Almost got it!

[Glenn 'Stinky' Stankevicius]

I think I am a "knat's nasty" away from firing the motor.
Just had the Carby fixed and tested, petrol is getting there.
When kicking it over, it is firing, but it won't run by itself.
Adjusting the dizzy position helps, but I have tried it through the entire range of movement.

Any tips?
Where should I start the dizzy? It seems to work best with the vacuum advance pinned against the sideplate.

Just found this -
http://gallery.oldholden.com/ReaperHR/HRWorkguides/Blue_Electronic_Ignition/HEI1.jpg.html

Looks like I might be spending some time sorting the timing.....Oooops  

Any tips appreciated none the less.

[SpeciFEcation]

Are you sure that the distributor timing is correct?

I had what it seems you describe on my grey. I was out one 'cog' on the distributor timing. It would fire but not run on (...its own).

Changing the advance made a small difference but not enough to run properly.

Re-setting the distributor timing fixed the problem.

Just guesses.....

[greyside]

have u static timed her. top dead center etc.they can be a fraction out ..........has the dizzy been out,
and replaced after cranking her

[Glenn 'Stinky' Stankevicius]

Thanks guys, I found that I need to "static" time the Dizzy.
As a mechanic I make a good PC Technician  

[Flamed_FE]

don't do my trick and put it in 180 degrees out.  Pull out first spark plug and make sure you can see the top of the piston (or stick something in and feel it)

[craiga]

Just seeing the piston at the top of its stroke doesn't really confirm the right spot. It could be at TDC exhaust or TDC intake.

To find TDC compression stroke stick your Mrs' finger in the No1 spark plug hole and wind the engine over by hand until your Mrs starts to whinge because air is escaping from around her freshly manicured fingernail. This way you get an audible warning of compression stroke.

Now just rotate the engine slowly until the timing mark on the harmonic balancer (red) or flywheel (grey) is lined up with the timing mark on the block (red) or bellhousing pointer (grey).

Install your dizzy so the rotor's leading edge is below the No1 spark plug lead on the dizzy cap. On red motors this spot is marked with a line on the top of the dizzy housing - not sure if the grey has this?

With points ignition you can then move the dizzy to a position where the points are just starting to open. This has statically timed the engine.

It won't be exactly right, but it will get the motor running from where you can make final timing adjustments.

Cheers,

Craig.

[Glenn 'Stinky' Stankevicius]

Still no luck guys and I am almost at my wits end  :-/

Fuel is there, as confirmed by the fuel pressure gauge just before the carb, I also fitted a bit of clear line today just to make sure. I have also pulled down the fuel pump and checked that and the lines.

Did the static timing as per instructions, made sure air was coming out the spark plug hole when checking TDC. Got the piston to TDC and made sure the dizzy was lined up on the No 1 cylinder. Spark is confirmed on every spark plug.

I had the iginition switch out tonight to double check that and it is fitted as per instructions.

There is no longer any backfiring and the engine stumbles along when the starter is engaged. Once I release the starter the motor just stops. Firing is happening in the cylinders as the pipes are getting hot and there is a cackle out the exhaust.

One thing I did notice when taking out the flat battery was that the positive and negative leads were both quite warm. Is this normal? or could that be a problem, these are the same leads I used when the motor was in another car a few years ago.

[colt]

Stinky, you say when you release the starter the motor just stops. You may have the ignition switch wired wrong. Check for 12volts at coil with ignition sw. at 'on' position. All the start position should do is activate starter. You could have starter & coil wires on starter position on ig. sw.
Colin

[Glenn 'Stinky' Stankevicius]

I'll check, but I think a better description is that it will not run by itself. Even though it is firing when the starter is engaged, the motor does not feel like it's going to run by itself once the starter stops.

[craiga]

Glenn,

It sounds dumb but check the coil is wired correctly - points to -ve side, battery (ign switch) to +ve side. If its fitted back to front firing voltage will be very low and will only sort of ignite the fuel.

I can't remember - do you have points or electronic ignition fitted? either way try to get your hands on a dwell meter and check that the dwell angle is around 30 degrees.

Still sounds like timing or spark issue to me, but what if you tip a little fuel down the throat of the carby - does it fire then? This would prove if the ignition system was OK, and put the blame in the direction of the fuel system.

Cheers,

Craig.

[smithy]

hi stinky, sounds like the same problem i had also ed had a similar problem ( we both used the airide kit).

firstly what ignition switch are you using?

with mine ( switch from H /T,K,G) which has 2 ign positions, car would turn over but as soon as switch was released car would stop. ignition wire ( red  i forget the number) was hooked up to ign 1 position on the switch. switched wire to ign 2, no good, a mechenic mate who happened to pop around the same day suggested bridging ign 1 and 2 with a small heavy gauge wire, the same as ign wire in kit.
this worked a treat, and still no problems.
must be the way these kits are wired up.

i can have a look and take some pics of the back of the ign switch if you need, or drop ED a pm he may be able to discribe it better.

good luck
dean

[Blown_FC]

Stinky, I'm no mechanic so feel free to laugh at or ignore what I'm about to say.

If your motor is turning over on ignition, but it's not firing, one would expect to see fuel coming out the exhaust at some point ( as it's going in but not being burnt )....if this is the case, how old is the fuel, could you be using stale fuel from a jerry can or water in it maybe

If you are not getting fuel out the back end and it's still not firing under ignition, but you are getting a spark, then check your plugs ( are the wet )....if not, then the fuel is NOT getting through !

Like I say...laugh or ignore, but sometimes its the silliest and simplest things that have the biggest effect.

Cheers

Mark

[Ed]

Hi Stinky,
Frustrated yet?
I shared the same problem… at the ON position the coil has power.
At the START position the coil does not have power.
And thus the motor refuses to start.
I discovered this when I gave the coil power and then jumped the starter from alternate power.
What’s the fix?
I ran a diode between the IGN ON and START wires.
I bridged the wires between ON and start and put a diode in line to prevent feedback to the starter circuit when the switch is in the ON position.
Can give u pics when I resume working on the car again.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Ed

[craiga]

The ignition circuit described is used where a non-resistor coil is fitted. Two wires run from the ignition switch - one from the cranking or start position (this is a non-resistive wire) and one from the run position (this is a resistive wire). This is used in place of a ballast resistor, and limits the current through the primary winding of the coil and therefore the points when the car is running.

On cranking the battery voltage drops to around 10 Volts, so the resistive wire is bypassed and direct connection is made to the coil primary. This ensures maximum spark under engine cranking.

It could be this, easy to test, just run a jumper wire from the battery positive to the coil positive. Crank the engine using the starter switch or by shorting from the starter motor +ve to the solenoid. This will crank the car and it should start. Its also how you can steal early Holdens without a steering wheel lock or other theft preventative measures. Its that easy.

BE WARNED!!!

Cheers,

Craig.

[Glenn 'Stinky' Stankevicius]

Thanks again guys,

1. Electronic Dizzy from a Commondore

2. Wiring at the coil looks OK, Pink from ign switch and dizzy to +ve on coil, green from Dizzy to -ve.

3. Fuel is at the carby, the carby has been checked and run on a speedboat motor. Fuel pressure gauge just before carby says I getting between 5 and 7 psi when cranking.

4. There is power to the +ve of the coil with the key in the ON position. I only have a test light so I can only assume it's 12 volts.

5. I have not wired up any resistors, I thought they were only needed for points?

6. I went through every spark plug, pulled it out and connected it to it's dizzy lead. Put a ground to the thread and cranked the motor. Every plug produced a spark.

7. The motor is firing when cranked, the headers are getting hot.

8. I have checked and re-checked a lot of the "silly little things" suggested.

9. Original FE/FC starter switch is being used.

Does the ignition switch need to be earthed?

The symptoms are probably close to what CraigA suggests about "just igniting the fuel".

[Glenn 'Stinky' Stankevicius]

Just ran a bypass from the +ve on the battery to the +ve on the coil and it made no difference.

[craiga]

Glenn,

Have you seen that particular dizzy work before? If not, the spark timing could be wrong as its controlled by the module inside the dizzy itself. Have you got a points dizzy handy? If so throw that in as a quick test.

Ignition switch doesn't need to be earthed.

Keep at it!!

Cheers,

Craig.

[smithy]

i know its going to sound silly but i was originally using a standard FC switch and was getting problems, turned out switch itself was faulty. this is why i changed switches.

the standard switch should be earthed by the dash dash suround i think. with my HT switch i ran an extra earth wire off it .  my FC key barrel fitted into the switch too.

stinky, i am using  same setup as you as far as carbed intake and electronic dizzy.

[craiga]

The ignition switch is electrically isolated from the chassis as it is in series with the solenoid and coil +ve wires. The body of the switch is earthed, only because of the way it is mounted to the dash. Earthed or not earthed, doesn't matter, it will have no effect on the operation of the switch.

FWIK all early Holdens used the same ignition switch, I think  right up to and past HQ? The body may be different, but the switch is the same. And you can still buy these brand new.

[Glenn 'Stinky' Stankevicius]

All the gear that has gone into the car is the same set-up I ran in my torana ages ago. The dizzy was fine back then and I have no reason to see why it isn't now.

It's great getting all the help and trying to sort it out myself, but I think I am getting close to calling in an auto leccy.

Could there be anything else? as CraigA put it in another post, it seems as though the fuel is ONLY just being ignited. The motor does not rev strongly when cranking and dies as soon as the starter goes off.