Power Steering v6

[HARKO]

 ???If anyone know's anything about fitting power steering along with a v6 please let me know even if you heard it on the grape vine / I have seen an EH Ute at bargo swap that had a 302 in it apparently to fit the power steer' But then this will be in an FC so I guess the dimensions are slightly different again
And if anyone can tell me how to post photo's to this site you have no idea how greatfull I would be
                                                                                      Harko.

[Glenn 'Stinky' Stankevicius]

Best see the experts with these types of conversions.
No doubt a commodore rack conversion will get you the power steering option.

http://www.v6conversions.com.au

or

http://www.rodshop.com.au

Cheers

[HARKO]

After talking to a bloke today about his power steer conversion in an FC I have been very well informed about what mod's need doing & hardware to use Thank you -
Harko

[sgo]

I for one  , as I'm sure many others are ,would be interested in some info on this mod, so could you post some of what you've learnt on this board?
Thanks, George.

[spider]

 ;)G'Day Harko,
                        I also would be interested in the information you have of putting power steering on a FC.
As i am looking to put one on the wifes FE .
Regards
           Spider

[HARKO]

Sorry fella's I can't pass on any info because the guy I spoke to was very reluctant to show me and I know he wouldnt appreciate me sharing his hour's and hour's of research,money and heartache in one short posting on this site ,I'm very sorry but I'd like to stay a man of my word the only other advive I could offer is as Stinky said to try the Rodshop or V6 Conversion's -I didnt actualy get in touch with these companies so I'm not sure if they cover power steering ,One hint on what I did see is that geometry wise it make's a Hadfeild kit leave a bit to be desired,sorry /Harko

[air-chief]

Every one spends time & $$ on working things out on mods.  You asked the question to start with! Now you know the answer you won't share it with others
So answer this: Next time you ask for advise, why should anyone share their knowledge with you?

[FEHOLDEN]

GIDDAY AIRCHIEF

I KNOW WHAT YOU ARE SAYING AND I DON'T DISAGREE WITH IT. BUT HAVING SAID THAT WE ARE NOT ALL AS GENEROUS WITH OUR INFORMATION AS OTHERS WOULD LIKE.

IF HE HAS BEEN SWORN TO SECRECEY BY THE OTHER SELFISH BASTARD THEN WE HAVE TO RESPECT THAT WHETHYER WE LIKE IT OR NOT.

DONT BE SO HARD ON HIM AND PERHAPS YOU MAY BE ABLE TO PICK UP SOME MORE INFO ON YOUR STRING RE RACK AND PINION STEERING AS WHAT I HAVE READ THERE HAS BEEN QUITE INFORMATIVE EVEN THOUGH I DON'T ENVISAGE THIS CONVERSION FOR MYSELF.

HOPE YOU DON'T THINK I AM BEING TOO HARSH ON YOU


DENIS

[air-chief]

What gets me is that some one gets on here and says their found the perfect set up for P/S into FC but can't tell. Why write it in the first place??
They also bag others steering kits by calling them backyard jobs compared to his, but can't show us the proof to back up this claim.  

[HARKO]

Air cheif "Dont shoot the messenger"I will respect the not selfish but generous person who showed me something which his instinct's told him to do otherwise ,No one like's a blabber mouth and I am not one ,I do understand your agro and have been there,and just like myself you will come across what your looking for soon enough,/ Harko
PS I mentioned a Hadfeild kit and backyard job in the same sentence - if ever you've had a close look and or driven one you will understand and this is purely my opinion....

[air-chief]

Do worry, I have come across a set up. Just need to make it fit, then I'll share it.

[Sarge]

Air-Chief
            Will be very interested in what you come up with. Also Harko why dont you have a good talk to your friend for what goes around comes around. He to may need some help one day. Keep me posted Air - Chief

Regards
Sarge

[Disappointed Bloke]

This message appears in two parts, please see second half below.

I guess that I am the person that Harko refers to in his post dated 15 June 2002 (AKA “Selfish Bastard”).  I am sorry that it has taken this long to respond, but I only get a chance to look at your site about once a week.  I think that it may be worthwhile setting the record straight by making a number of points clear.

Firstly, Harko neglects to mention that the cross member that I am developing is far from complete, has never been in a car let alone driven on (probably not for another year) and therefore is still experimental.  To date I have spent two and a half years and a small fortune testing different ideas and educating myself about steering geometry (as everyone (including members of your club) was of the clear opinion that what I was aiming to do was impossible).  Despite the negative sentiments, I persisted (as neither Pat Gardner or Rod Hadfield offer power steering kits for HR cross members) and am glad that I did as the front end that I now have SHOULD deliver all that I wished to achieve.  I emphasise the word ‘should’ as this is the third attempt (and is not even constructed by me) to get it right and until it is right there is no point sending people off on wild goose chases wasting time and money on something that may not work.  To this effect, ‘Air Chief’ has adopted the same approach as me in his post dated 16 June 2002 by waiting until his idea is correct before telling everyone.  On this point alone I commend him.

Harko also makes reference to other conversion racks being “back yard jobs” relative to mine.  These are Harko’s sentiments and words, NOT MINE.  Harko has tried to make this clear, but looking at the posts, this has been lost on some people.  I merely articulated an opinion (gained through experience) that a certain type of rear mounted rack, available as part of a conversion kit, offers an insufficient turning circle.  I am sure that many know what I am talking about and would strongly agree.  I am not in the business of slandering others work (or “bagging out’ as Air Chief has so elegantly put it), especially when I am someone self taught in vehicle modification.  Personally I am grateful that there are so many after-market components available to those wishing to undertake a range of conversions without the heartache of having to do all the development yourself which inevitably causes frustration and is draining on time and money.  If you look at something and feel that it could be better and you go out and make it better it does not mean that yours is the best or that criticises another’s work, it is merely your own interpretation of how it should be – end of story.

[Disappointed Bloke]

Part 2:

As for Air Chief’s suggestion that I am unwilling to share my information, you couldn’t be further from the truth.  I have written an extensive technical article that covers a large range of topics related to steering conversions for the HR cross member including the benefits of front and rear mounted racks (ie shortened Torana, Commodore, Austin 1800, Laser and Peugeot), conventional drag links, manual versus power and the pros and cons of each, the principles of Ackerman and bump steer, steering arm selection, tie rod end tapered bushes, the location of tie rod rack pivot points, rack mounts, correct rack length and shortening racks, power steering pump pressures of the Holden/Buick V6 together with drawings explaining steering geometry an photographs of my front end.  This kind of article would have saved me the aforementioned grief and personally I feel that it had the potential to save anyone considering a steering swap in an early model Holden a lot of time, money and guesswork.  The only reason that I had not shared it yet is simply because the cross member is not finished and therefore not tested.  When it was finished I had intended to post it at your site for all to see, but I guess that you have buggered that now – well done.

As for not being generous, I feel gutted by this comment.  I have spent many hours talking to many people who have visited to look at my cars progress.  Only two weeks ago I spent nearly four hours showing one of your clubs members the cross member and explained to him in depth the principles on which it was built.  This is not bad as currently I am only able to spend about 8 hours a week working on the car.  As for Harko, I don’t think that I could have been more generous with information other than to give him my cross member to take home as a souvenir.  I have no idea about this veil of secrecy that apparently exists around my garage.  All that I can say about that is that it is a load of complete and utter crap.

All that I have done is set out to achieve a goal all the while being more than happy to share any information and in the process I have been slammed for it.

What you have achieved though is to disappoint me greatly.  Unfortunately, when building a car it is inevitable that you will encounter people who are either out to rip you off, do dodgy work or just plain piss you off.  Fortunately, I find that these people are rare and you only run into them once or twice a year.  In this instance, it looks as though I have been unlucky and found a number of people who fall into the latter category all at once.  For those who were interested in the article that I have written or were interested in learning all about steering conversions, please let Air Chief, Sarge and SGO know what a great job they have done in pissing people off as right now, in light of their comments, I doubt that I could be bothered with it.

[sgo]

Dear Disapointed Bloke, I think that if you look at the responses to Harkos original request  they would seem to be quite balanced with someone  being in agreement with just about every viewpoint!I dont think anyone named you personally so the comments should be taken as general ones regarding the reactions to the original question, not aimed just at you.
I note that you did pick up some new knowledge on the ABC thread, as did I and Im sure many others, and would hope that that sharing of experiences continues?
Cheers.

[Jason Woods]

I DON’T USUALLY GET INVOLVED IN THIS SORT OF STUFF BUT I WANTED TO STICK UP FOR THE DISAPPOINTED BLOKE.
HE SOUNDS LIKE SOMEONE WHO KNOWS WHAT HE IS ON ABOUT AND HAS SOME GOOD INFO ON R & P CONVERSIONS.  I HAVE WANTED TO PUT POWER STEERING IN MY EK BUT HAVE ALWAYS BEEN TOLD IT CANT BE DONE.  THEN SOMEONE HAS AN ANSWER AND AIR CHIEF SGO SARGE AND FE HOLDEN STUFF IT UP FOR EVERYBODY.
SGO I SAW YOUR REPLY TO HIM AND I DON’T THINK THAT YOU COULD HAVE GOT IT MORE WRONG IF YOU TRIED.
JASON

[RET]

Guys,

I chose not to stick my oar into this last week, but in light of the fresh posts on the topic.....

Harko,
If you got some answers that helped you, but you can't share them, better to say nothing at all than tell everyone that you're sworn to secrecy.  It's little wonder that people get their back up.  This is a community where people help each other.  Air-Chief is bang on when he says

What gets me is that some one gets on here and says their found the perfect set up for P/S into FC but can't tell. Why write it in the first place??

 I think you did the Disappointed Bloke a disservice by not making clear why you weren't providing greater detail.

Disappointed Bloke,
You know who you are. Harko knows who you are.  And from what you've written, clearly some other members know you as well.  Maybe I do too?  Now I thought that "selfish bastard" was laying it on a bit thick, but for all intents and purposes on this board, you're just some anonymous dude.  Now if Harko had said, "I saw what DB is working on with his conversion kit, and it looks like it will kick arse when it's finished", no doubt the club members who know you would have said to themselves, "Oh DB, yeah, he knows his stuff, I'll look forward to seeing the finished product.", and probably posted something similar. If you have a look around these boards, there's plenty of praise heaped on the people who participate and do or make stuff - Ken McLean's wiper motors for example, or Ed's demisters.  I think you're being a little sensitive, and apart from the "selfish bastard" comment I singled out previously, the other blokes you mention aren't really having a go at you.  Sarge only asked that Harko lean on you to share your knowledge, and it sounds like you had planned to do that at the appropriate time anyway.  I hope you'll reconsider your response to what's been posted here and continue to develop your technical article for our education.  After all, there are 180+ members on this board, and only a handful have taken issue with the whole secrecy thing.

Everyone else,
Please try to avoid being inflammatory.  Rule #1 of forums is "Never post when angry."

RET

[air-chief]

If you look at my posts, I'm pissed about someone getting on the chat going ha ha I know the answer but can't tell. This isn't directed at D.B but at Harko. To get on here and ask about fitting P.S is one thing. If your found the answer then good for you, but if you can't share it at all don't rub it in peoples faces posting that you know the how too now.

Disappointed Bloke, before you blame ME for buggering anything up, read what I have posted and understand it. My posts are directed to HARKO and not yourself.

If you really want to blame someone blame HARKO for bring you into the spot light!

[Disappointed Bloke]

Air Chief
I guess that if anyone is guilty of anything here, it is me, NOT Harko.  As I said, I believe that it is not worth wasting other peoples time on something that may not be right.  All that I wanted was to wait until the car was finished before telling everybody about it.  As I said before, this is exactly what Air Chief is doing with his power steer front end and I believe it is the right approach.
As far as I am concerned, the matter is finished and I am not going to go any further with it.  I am not interested in pointing the finger at anybody or being the cause of any more grief.  Harko is a top bloke and as far as I’m concerned has never put a foot wrong.  He is also someone willing to go out on a limb and build a car that I think is awesome.  All Harko did was agree with me and if this deserves any flack, direct it at me.
Fellas I think that we should all cool our heels and leave it there.  This is meant to be a sport where everybody has a good time, not a slanging match.  What do you think.

[RET]

D.B.,

I couldn't agree with you more.  You need to get yourself a new handle, BTW.  I hope the disappointment abates  If you haven't seen it, check out the club's Technical section at http://www.fefcholden.org.au/techinfo/index.html.  You'll see we've published a couple of articles there about ways to do certain mods and so on.  I hope to add your article on understanding steering geometry and power steering one day.  Between you and Ken, it doesn't sound like there's much you don't know!

Everyone,
Slanging matches, flame-wars etc not welcome here.  Plenty of that to be had at http://fastlane.com.au's discussion board, if you feel the need :-/