel


Cheers,

Phil

[ACE]

Hi Phil,
It looks to me like you have assembled the clutch, pressure plate and thrust bearing in the wrong order!!!
Bolt the clutch and pressure plate onto the flywheel and fit the thrust race into the carrier in the gearbox bellhousing.
The thrust race contacts the Pressure Plate when you put your foot on the clutch.
Hope this Helps
Regards ACE  

[customFC]

Hey Phil.
Like Ace said, sounds like you may have something out of sequence.
The clutch is the meat in the sandwich between the flywheel and the pressure plate. The bearing when engaged places force onto the pressure plate, disengaging the clutch. This bearing never comes into contact with the clutch plate, so the issues you express in your diagram are mute.
Check out this site for a cool diagram that shows the movement when you press the button.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/clutch3.htm
This diagram shows an exploded view and order of assembly. just press the button.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/clutch2.htm
Regards
Alex

[Philby]

Thanks guys,


Unfortunately I didn't think about this one too well (bad investigation skills).  It was assembled correctly, however, when looking at the parts trying to figure out what was going wrong, I neglected to look at the whole clutch assembly and consider the cover that goes between the plate and bearing (must have been tired and frustrated).  I guess there is no issue with that one now?


Phil

[FB_MAD]

Phil, I've sent you a PM with my ph number if you need any help at all.

Terry.

[ACE]

Hi Phil,
If the clutch,pressure plate and thrust bearing is assembled correctly check the arm that the thrust bearing is fitted to to see if it is bent or broken (replace if necessary).
If all looks O.K. check the clutch hydraulics.
Regards ACE  

[Philby]

Thank goodness for you guys.   I'd be high and dry without this advice!!


I'm wondering if the new sprigot bush could be causing my clutch problem?  I have racked my brains and looked at all the parts and I can't see anything really wrong.

I'm thinking the sprigot bush may be too tight on the gear-shaft and although the clutch is releasing the drive from the flywheel, the gear-shaft is still being spun by the tight sprigot?  

I soaked the sprigot bush in oil for 2 days and dropped a couple of very small drops of oil on it when I installed it, but I do remember it being quite tight on the gearshaft GP loaned me when lining up the clutch for installation.

Also there was a bit of a squealing sound coming from a very central location (possibly sprigot bush) when I was trying to get the thing to work.

I'm thinking a light smear of grease might help reduce the friction along with cleaned and lightly greased splines might do the job.

Any thoughts?

Phil