exhaust note - twin pipes?

[Dave_EH]

G'day all,

I'm in the process of getting quotes for the exhaust system for my 179 red motor.

I was talked into using an X2 header over extractors, as it would last a little longer maybe, and the ability to remove the starter motor as opposed to extractors - i was assured the performance difference would be negligable - let me know if this is wrong!

I have enquired about running twin pipes all the way through (being collected somewhere in the middle in some sort of resonator), in order to get that dual tailpipe sound.

Some "experts" tell me it will sound a million dollars, while others say it will sound like a thong clapping along.

I've even been told both sides of the story from the same person in two different weeks!

Could anyone recommend a really nice sounding set up - muffler wise, pipe wise (under/over diff), where to run twin pipes to muffler/past muffler etc???

I dont need it to be too loud - just a nice V8 sounding throb.

The thread on the jack meyers headers says twin is good...

Regards
Dave

[The_Doctor]

hey dave,
            I fitted those same type cast 2 piece XU1 headers to my EK wagon running a 202..i made my own 2 x 2inch all the way thru going to separate sides from roughly the draglink back..it was up and over the diff using 2 stainless steel  turbo mufflers..fairly straight forward an' to me it sounded just great..still does actually!..stainless mufflers last eh!..nuthing like a V8 when you put your foot into it but at idle and low rpm one would be think otherwise   as for performance, the headers are on par with 90% of extractors made but twin 2 inch drains a little back pressure which resulted in a slight loss of power altho a very minor loss..this was compared to the 2inch single system that was previously fitted.

[The_Doctor]

one thing too..most straight thru or turbo mufflers are directional..meaning if it is reversed then it gives an entirely different sound altho usually louder as the gases flow over the perf or fluting and the sound doesnt get absorbed as it normally would..just a thought cause i reversed mine and it still didn't get the horrible clap happening till just before redline..sounded great on down changes too..god!..i have to get that thing fixed..i miss it!

[Blown_FC]

Dave....here's my thoughts...I'm no expert, just my thoughts as I see it.

To get a nice V8 sounding throb, you need to fit a V8.
( but I guess you know that already ) lol

The larger diametre pipe you use, the deeper or more hollow the sound is, but that's really only to a point, because if you go too silly, as "Idle Mixture" says...you'll lose back pressure, and without pressure there really is no nice sound to be had. So it's a fine line between the biggest diametre pipe you can get without being too silly.

Here's my real life example....

I had a 998cc ( that's less than 1 litre ) Mini Cooper, which ran a 3 into 1 ( Yes...3 ) straight through to a hot dog and out through a twin tip chrome end pipe.....SOUNDED SHIT !

The gasses got caught up inside the seperator of the twin tip and circled back onto itself making this shitty poppy high pitched sound...very off putting !

Took the tip off and replaced it with a single pipe extension.....PROBLEM SOLVED and WOW, what a difference.

The reason I'm telling you this, is that for a 1 litre motor it was running a 1 7/8" ( pretty much a 2 inch ) pipe and just 1 x 15 inch hotdog......and it went well and sounded great, so a 179 Red 6 cylinder using a 2" pipe should be no worries. In fact, I'm going to use a 2.5 inch pipe, but I'm running a 202.

Stainless pipes actually sound better ( from what I've been told ), as they are a stronger pipe and tend to throw the sound ( vibration ) out the back where you here it, rather than sending the sound / vibration through the thinner and weaker walls of a standard pipe, but like I say, just what I've been told.

On the other other end of the scale, I ran a 5L V8 Commodore (VN), which ran extractors, 2.5" pipe straight to an OFFSET muffler  and out the back......and I tell ya, I've heard nothing else like it, not even my subsequent VS model V8.

When I say offset...a standard muffler directs the gasses in a big s bend shape and if you looked down it, you'd see nothing but darkness....a HOTDOG is a straight through muffler with no bends at all, and if you looked down it, you'd see straight through it...where as my OFFSET muffler, as a straight through design, but the inlet pipe and the outlet pipe of the muffler were slightly offset from each other, meaning you could see through it, but only partially....this maintained a certain amount of back pressure, whilst giving you that hotdo sound.......like I say...nothign sweeter !

Good luck with whatever way you go, but my only real advice, is go to an exhaust dealer that you trust, and not one that changes his story depending on what week it is, just to make a sale.

Cheers

Mark

[Dave_EH]

Thanks Mark,

You've been a big help.  I won't be getting it done "tomorrow" as these things take time - i'm sure you know the feeling!

But from what you say, i think maybe 2inch and an offset, then 2 1/4inch to the back (or 2 1/4 then 2 1/2) may be the go.

I'll try and avoid that S bend before the gear box as well.

I can understand that twin pipes may sound funny as the firing order would be a bit odd!

I'd just like it to rumble a bit and sound old fashioned, and stay away from that throaty noise they get in all the little 4 cylinder things.

so far i've been told twin pipes sound:  "fantastic", "horrible", "...like a thong clapping under your foot", "...definitely superior" and my favourite..."different"

I'll let you know how it goes...fingers crossed!

Dave

[Blown_FC]

Dave...this is my personal choice for my 202 XU1 powered FC......

Pacemaker "Cone over Pipe" extractors which are a perfect fit for a red motor in a FC body with no modifications required....ask for model PH5004 from your nearest Pacemaker dealer.

This will go straight through to a LUKEY offset muffler, through a 2.5inch pipe from front to back.

That's it !

I know what you mean about the rumble, and although a 6 cylinder won;t RUMBLE as such.....have you ever heard an old holden 6 at full tilt ( with a decent system of course )....I think there is nothing more sweeter.

It's deep, raspy and ballsy....reminds me when my dad used to take me to country speedway races years ago !

Aaaahhh...I can't wait to get mine on the road.

I've bought my PH 5004 exxtractors, but thats it at this stage.
I was very impressed with how the Pacemakers just bolted up with no problems....cleared everything.

When I was enquiring, one guy told me that GENIE were the best, ( and only brand to suit and FC ) which made me just wet my pants.....and that I would still have to heat and bend and massage into place.

Now, my FC has a Red 202 on a HR front end, with Triple Carbs and a Trimatic gearbox.....now that is pretty well modified from standard, and the Pacemakers still just slotted in beautifully.

I recommend them to anyone with an FC and Red motor !

For your car, the 2 inch pipe all the way, and finishing off with a 2.25 would be pretty sweet I'd imagine !
You can always put a bigger end pipe or extension thingy on the tip if you want...shouldn't make any difference to the sound as it's right at the end of the system anyway...just as long as you don;t do what I did, and get a twin tip !

Cheers

Mark

[oldgmh]

Hey Mark - Blown FC,

What rpm torque convertor are you running behind the hot 202?   ... as I imagine a stock item wouldn't be suitable with a bit of a cam.

Earlee.

[Blown_FC]

Earlee.....I've had a Torque converter built specially to suit my set up.

They call it a 2100 Street Launcher.

Basically, I just gave them my old stockie converter, told them what motor I'm running.....They also did the Diff, so they new that Ratio.....they also rebuilt my Trimatic with Chevlar Belts, Corvette Pistons and basically rebuilt it to VL V8 Specs.....so they then went about re-building the converter to suit.

The question is, how it will all come together.   I spend a lot of time annoying people with heaps of questions, and as I said earlier....I only go to trades people I can trust or who actually take time out and show interest in my project.

I went to a place call Bunbury Automatics here in SW of WA......the owner must be at least 60, and from the old school, so he actually showed interest in my "OLD" set  up.

There are so many shops these days that jsut laugh at you when you say....202....or Trimatic....or Banjo.....these words don't exist in a lot of workshops these days, so it's worth taking the time out to find a shop that takes an interest....chances are the end job will be of better quality.

I had my Trimatic recond and Shift Kitted, Diff Rebuilt with a 3.36 LSD Centre and the Converter matched all for about $2300.

Not bullet proof by any means, but a hell of a lot stronger than stock !

Cheers

Mark

PS.....DAVE, sorry to ramble on....didn't mean to hijack your thread.......I get rather talky when people ask about my car.

[Dave_EH]

No worries mark - this is my first project, and being only a yougin' myself i'm always keen to learn.

Not many people seem to give much of a hoot as you said, they only want to make quick bucks out of blow off valves and ridiculously large shiny resonators...

thats why i've got the sticker on the back of my wagon "Let's see the Japs make a better one of these!"

Dave

[collecta]

Hey Dave,
check out the latest street machines utterly exhausted ask pyney at walkers /lukey exhaust, he tells a good story about twin system in an LX torana,running warm 202 or check out their website as it has some sounds to match different exhaust setups they offer, not all of them. the guy who asked a similar question to yourself was asked if he did the exhaust as Pyney described they would use the sound of his car for the web page, now that would be neat hearing your cars note on their web page.
cheers
Scott