Oil system modifications

[FE_225]

Hi
Was wondering if anybody had a schematic showing a side on view of the oil galleries and gallery diamentions in a grey motor?
I'm mainly interested in the galleries around the oil pump and back end of block.
I've worked out a way to do a full flow, full pressure oil filtration setup and would like to know a few diamentions and locations (to be on the safe side) before I start drilling holes in the block.
Any diagrams or diamentions of the galleries would be greatly appreciated.
Tony
 

Anybody in the ACT area want to donate a worn out block? it's to be cut up. thanks

[ACE]

 ;)HEY TONY
HAVE YOU HAD A LOOK AT FE/FC WORKSHOP MANUAL
PAGE 133 (ENGINE LUBRICATION DIAGRAM)
HOPE THIS HELPS.
REGARDS ACE

[FE_225]

Thanks Ace
I saw that one. One of those, but side on, with  internal diamentions of the verticle and horizontal oil feed out of the pump would be perfect.

Tony

[chris stokes]

Tony,

What a coincidence, I have JUST fired up a grey motor with a full flow oil system that I have been pondering for a very long time.As you are probably aware there has been a by-pass filter ( mine is a AC ) available for many years, but as such, it takes around 1 hour of running before all the sump oil has been through the element. It does have a major advantage over the full flow type , in that it filters particles down to around 100 microns from the oil., compared to around 30 microns that the full flow will remove. You cannot convert the bypass type to a full flow type.

I am sure that this type of concept has been used before, but I only did this two weeks ago and ( seems ) to work well.

As I had just built a grey with new EVERYTHING , including quite a lot of balancing and sizing etc I wanted to make sure that the engine had full flow protection from the very first fire up. On advice from an Engineer from Ryco I also retained the bypass filter to remove the smaller particles as well. This made good sense and I had all the bits and new cartrigdes anyway.

With the Engine out of the car , crank up on the bench, remove the sump. You will notice the oil pump has a looped pipe from the "oil out" side connected  to the main gallery where oil is distributed throughout the motor. Remove the pipe and block the entry point to the gallery system with a brass bung ( about $2.00 from ENZED ) make sure you seal it well and do it up tight. turn the fitting on the oil pump approximately 90 degrees toward the sump wall, but leave it nice and loose at this stage. You will need to imagine this pipe now running out through the sump wall, directly adjacent to the oil pump outlet.Remember that the crank and rods may contact it if it is not set correctly. Carefully measure where the pipe would come out through the sump and allow 2 or 3 mm for gasket material, cut the pipe to allow enough to be protruding through the sump wall to connect the oil hose.This part is crucial as you NEED TO INSTALL THE SUMP AND THE PUMP TOGETHER WHEN IN IT IS ALL FINISHED. Drill a 7/16 (or near) hole through the sump wall and carefully push the pipe through to make the position right. You will need to remove the oil pump retainer bolt as well. This will also give you a visual guide that everything lines up ok before you weld the pipe into position.Check it all carefully , and put the whole thing on and off a few times to get everything just right.Now you need to scribe the pipe fully where it protudes from the sump. Also scribe the outline of the pipe on the sump wall and cut a small block of wood , then drill a tight fitting hole in the wood that takes the pipe, as when it is welded , it is in the right position. This can be cut off later. Check that the hole in the shaft of the pump is central in the hole where the retainer bolt goes. Remove the Sump and Pump and take it to a good welding shop and TIG weld it on both sides.

It is pretty straightfoward from here, as the oil returns into the gallery system where the sender switch is screwed in.

Make sure that all lines and fittings maintain the same hole as the original looped pipe to keep flow and pressure OK.

Check that you add extra oil to the sump to make up for the volume given to the filter and lines.

Something I also did was fit a oil pressure guage in the engine  bay ( temp as well for that matter ) You can mount this in a number of locations but the line should be connected at the block where the oil goes back in.

Check that it all works by taking out the plugs and crank the engine for 10 or 20 seconds. Put a rag under the spin on filter ( I havent mentioned this yet )base and undo the filter. Oil should seep out.Retighten the filter.

I bought a "spin on filter relocation kit " which had most of the hardware , but you dont need one of the castings. Repco would not sell what I need separately, but I reckon a bit of research would turn it up. Anyway the whole kit was $117 plus $12 for two screw on disposable filters.

I have not run this on the road yet, but the pressure seems fine and there is plenty of oil coming up to the rockers . There are no leaks or noises so I can only assume eveything is fine.

Good luck with it , I would love to hear some feedback if my description is a bit vague or simplified. The whole Oil filter project took nearly two "shed days" but I am convinced it is well worth it.

Ciao

Chris.

[FE_225]

Hi Chris

Your description was very clear, understood it completely.
The grey's oiling system has also been a bit of worry for me. It's easy to see where the term "sludge motors" come from, hey .
I'm doing a Norman supercharged, Appendix J  grey for my FE and it will need good oiling, hence the idea of the full flow filtration. Plus having the oil outside of the block is a chance to get rid of some excess heat too.
Your setup sounds very involved compared to the way I come up with. I'll try to explain. If you have your FE shop manual handy( page 133) it will make it easier to see what I'm getting at. Here it goes:

the oil feed from the pump is to be blocked just below where it meets the horizontal gallery. This means tapping the verticle gallery in the block (from the pump) and inserting a loctited grub screw at the very top just below the "tee".

Next step is to penetrate the block at 90 degrees midway between  the oil pressure switch and the sump rail. This will meet up with the verticle gallery and give you an oil feed to the outside of the block, or supply to the external filter.

Next bit is tricky:  Above the oil pressure switch you'll notice a grub screw. Using the bottom of that grub screw as  a guide, if you drill into the block, downwards at approx 48 degrees you miss the cam bearing and pick up the horizontal oil gallery just before the "tee" section. This hole now becomes the oil return back into the block. The oil pressure switch remains in the same postion.

Those 2 new holes, the outlet (the bottom hole) and the return ( top hole) are tapped the accept the  same "connector" that is screwed into the base of the block that oil delivery pipe screws into. Doing this allows the use of the same size steel pipe (as used in the sump) to connect to the external filter .

From those 2 new fittings it's just a matter of running steel pipe to and from the new oil filter. I was planning on using a modified AC bypass canister. Plan is to fit large inlet and outlet ports, the same fittings we just tapped into the side of the block. Also the centre post inside the canister has to have the original small supply hole at the bottom welded up, and a  new very large hole ground into it at the top, in line with the fitting on the side of the canister that returns the oil back to the block. Having this new hole up top of the post, and in line with the outlet will mean  the canister will remain full of oil after shut down.
I want to use the old style AC bypass unit as it is a period style restoration. Nothing made after, say late 60's, is to be used on the car. All old technology, none of this new fancy stuff.

How does that sound? Lost? Please let me know what you think.
Once i get my shed cleaned up a bit I'll experiment on an old donk I have (sorry Ed) and see what happens. My main concern is the new return gallery  clearing the cam bearing. I'm very confident it will work, just a matter of getting the measurements right first go.

Did you modify the bypass valve in the pump to compensate for any loss of pressure due to the filter and extra length of the oil circuit?

Let us know what think, any feed back is more than welcome.
Cheers

Tony  

"Long live the mighty Grey"

[Effie C]

Hi Tony
Drove past your place(I Think) Saturday week ago no sign of life,Must have been too early.
How did the full flow conversion work out as I have thought about this myself. Grey's need some sort of filtration to try to last longer. About to start rebuild on project FC's motor and looking for ideas on oil system.
I prefer not to re invent the wheel and hopefully gain from other peoples experience (and possible mistakes)
Thanks
John.M

[FE_225]

Hi John
I would of been there. It's the joint with the triple garage next to the empty paddock.
I had problems with my original idea, as above. The webbing in the block isn't thick enough. I did it but,I'm worried about losing strength in the webbing. I've now stolen Chris's idea and come out thru the side of the sump. That way is easier and safer. I'll go thru it with you when you drop over. It's a pretty simple worthwhile mod.
Talk soon
Cheers
Tony