the risky shortcut to jindabyne (FCCOOL Tidy up)

[fccool59]

 The chrome bits are from a 58 ford edsel, the part between that wich is attachetd to the rod that the chrome part screws to is hand made and probably the most complicated part of the lot, it also attaches to the parts the headlight screw to wich is a factory part from stuff knows what and has been cut in half and welded back together to bring the headlights closer together.

[graham_fuller]

Leon,
Keep up the hard work.Hope to see the car in the flesh at the Nats.
Cheers,
Graham

[fccool59]

Graham it dont look like its gonna make it, but as I said last time I saw you, I am just going to keep going till the time comes.
The roof is now in primer but still needs a few areas rubbed back and bogged and then I will re prime it, rest of the car is almost completely bare metal except some bits in hard to get spots mainly in the door jambs, I was using a wire wheel on these but the method is chewing drills., there is still heaps of welding, bogging and priming to do, and the natoinals is dam close.
I have had our concierge from work over in the last 2 weekends striping paint and he is running out of paint to strip, I am trying to keep up with the welding but I am a bit behind.
after striping and welding I straighten what I can and sand with 120 and 80 were the filler needs to go in,  then wipe with acid, then a damp rag, dry rag, damp rag, dry rag, metho rag, prepsol rag then a dry rag, then fill, then sand with 80 then 180 and again with the prepsol, then 2ketch primer, then 2k hs primer.
its pretty hard to get a area preped in time to prime it early afternoon and seems to end up more night time.
I cant believe I finally got etch primer on something without the rain hitting as soon as I mix the primer with the catylist.
I bought one of those prtable carports at k mart for $42 on clearance with 15% off on top wich I still havent got a chance to put up. I also got my new electric ariels with the 15% off, cool.
the car is now short again with the subframe back offand I am still trying sort out a back door, looks like I might have to cut cut 2 doors up and make a good wagon door, also still have to make the push buttons for the doors.

[yogie]

I hope I'm not hijacking the thread here but, in the picture here I've circled the box tubing that has been welded to the floor I would imagine that is for added chassis strength, is there any set rules or guidlines that I will have to follow if I do this and judging by the size it looks to be about 40X40mm box, any guidelines here would be a great help

[fccool59]

Yogie, There probably are some rules but silly me didn't suss it out first, I still need to add some bits with bolts but I want to fit everything up underneath first to see were I have room.
I noticed the other night that on streetneats site he has something that is like a cross between mine and a bought chassis kit, he had some good detailed pics too.
I think I used 50x50.

[Ed]

Hey Leon,

fFom my backyard engineering skills, if you have already welded the rails in place, the addition of bolts will not improve it's performance by much at all.

from the far away view of the pic it would appear you have probably welded in the rails and the shear forces present with this design would render this shortlived.

the circled area half way down at the rear floor, could probably do with the addition of some angle welded to the rail and then bolted through the floor using a plate (if it hasn't already).

this means your twisting forces would be spread across the face of the plate rather than just your rails twisitng against the floor and welds which would lead to failure around the welds in the floor itself.

where the rails meet the front floor x-member.  Make a C-channel that slips over the x member and rail join.  seam or stitch weld it in for ultimate strength.
once again if that is just  butt join it will just tear away under load over time.

your rails are resisiting the torsional twist of the body under load.

the side arms at the rear are good but I would slip a c channel over the join just to be sure, similarly with where it attaches to the sill I would plate around the area using 3mm plate.

personally I see no real gains in attaching to the sill, knowing how flimsy they actually are, it may lead to cracking of the paint or filler on the outer sill. (my 2c)

these are just my backyard engineering obs and designs I would implement if I were to do it again.  Hope you find these comments constructive.

other methods include setting the rails through the floor itself and fuly welding them in.. much more work but they sit higher.

Cheers

Ed

[fccool59]

I cut slots into the front rails and left toungues on the end of the front to back rails to slip into the slots before I welded it, at the rear the box rail goes inside the origonal rails, hopefully this way if the is any breakage nothing can drop.
I may even cut it out and put a chasis kit in down the track, looking at it, it obviously wont do much without adding to it, maybe it will stop the middle of the car from bouncing up and down a little.
My uncle insisted on me doing the rails this way all but that he also wanted me to extend the middle rails from the trans crossmember back further, I wanted to fit a chasis kit.
He only lasted a couple of weeks with helping out with the car as we both wanted to go completely different ways and nothing seemed to be getting done.
He frequently visits and cant help himself but to knock everything I am doing to it and how I am doing it as soon as he gets here.
In the beginning he wanted me to weld squares of steel to the back of welded pinholes wich he said would give it strength but I thought it would just create rust holes down the track but I still had to do it. He also comes down in the day and bags my work out to my wife, yesterday my wife stuck up for me and there was a argument wich nearly involved the police, man this car cuases some people to do strange stuff.
Any way he reckons I have been taking all the credit for the work on the car on this forum and havent given him any credit for the loan of the vices, ruler, work on thinking up the rails and a patch in the floor he made,    Well I will let yous know now he did that, aswell as cutting some big holes out of the car were I just wanted to weld some pinholes.
Although he hasn't done anything on it since about this time last year he has been coming down everyday with advice, its a real pain when you are waiting to grind or weld but you have to listen to someone going on for ages about how they think it should be done.
I gave up on his advice near the beginning as I find it easier to do things how I think they should be done and I dont see how someone who has never used a mig or built a kustom could have loads of advice.
maybe he is right and I am wrong but I just want to do it my way and if there is something I need to know I will ask someone who has succeeded with what I want to do.
Here are some of the tricks he tells me to do but I ignored wich he wasnt real happy about, you guys can try them but I dont want to experiment.

-bare metal being left over night outside should be rubbed with soap or wd to stop moisture.
-You should only strip your paint of with sandpaper on a cork block becuase anything else will damage the metal, rubber blocks are also no good.
-a peice of metal should be welded to the back of pinhole repairs for strength.
to sand the curve under the tail lights you should by a broom stick, cut it down and wrap sandpaper around it, other than that a tennis ball should be used.
-All panel sanding sould go only in one direction and the metal should the be polished with soapy steel wool.
-all chrome and glass should be cleaned with steel wool.
-Speed files are a waste of time and money as a cork block will do their job better.
-As many as possible drain holes should be drilled in the floor to allow water to drip out of the carpet.
-The best thing to wash your car with is steel wool and rust convertor (That scares the shit out of me but he does it)
- Enamel is the best paint to use as you can spray anything over it if you need to touch up and 2k is crap.

well they are the common peices of advice I get nearly daily and I feel like a bastard for ignoring his advice but I feel more comfortable with my methods, after yesterdays drama while I was at work it looks like I wont have to listen to his tips for a while and can get on with some work.
If anyone else feels they have done something on the car and I have taken the credit for it on the forum please pm me as I do try to put in everything everyone does in, even if it's a couple of strokes with a peice of sandpaper. what I havent put much up on the forum is stuff like all the times I have put the doors and subframe on and of by my self with the car up in the air.
Any way my uncle has been saying for the last six months I wouldnt be able to finnish it for the natoinals and he may be rite now but it would have been dam good to get it finnished in time.
any way, guess I better drag myself back to the car and find some quite work to do on it.

[sgo]

I think what you've done with the chassis will be fine.
If you continue the sections forward to the sub-frame you'll have the normal chassis kit anyway.
This forward section can be atached to the rear grey engine mounts which bolt to the y-frame.
As for your uncle, most of what he suggests sounds like crapp, but good luck with putting up with him.

[yogie]

 "Leon said" the circled area half way down at the rear floor, could probably do with the addition of some angle welded to the rail and then bolted through the floor using a plate (if it hasn't already).

this means your twisting forces would be spread across the face of the plate rather than just your rails twisitng against the floor and welds which would lead to failure around the welds in the floor itself.

where the rails meet the front floor x-member.  Make a C-channel that slips over the x member and rail join.  seam or stitch weld it in for ultimate strength.
once again if that is just  butt join it will just tear away under load over time.

your rails are resisiting the torsional twist of the body under load

Good points leon, but (please correct me if I'm wrong because I DONT really know) But if the car was running a six cyl, wouldnt the stresses be mininal regardless and there fore the need to use angle to bolt it to the floor for added strength, would be a bit of over kill?  And I just cant imagine the floor/chassis ripping it self apart due to stresses, put on it by a torgue of a 6cyl, Now I'm NO expert on chassis's and these are just my thoughts on it, I've made a lot of trailers over the years without a single one bending, only because I use 3mm box thickness   So keep the info comming guys, this a great help, because I'll be doing this soon enough.

[fccool59]

one of the reasons it isnt stuck on everywere is that I dont want it to rip out rust repairs or seatt braces. I was thinking of bolting through a spacer between the floor and the rails but on rails going across and bolted to the rails going back but I need to sort it out more as well as fit everything up under it.
if you are looking for ideas for your own car dont forget to suss out this car here.http://gallery.oldholden.com/Streetneat/EK-Van-Chop/?g2_page=6

[yogie]

did you notice in one of streetneats pic, how he scalloped out the rhs section on the curvy part of the floor, to bring it level and there fore bracing the seat bolt sections at the same time, he's a very clever chap, And lets face it not many guys would let everyone know how they does things, great stuff.

[Ed]

errmm  Leon...

didn't wanna tell you how to suck eggs but only put up some info because your post inferred you didn't follow any rules for the chassis kit.  apologies.  If you like I can come over everyday and supervise  .

PS I think your uncles advice is best left as that.. advice.

back to the build... show us more pics.

Cheers

Ed

[4hammers]

Hi Leon.
Tell Unkie to bugger off. What he has suggested sounds ALL bad to me. Soap or WD on bare metal? Soap is usually full of "Lanolin" & WD40 is MADE to penetrate metal. This is a really BAD thing to have penetrate the metal, especially if you intend to paint it. Oil & paint do not mix.
Cross hatch when rubbing back, as if you go one way, you will get lines & impressions that will show up in the paint. Enamel? Man, I think he may be getting too many enamel fumes.
Go your own way, Mate. He sounds as if he likes to think he knows what he is doing, but in actual fact, makes it up as he goes.

But, I am only a ex-Sydney painter (Used to do the Porches, Mercs & any other big $$ cars), so I suppose I am not really qualified to say. Hmmmm, I suppose that Glasurit I was using was crap.

Rob J

[fccool59]

 Yeah 4 hammers, he does seem to make it up as he goes along but half the time he thinks its right becuase some old guy up north who was panel beater told him so, when ever I tell him I heard different he says some old painter told him not to believe every thing I hear.
Thing is I dont, if I like the way someone did something I will ask how they did it but I dont need some one telling me I should do it different everytime I do something.
Then there is the story about my uncles paint job, imperfectoins and blisters came up everywere, he didnt know what was wrong but then he saw on the news that all the panel shops in the area went broke because a bad batch of paint had gone out, I am starting to doubt that story, or at least that it was the cause.

Dont worry Ed, I already was thinking simular stuff and wont be hooking into any bends to fast till I sort it out more, I had doubts about its design from the begining so I made it all kind of clip together before I welded it with slots and tongues, I would like to make it more like a chassis that would hold together without relying on the body.
I have been thinking of building a sedan on something like a crown chassis with a v8 that has enough power two run 2 AC compressors to keep a interior cool enough to run twin bubble tops instead of a roof but I am probably dreaming to much, building cars is a pain, lots of time and money and I cant wait to get my life back, car must be finnished first though before it becomes another one of those sad unfinnished project stories.
Ed, if you want to come over with your deck chair and megaphone thats fine, I just dont like taking advice from people all the time who have little to show for the results of  their advice.
As of last night I now have a pretty pro set up here, I have put up a portable carport, its almost like working in a garage or shop.

[4hammers]

Hi Leon.
If you want to F**k him right up, just when he is in the middle of a rant, telling you "This OLD GUY told me this & that". quickly Pop the question, "What was this old guy's name? Where did he work?". You watch him, he will stop, try & think & either make up some bullshite, or say, "That doesn't matter".
It is funny how many "Old Guys" are out there. All the self proclaimed legends, refer to the mythical "Old Guy" when quoting some babble. I am sure there are some which are truth, but you have to wonder.
I find, that most don't seem to be able to recall this OLD GUYS name, but can quote verbatim every single bit of advice they apparently gave as if it is gospel.

Like I said, you are doing a hell of a job, with the resources you have. Makes me feel like a slack shit, when I moan that I only have a double garage & no booth to paint in :-/

Keep it up mate, you have all the support & advice you need from the people here.

Rob J

[4hammers]

hahahahahaha.
Leon, I just had a great idea! If he is so taken with what "Old Guys" advice & what they have to say, then maybe get one of the "Old Timers" from this forum to come around to your joint next time & tell him to bugger off .
He seems to take their advice for gospel, so you may be rid of him once & for all!..

Norm D, you interested

Rob J

[fccool59]

I doubt he will be around for a while as he had quite a argument with my wife the other day over my work on the car, apparently when my wife didn't agree he started getting pretty pissed of and looking for things I had done to pick on and complained about not getting credit on this forum for lending his vices and ruler, he took his vices and junk he had sitting around here like his motorbike and made some threats, wow, this car can really have a major affect on people, he reckons I would be F$#ked now he has taken his 2 vices but I cant be F*&ked that easy.
Its funny, I was at work the hole time this went on, I wasnt really pissed of about it, more amused although after he left my wife was in tears, there are all kinds out there.
as for the old guy thing, I think he thinks the older you get the more you know about everything and that a younger person couldn't possibly know what he knows or better. If he disagrees with a old guy he just says they are silly old geriatrics and the old guys he knows up north know better so its hard to win, thats why I try to ignore the crap and stick to what I know as I have already proven to myself it works well.
Its funny how when you go to build a car people all of a sudden become a shit hot show car builder with all the secrets to do the best car, on there own car they were probably lucky to figure out how to change a radio.

[4hammers]

Hahaha.
Good on you, Leon. Shame he made the wife sad, not very nice at all
I for one would be happy to donate to the "Get FC-Cool a new ruler & a couple of Vices fund", just to get you rolling again. Go to the shops & send me the bill!! Gotta keep you rolling.

Family, Huh? My inlaws drive me insane!

Rob J

[fccool59]

well the vices were only small but not real cheap, the ruler also was a metal one dearer than plastic but not to dear, infact I spotted one at the shop down the road for $2
They were old 2nd hand vices wich seem to be better than affordable new ones, with the remaining work I only need a vice 3 ore 4 more times, one of those jobs is to flatten the pushrod guideplates, another is to make a peice of curved windlace retaining strip for the bottom of the front passender door jamb.
another couple of days and it would not have mattered that the vices were gone, any way, atleast I can now work on it without being constantly told I should be doing everything different.

[Ed]

hey Leon.

Try scouring the local cash convertors for cheap tools.  There are many people that hock things off like unused vices.

During my build as well, I didn't have a vice for large part of the time, I made do with G clamps on a cobbled together hardwood plank which sat about 30cm off the ground.. that was my "bench".  eventually the legs broke and it sat on a few old pavers.  my other bench was  2 stacks of tyres with a plank.. you can see these in my build up shots.

Things like concrete blocks are very handy to have around too as substitute benches.  They are great to bend steel rod in.

Once i got a decent welder I made a table with a 50cm square top.. it was such a mess and out of square because I didnt have any sash clamps to hold it and cut the steel with a 4 inch grinder... what was I thinking!?  this became the paint table.  able to hold drums of thinners, guns, and all sorts of knick knacks.

also my car sat under the shed verandah, rather than in the shed, so a garage was merely a set of tarps hung from the rafters..  the EH has now moved into this "garage".

I remember being embarrassed by the primitive conditions I had to work in..  my Dad refused to let me build racks and benches in the shed, because he was so worried I would just fill it with cars... to this day it is full of milk crates of car parts.. no racks you see!!

those panel stands you have were made from baby change tables picked up from Council clean ups, and modifed with a small length of chain bought at the hardware.

... i'm rambling now....

to build a car is to overcome adversity.  One of the most difficult things I have achieved in life was to build my car.  I once read, once you have built your first major project, everything is easy...

oh.. forget about re-claiming your life, by the time you are finsihed you will be too far gone!

Cheers

Ed