FE brakes

[Gropedawg57]

Hey all, I'm going to getting the brakes working now.. every thing on this car is original still..
I'm happy to replace the cylinders and hoses.

I would like to find out what the best sequence I should follow for this process is?
Any help would be great 👍🏻
Thanks, Adam


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[pbh0069]

Hi Adam

mine were the same ( all original ) you will need new lines ( about $35.00 each ), I took all my wheel cylinders down to the brake shop and had them rebuilt . from memory about $ 70.00 each.

cheers Phil.

[ardiesse]

Adam,

If there are several major areas requiring work on your car before you get it back on the road, do the brakes last.
Too many times I've seen the sun come up through . . .

Sorry, where was I?

Too many times I've seen someone do up the brakes on a project car, and then over the years it takes to finish the work, the brakes seize up, and then you have to overhaul the brakes again.  I speak from personal experience here.

I would suggest you get your existing master and wheel cylinders stainless-steel sleeved, rather than buy new ones.  Stainless-sleeved cylinders are way less prone to seizing than cast-iron cylinders, and in fact can cope with a couple of years idle in the garage while you fix the rest of the car up.  I'd recommend new hoses too.

Flush the pipes out with metho and compressed air when you've taken the cylinders and hoses off.

If your brake shoes still have plenty of lining left and the linings aren't fluid-soaked, I'd only suggest you get your drums machined if they're heavily rusted inside or deeply scored.  I haven't had much luck with machined drums - they never ran true afterwards.

Oh, and check the rear backing plates for the signs of diff oil leaking out into the rear brakes.

Some general "freeing up of stuck parts" advice next.

If you still have the original tin-can master cylinder reservoir, resist the temptation to use multi-grips to unscrew the lid, and the reservoir itself.  If you can't unscrew the lid by hand, get a propane or MAP gas torch, and with low flame gently heat the lid until it smokes and begins to darken.  Then, wearing thick leather gloves, unscrew the lid.  Keep the heat away from the reservoir as much as you can, or else you'll melt the solder out from the seams.

The best way I've found to unscrew the reservoir from the master cylinder is to preheat the oven to 160 C, and put the entire cylinder in the oven for a quarter-hour.  Then put the cylinder in a vice, and undo the reservoir, wearing thick leather gloves.
Warning: Only if the Powers That Be give permission.
Warning: only if the reservoir and cylinder have had all the fluid cleaned out.

The adjusters always rust onto the wheel cylinders.  If you try to adjust the brakes, you'll break the tabs on the adjusters.  Pull the drums off instead.  If the brakes are seized, heat the drums up with a MAP gas torch.  The heat will expand the drum to the point where the brake will start to free up (lots of heat and lots of patience).

Back to the adjusters.  When you have got the drums off, take the shoes off.  If the adjusters come off, good.  If they don't, put a screwdriver in the notch where the brake shoe goes and try to turn the adjusting screw.  If it's seized, get into the adjuster with a flame, and it will free up.  Finally, gently tap the adjuster off the wheel cylinder once the adjusting screw has freed up.

Don't use brute force on the bleed nipples if they're stuck, instead use heat.

Handbrake:  Unhook the lever from the gearbox crossmember under the car.  Clean all the grease and crud off the cable, and saturate it in WD-40.  Pull the cable through from the rear brakes, a couple of feet on each side.  Saturate the cable with WD-40, and wipe clean with a rag.  Pull the cable back and forth several times, cleaning as you go, until it runs freely in its outer.  If the cable's frayed, replace it.

(To adjust the handbrake, there's a series of steps which have to be followed in the right sequence.  Probably best to wait until you're ready to assemble the rear brakes, and then we can take you through the procedure.)

Rob

[Gropedawg57]

This is perfect, thanks very much Rob and Phil!


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[RET]

As always, Rob, I never fail to be impressed with the detail and thought that goes into your Tech topic posts.

And I think I can say with confidence that I can't recall another post in the 20 years this forum has been going where the solution to almost every issue seems to be to set fire to it.

[ardiesse]

Richard,

Bit of a worry, isn't it?  Discovered most of what I know about freeing up brakes the hard way, on Col's black Standard, and more so on an old FJ front suspension I was pulling apart.

Adam,

While I'm replying to the thread, here's another thought:

When you're disassembling the brakes, don't try to unhook the brake shoe retractor springs.  You'll just get injured.
Instead, grab the brake shoes at the bottom, pull or lever them out from the anchor, and let the ends cross over to relax the retractor spring.

Assembly is the reverse: put the retractor spring in place on the shoes, cross the shoes over at the bottom, engage the shoes into the adjusters at the top, swing the shoes out at the bottom and slip them over the anchor.  Install the hold-down pins and springs, and adjust the brakes.

Rob

[Not Happy Jan]

great Rob!!!!

[Gropedawg57]

Adam,

While I'm replying to the thread, here's another thought:

When you're disassembling the brakes, don't try to unhook the brake shoe retractor springs.  You'll just get injured.
Instead, grab the brake shoes at the bottom, pull or lever them out from the anchor, and let the ends cross over to relax the retractor spring.

Assembly is the reverse: put the retractor spring in place on the shoes, cross the shoes over at the bottom, engage the shoes into the adjusters at the top, swing the shoes out at the bottom and slip them over the anchor.  Install the hold-down pins and springs, and adjust the brakes.

Rob

Thanks Rob, I did do that and have pulled apart the front two wheels, I just pulled the brakes off as a whole and disconnected from the spring off the car.
The wheel cylinders and master cylinder are off and ready to go to a brake repairer when I have every thing off.

I haven't pulled the rears off yet, as I'm a bit stumped as to how I pull these middle covers off?

 



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[graham_fuller]

The middle covers stay in place. Just tap the Brake drum a little with a hammer and it will loosen enough to pull off.
Cheers,
Graham

[mcl1959]

That's the centre of the axle. It stays there.
the drum will be fairly tight to get off because rust over the years adheres it to the axle and the brake shoes inside get bonded to the drum
Spray some penetrate around the axle and around the studs.
Try and back off the brakes using the adjuster from the rear.
Tap around the circumference of the drum with a heavy hammer to loosen things up.
The drum should ease off.
Over the years I have come across some severely stubborn drums to get off.
I hope yours are not one of them.

Ken

[ardiesse]

Adam,

Follow Ken's advice about WD-40 around the hub and studs.  If you have a rubber mallet, give the drums a gentle hit and see whether they free up.
Try levering the drums off with a screwdriver between the drum and the backing plate after the WD-40 treatment, but beware - the backing plate bends easily.
To see how seized-up the rear brakes are, try turning the drum.  If you can turn the drum by hand, it'll be fairly easy to remove.
If the drum doesn't turn, put the wheel on and try turning the wheel. (Handbrake disconnected, of course!)
If you can make the wheel turn without busting your guts (but you can't make the drum turn without the wheel), then I think you'll have to heat the drum up until it's good and hot, then put the wheel back on.  If you can make it turn, keep going, and it'll start to free up.

Best of luck,

Rob

[Gropedawg57]

Thankyou very much for the advice fellas, it helped a lot. The left side needed most of your tips given, and the right came off by hand right away. Everything under this drum has been soaked, so that's where all the fluid in the brake lines had gone because from removing the master cylinder and wheel cylinders there had been nothing in the line leak out.



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[pbh0069]

Great work ADAM , should be ready for our next cruise 

[Errol62]

Ah the joys of removing old drums. You should try the old vee dubs. I'll go and wash my mouth out now before I'm told.


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[ardiesse]

Adam,

Consider yourself fortunate that you're not working on an FX or FJ in the drum-removal department . . .
But - bloody hell.  Original riveted linings.  Score 1 for prehistoric authenticity.
And there's no sign of diff oil leaking out into your brakes.
And considering that the drums aren't rusted inside I'd be really reluctant to get them machined.  Are they scored at all?  It doesn't look like it.

Rob

[Gropedawg57]

Hey Rob, I forgot to check today but by memory I think they are pretty good. Got distracted by getting the beast to life!!


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[Errol62]

My theory is that the shoes will bed in to any little grooves in the drums. Never had a set machined in 40+ years driving drum braked Holdens and Toyotas.


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[Gropedawg57]

Update:
So I had everything pulled apart and dropped off at Glenelg South brakes today, after a bit of a chat and getting my head around a bit more of the same advice given to me as above ^^^ I'm getting everything serviced anyway, but I won't put any brake fluid in the line or pressurize until I'm nearly ready to begin driving the FE again. At least that way everything is back in place as it should be, and I'm not going to lose anything in the process. And obviously, then the wheel cylinders won't seize up while it's sitting there waiting for other things.. and when they do seize up when I pull the car apart to paint I only need to replace the cups 👍🏻

(I plan to get the FE on the road again and drive around for a while before I pull apart for focusing on paint)


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