My first question...re paint!!

[20.4_seconds]

Well I have my first resto question  
Now I'm not getting ahead of myself...just got a bit of extra cash and I want to organise a few things.  

What I need to know is quantities and good products that you guys have used.

So after I take the wagon back to bare metal and do all the bodywork and get everything ready   I'm ready to Etch Prime it right?  

(a)I was going to look at PPG Paints and use a 1K Etch primer.  So for two coats, how many ltrs am I looking at?

or

(b)do I use a thinned out lacquer based spray filler as a primer  
then

(c)When I get to the top coats in acrylic paints I'm looking at 2 to 4 coats of each colour?
How many Ltrs is that on a wagon?  

and last one...
(d)If I put 4 or 5 coats of clear coat on at the end...how many ltrs will I need for that.  

If I have left important points out please excuse my ignorance and if I have the amounts way out of whack please forgive me.  

Is all of that the most expensive way to do it? If so please add your own cheaper methods....

I would also appreciate it if you guys can comment from your own experience rather than what you heard from someone else.

Nick

[TorqueFC]

ok first things first

with all of the painting and stuff we have done, best brand would have to be motorspray. this is quite a popular brand and is found almost anywhere eg supercheap, autobarn, auto pro, repco etc etc etc.

once you have a area of baremetal, you will need to first blow the are off using a air gun hooked up to our compressor. after this, you will need to use a rag (must be really clean, and not a rag that will leave fluff), and continuesly wash the area over until your rags are no longer picking up anymore dirt. then you are ready to let the panel air dry (also when painting, make sure the car is not in an area where there is bad wind or there is a chance of dust blowing around). then theres your paint to do. we foudn that a gravity fed gun is best to use, but if you cannot source one, a standard gun will do, after all its only etch!!ay super etch primer we usually mix it 40-60 (40%paint, 60% thinners) (tinners is superglow). after a few goes at doing this, you will soon figure it out and you will soon have your own way of doing it.after this is applied and fully hardened, sand with around 300 grit all over, with exceptions to where you have used filler, on filler you can use 36 or 80, 80 is best.

of course now youd be going through and finding all of your dents/rust and doing the repairs. after this process is done, your then ready for spray putty ( im pretty sure thats what its called, bit vague), on the tin of the motorspray one it says thinning not require, thats bullsh*t, it needs to be thinned around 50-50.

after this is apllied and hardened sand back with around 600 grit. keep sanding as this is more of a guide coat-and is best used to fill in small ripples, and extremely shallow dents. once you are happy with the lines of the car, and think it is where you want it you will need to apply a light coat of primer surfacer, usually this is the same or similar color to your final coat.

once this is aplied and hardened, sand back with 1200 grit paper, and keep sanding, you may need to apply 2 seperate coats of this!!

finally, your final coat of paint before clear. its all up to you as for color and that, just make sure that your prepping is right, and inbetween everycoat of paint you sand and thoroughly wash the panel clean of dirt.

as for clear, i suggest any motorspray brand

i hope this helps you out alot, any questions regarding this gimme a yell

[HARKO]

And who say's you need 4 year's of tech hey Torque.

Here's my 2 bob's worth .

Use a long peice of straight timber with sand paper for a straight finish on filler over large area's, and make sure you never sand in one direction only ,think as you sand about the contour of the panel and work it baby.

2K Primer or Hi Fill is excelent for acrylic also but wear apropriate mask/safety gear.

Don't use spot putty with 2K paint's

And a rule of thumb for a good paint mix is to dip something into your thinned paint and allow four drip's before it stop's dripping.

Keep dust away when spraying and you'll be doing it like a pro in no time.

Just be patient grasshopper.

[Ed]

Hey Nick,

Generally PPG is on the upper end of paint in terms of price and quality.

For example,  1K etch is $90/litre,  perhaps 2 to 3L should be OK, you dont need to hose this on, just a light coat is enough.

on another point I reckon the acrylic paints are poor, both in gloss and durability but if you want a low sheen period finish then it's perfect.  This is a personal preference really.

how much paint?

base coat (main colour) I used 5L
top colour about 2L

for an acrylic job you will need a 20L drum of good thinners too.

Hi Fill primer.. 4 med-wet coats, close to 10L.
on top of that was reducer/thinner, gun cleaner etc.

materials alone for a good paint job can set you back well over $1500.
I sourced all my materials from a paint supplier and was given trade price too.

this doesnt include any POR-15 cost either.

this will probably cause some controversy but with paint you really get what you pay for.

hope this helps a bit.

Cheers

Ed

[TorqueFC]

ed

i fully disaree with you when you say that acrylic paints are 'poor'. if you have the good prep that has taken you hours and hours of sanding to get straight, and your gun is setup well you can have it spraying perfect, for example we had some custom acrylic paint made up-rasberry pearl. we prepped it really well, made sure it was perfect then setup the gun and sprayed. it has a really really high shine and that was straight out of the gun-also it doesnt even need cutting!!!

i guesss it all comes down to personal choice-if you wish to keep it simple and easy for your first time painting stick with the acrylic as its such a simple system-not to expensive either!!!

anyway maybe we need a few more opinions on paint acrylic vs 2pak

[TorqueFC]

also, you will easily go through a 20 litre drum of thinners, we were half way through a car (ute) and realised we needed another 20 to finish it!!!!

[Ed]

Hey torque,

I've had good results using acrylic but had brilliant results using COB, far exceeding acrylic.

If you guys want to use acrylic that's cool, I'm just throwing out options for consideration.

Cheers

Ed

[HARKO]

Im with ED
Give acrylic a couple of years in the sun and it may develop the hard finish that 2K has overnight or whilst baking in the oven.
Using 2k undercoat aloows the acrylic to have that hard surface to build on and gives good results.
Compare side by side a well prepped acrylic job and a well prepped 2k job and the 2k looks like a toffee apple compared to a granny smith....
My wagon has 14 year old paint / acrylic on it and still doesnt buff up to some 2k stuff I have here.

But in saying all this I totaly agree with personal choice and opinion.
My old man hates seeing a Rod in 2k because its just another lollie as he would say.

[Ed]

Darcy has a good point tho about novice painters (like me) using acrylic.
It is very much easier.
(Alfio painted my wagon, i only do smaller stuff using 2K.. it seems to attract dirt like anything.

dont want to get in to the paint choice thing too much but seeing as these cars go back to bare, why not give em a finish that will last another 50 years (hopefully).

we buffed part of the EH (acrylic) back and used some good compound the results are good for the effort/paint/time tht was invested.

got brilliant results using 3M "Perfect-it" buff, polish pads and glaze etc.
on COB and acrylic finishes.. no swirl marks at all.


Cheers

Ed

[parisian62]

Hey Torque/Ed/Harko,

thanks for that useful paint info.

Ed,

Can you expand a little on your POR15 experience?  Did you use it just for the chassis/underbody or did you use it on panels as well?  If you used it on panels did you use the tie-coat or sand it back prior to any further top coats?

Hopefully I'm not hijacking this thread on you Nick.

Regards
Stewart

[TorqueFC]

i know what ya's mean, been tehre done that!!, but i do know, starting off with 2pak might be a bad idea, mixing hardener/thinner/paint is harder than paint/thinners, quite simple really. i guess its all up to nick which way he wants to go-paint is one thing, technique is another!!! you will find after a few coats of paint that you will have your own technique. nick if your game to try 2pak, go for it, im just saying for a beginner acrylic is quick and simple (hope it doesnt sound like im having a dig at anybody, if it seems like it, im not )

really though i think we should have a few more inputs-not just for nicks sake, but for other people (including me) who would like to know more

[20.4_seconds]

Thanks guys for everything so far. brilliant advice on all fronts
I’m going with acrylic as I want to use the car as an everyday driver and I want to be able to repair scratches without too much drama that plus the cost

So in short I  need  about 20lts of a good thinners

I need about 2 to 3  ltrs of undercoat / etch, no matter what type?

I need about 10 ltrs of primer filler?

I need 5 ltrs of topcoat for main body of the car and I need 2 ltrs for the roof area or is this the clear coat?

If that is all correct then how many coats of each are applied to the car

Nick

[the_love_god]

Well its alwayes best to use two pack primer then your single pack paints,so you have a much better finish,less sink backs,then when you use single top coats use 2k reducer thinners just add about 15% with you paint and use less thinners,this will give you a good gloss for single pack paints.you only need to put at lest 3 to 4 coats of two pack HS primer.this will give you good adhesive.and filling as long you repairs are good.you must use an acid before you  two pack primer,this will clean the metal from rust you may not see.you do not need a ech primer.There are so many way to do a paint job,l have been in the trade for 21 years and have restored over 10 early holden of mine own .There is a way to save time and money and still do a good job, good luck and l hope you do well . From Alfio M.

[20.4_seconds]

Ok...I'm confused and maybe I need to clarify some things.
All I want at the moment is someone who has painted their wagon with Acrylic paints to tell me roughly what quantities of
(a) Undercoat

(b) top coat

(c) clear coat

(d) thinners - 20lt's ..I got this..

that they used, all the questions about prep work were going to follow..
I just need an idea of how much I'm looking at before I go into the paint shop.

Nick

[colt]

Nick, we painted my sedan last year. All one colour. Acrylic. I bought: 8 lt. top coat, used about 7.
4 lt.clear, used about 3. 40 lt. thinners, nearly all gone. Don't forget thinners is also used to clean guns, etc.
I'm happy with the job, that's all that matters.
HTH, Colin.

[fccool59]

While on the subject I have a question, its been a few years and I am rusty on the subject.
Before spraying 2k primer is there any advantage in using etch primer, its under the car and I want good adhesion.
99% is bare metal.
I only have dulon 1k etch and it is a pretty old can, would it be ok, also if using a etch primer and I am unsure if it is compatible with the (concept brand) acid I have, should I skip using the acid deoxidiser first?

and while talking about acrylic vs 2k, I prefer acrylic but if your car lives out side it will need to be polished more often, Also I prefer 2k on engine bays becuase it is ready of the gun and save a pain in the arse job of buffing around all the ridges, it handles spilled chemicals better and doesn't dull of so easy with heavy degreasers.
2k also seems to be better than engine enamel for egines becuase it stays on and cleans easy.
I have always used acrylic , my last paint job was acrylic, the blue had 2k primer under it and clear mixed into the last four coats, on the final coat it was almost completely clear with 2k thinners added to make the last coat flow out nice and flat.
the first time I painted it blue and white I spent 2 weeks on cutting and buffing wich ended up like glass.
The second time I coulnt be stuffed but it still came up ok.
being a detailer for 13 years my car was always kept clean at work and I never noticed it to dull off, but after it sitting on its side since easter the paint has all turned to crows feet on the side facing up.