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Author Topic: Gearbox - 1st Gear and cluster wanted  (Read 806 times)
muddy unicorn
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« on: June 25, 2021, 08:02:59 AM »
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Hi All,

My gearbox is being rebuilt at the moment and the builder has requested I find some parts.

I've been told I need a good 1st gear and a good cluster.
It is an early model crash box out of an FX.

If anybody can help that would make me very happy as I don't have any access to these parts myself.

Thanks heaps.

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ardiesse
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« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2021, 09:26:53 AM »
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Let me see what I can find at home.

You'd be well-advised to fit a double-row mainshaft bearing.  But if your gearbox is early production, your mainshaft won't have the circlip groove to accommodate the double-row bearing.  Instead, the trick is to get a tubular spacer machined, which slips over the mainshaft, and fits between the bearing inner race and the speedo drive gear.  The speedo drive gear circlip does double duty: it retains the main bearing as well as the speedo drive gear.

If you can't find anything here, start an account on FB-EK, and ask SunnyTim.  He might have the gearbox parts you need.

Rob
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muddy unicorn
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« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2021, 03:50:25 PM »
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Hi Rob,

I'm quite sure I have the early model gearbox that only has the single bearing.
My gearbox man has pulled it down and he did mention that it didn't have a shaft to suit the double bearing.
I will ask him about making up the sleeve like you suggested.
We are still looking for the 1st gear and cluster to replace them as they have unacceptable wear.
I guess I should be hunting for a main shaft to suit the double bearing also...
It would be a shame not to beef it up while it's all apart.
Let me know if you have any parts that could help me out.

Many thanks,
Ben.
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ardiesse
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« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2021, 04:20:25 PM »
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Ben,

The main shaft is best not replaced.

While at it - what type is the spigot bearing in the end of the crankshaft?  If it's the roller type, bin it, and install the later sintered bronze bush.

If your gearbox has the welded steel rear extension housing, I have a couple of NOS bushings to suit.

Rob
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muddy unicorn
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« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2021, 05:19:00 PM »
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Hi Rob,
You are correct, mine has the roller bearing type spigot bearing.
I don't have it here at home but have a new Exedy clutch for it... I'm presuming it has the spigot bush in there but will check when I get the chance.
Can't imagine it came with a roller bearing but who knows.
I've ordered a gearbox overhaul kit from Rare Spares today, although I'm not sure what it comes with but guess I'll find out when it arrives.
I've also sourced a gearbox that has been checked out and Ive been guaranteed it has a good cluster and first gear for me to use in my rebuild.
And I do, as you guessed, have the box with the welded extension on the rear.  Would the bushing you mentioned be included in my Rare Spares overhaul kit?
I'm sure their quality would not be as good as an NOS one so I'd be interested in one of yours.
I sent a message to my gearbox man regarding the information you sent about installing the sleeve and double row bearing on the main-shaft.  No word back yet but hopefully this is something he is familiar with doing. 
So many new things I'm learning about the drive-line..... I've just driven it for the past 28 years and never had to work on any drive-line components!!!!
They must have been well built.
Thank heaps,
Ben.
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ardiesse
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« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2021, 06:53:26 PM »
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Ben,

Clutch kits don't have the spigot bearing.  You need to get that separately.
Gearbox rebuild kits don't have the rear extension housing bush.

Get your gearbox guy to check the fit of the driveshaft yoke in the rear extension housing.  New yokes are still available from Hardy-Spicer (!).  I'll sell you the rear extension housing bush only if yours is too badly worn to use.

Harv has written the definitive crashbox rebuild guide, to be found on the FB-EK forum.  (If you're listening, maybe a link? . . . )  My policy with gearbox rebuilds is - if it sounds OK, it is OK.  Replace bearings (including the cluster shaft and needle rollers) only if inspection reveals damage, or if they're rough to turn.

The mainshaft bearing in my Humpy went noisy a few years back.  I replaced the bearing with a double-row one, and had the Department of Foreign Affairs at work make the spacer sleeve.  Everything else in the gearbox was fine to re-use, so I reused it all.

Rob
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muddy unicorn
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« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2021, 07:03:37 PM »
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I'd love to read his article on crash box rebuilds and I have tried to join the FB EK forum.
Unfortunately the only email I have is a "hotmail" one and that forum says it wont allow a "web based email account".
Not sure i can get around this issue.  I don't have a work email or anything like that.
Is it possible that it could be found on this forum?  Or another place on the internet?
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zulu
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« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2021, 07:47:58 PM »
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http://forum.fefcholden.club/index.php?action=post;quote=139968;topic=22894.0;num_replies=8;sesc=3862198f3f333bf4696a6780f64bd86c
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Stewy
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« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2021, 09:13:08 PM »
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http://www.scribd.com/doc/141577453/FB-EK-HOLDEN-THREE-SPEED-CRASHBOX-ENTHUSIASTS-GUIDE
See if this link works.
Thanks to Harv for his great research.
Cheers Stewy.  Cool
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Harv
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« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2021, 09:00:10 AM »
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My policy with gearbox rebuilds is - if it sounds OK, it is OK.  Replace bearings (including the cluster shaft and needle rollers) only if inspection reveals damage, or if they're rough to turn.

Agree.

What damage is your mechanic seeing in the first and reverse sliding gear, and the counter gear?

I’ve got both here, but no use sending them to you if they are worse or the same as what you’ve got.

Cheers,
Harv
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muddy unicorn
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« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2021, 10:21:46 PM »
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Hi Harv,

Thanks very much for your input.
I am by no means a gearbox expert....hence taking it to the most reputable person I could find here in Brisbane.
I will talk to him about all the input I receive here from people and hope we can come to a good result.
If you have any other points I should raise with him by all means let me know.
The feedback about sleeving the main-shaft for the double bearing and the fit of the driveshaft yolk seems like sound advice, as added by Rob. I will question him about his ability to do this and if he is unable to, or not interested in this, maybe I should look elsewhere for my rebuild? It is not something he has brought up with me as yet and now wonder if he is doing a thorough job.
Your advice about what damage he sees in the first and reverse sliding gear and counter gear will also be something I ask him about.
Another contact, but not the person with my gearbox, is a man from Caloundra at "top cog diff and gearbox" I have heard good things about him.
Do you have any other suggestions for people trusted to do the work in or near Brisbane?
I'd rather do this once than have poor workmanship let me down.

Kind Regards,
Ben.
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Harv
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« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2021, 06:12:12 PM »
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G’day Ben,

Did you get any answers from your gearbox bloke on the state of your parts?

Keen to help, but need to know how crook the existing bits are.

Cheers,
Harv
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muddy unicorn
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« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2021, 08:46:13 PM »
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Thanks Harv,
I'm stuck with a middle man in-between myself and the guy who's doing my gearbox.
It has been quite frustrating to say the least but there's nothing I can do about it unfortunately.
The man building the box is called "Darryl" and that's all I know.  He was sourced though my engine builder here in Brisbane, Garth Brown.
Garth ran Enogerra Cylinder Heads for many years and has recently retired and closed his business but is doing some limited work still.
I did get some feedback that Darryl checked my rear extension housing bushing and drive shaft slip yoke and has said they are fine to use.
I dropped my driveshaft down so it could be checked, and Garth has passed that information onto me....
I have asked to speak with Darryl but Garth has not been forthcoming with providing his number or enabling me to meet with him..... frustrating to say the least.
From all accounts Garth has assured me that "Darryl", if he really exists, is very good with these gearboxes.
I've provided him with a Rare Spares gearbox overhaul kit, and paid $400 for a second hand box that comes with a "guaranteed good 1st gear and cluster".
Again more mysteries as I have not seen this "guaranteed box" yet, but was sourced by Garth.
I was shown the damage on my 1st and cluster so that gives me some reassurance that we are on the right path.
So I guess now I just wait and hope that all comes back in good working order.
I really should have looked into this more before I started the process but life lessons are learnt as you go along.
Thanks for your offer but for now I'm in too deep to pull out, and believe its being put back together as I type.
I will however keep the wise people her in mind next adventure.
Thanks for your support and advice Harv, it's great to have some helpful people around with these adventures.
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Errol62
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« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2021, 09:56:08 AM »
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I paid $380 for an FJ box recently. Unknown condition other than taking off cover and inspecting the gears. Turns out 2-3 synchro is shot. Jumps out of 3rd at speed, which may be an engine mount or linkage issue, but otherwise nice and quiet. I was in no position to argue price at the time but Ozwreck at Newcastle quoted $275.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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weddo
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« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2021, 09:10:59 PM »
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My two bobs worth Muddy,
I'm not a mechanic by any means but I do my own gearbox rebuilds for my Group Nb FC race car. A good quality single rear race is more than ample for a grey gearbox. If you are going to push it extremely hard the spacer between rear race and speedo drive is ok but not a necessity as you wont eliminate shaft movement. I make a  spacer between the rear race and recessed into an alloy rear housing to provide pre-load, but I am hard on gear boxes and usually weld the circlips in the syncro assembly and line bore the box and use an EH cluster gear and shaft.
If you have a reasonably good set of gears and good syncro drum and syncro rings, replaced front and rear bearings, no wear between main shaft and input shaft it will last you another twenty five years as a daily driver. I will see if I can attach a photo of the spacer it allows access to speedo drive and selector shaft.
regards
Weddo



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muddy unicorn
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« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2021, 10:02:40 PM »
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Thanks for the feedback on gear boxes guys...
I've driven this box for the last 25 years and had no issues with it so was not expecting too much to be wrong.
Racing is not what happens in this old humpy... but I do drive it a lot and try to be nice when shifting.
My main reason for giving it a rebuild was in those 25 years it's never been done and the new motor will no doubt put out a lot more HP than stock.
Figured it make sure it was all in good working order.
Seems like I paid about the right rate too if people are paying a little less but then having some damage in areas.
Next project to tackle is the diff.... I'll be looking for some advice around that soon so keep an eye out.
I'm pretty sure it has an EH diff because it has shackles around the rear uni.....I've never pulled it out so will know so enough, I hope its a 3.55
It's great to have people give ideas and insights.
Thanks everybody for your help and advice, much appreciated.
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ardiesse
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« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2021, 12:24:44 PM »
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Ben,

You don't need to pull the diff out to determine its ratio.  Degrease the differential pinion flange.  3.55 diffs have a copper-coloured flange with 3.55 stamped on it, 3.36s are natural finish with 3.36 stamped on.

Rob
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muddy unicorn
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« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2021, 03:30:33 PM »
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excellent thanks Rob....
I'm picking up my finished gearbox tomorrow and have been told he was "very happy with it"
Thanks for your advice and help with this.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2021, 03:37:50 PM by muddy unicorn » Logged
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