Stripped panels waiting for paint

[graham_fuller]

Hi guys what do you do with your stripped panels while your waiting to paint them? Do you need to paint them immediately?
Cheers,
Graham

[fcwrangler]

You need to treat them with metal prep to stop rust and then prime them. I used wattle super etch when I stripped the sedan 3 years ago and all is still good. This was recommended by the paint supplier as it is guaranteed for 12 months in the weather by the makers.
Jim

[fe350chev]

You need to prime them straight away after blasting, not leaving them too long in normal etch primer and probably a better way to go if they will sit for a while is with epoxy 2k primer. It depends on the paint system you will use later as some primers aren't compatible with some topcoats. I'm in a real dry climate and I was surprised how long it took a blasted section that I left bare to rust. With normal etch primer, it can be drawing in moisture without you noticing the rust. I did a 1 year experiment cos I kept getting told different things and 2k epoxy was definitely ok to leave for a while but normal 1k etch had blackish spots underneath. I prefer to lightly sand some bits that were very dirty and not clean prior to blasting cos if you look at it closely you can sometimes see fine tiny balls of crap blasted into the metal. It should also be rubbed with wax and grease remover. You won't get consensus on this but many ppl put the epoxy primer straight onto bare blasted metal but etch primer is supposed to condition the metal and contains extra agents. Probably best to ask ppl like Frankie J who have been in the restoration business for many years and actually has cars done over 20 years ago and sees them years later with no surface rust. In short, if you know the paint system you will use to the end, might be best to read the info sheets. I'd like to do another experiment myself using that new clear sealer base to see how that goes. Also, I think some ppl blame paints when they get rust return (when done correctly) when in fact it may have been that the spray setup itself allowed moisture onto the panel. So you need water traps and filters etc.

[GMHwagoon]

 
  can someone put up the basic steps for  2pk paint
                                                             acrylic paint
                   
     from bare metal  to top coat   
     and at what stage to use body filler


       thanks greg 

[fe350chev]

It can be confusing with 2k because there are 2 different systems being widely used but both are very simple.

Most paint shops just spray 2k epoxy primer straight onto bare metal. It has good enough adhesion to do this. Then there are a few different 2k paint systems. That's why people won't just give you a straight answer because it depends on the basecoat you buy (colour coat). There's a single coat system

Ie, 1, epoxy 2k primer then a one shoot mix that has hardner and clear within that actual paint. This is all you do.

2, there is the second system that requires a clear coat to be sprayed onto a flat base coat to react with the basecoat, to give you your final gloss finish. With this one (which I believe is most popular), the base coat will dry flat if you were to let it completely dry. This system is in my opinion better for your use if doing yourself because you can put base coat on and if your happy with what you see there and then, you just follow the instruction on your paint system (you wait x amount of time for the paint to tac or flash off, like a nearly dry state. This depends on factors like humidity, temp etc), then if your happy you can spray your 2k clear straight on (this mix has the dangerous hardner in it). If you accidentally got an imperfection or run using this type, you can stop at the base coat stage and let it completely dry, resand it and respray the panel with base coat again, then do your final clear coat (with activator hardener), then your done.

A single 2k one shot colour coat might be useful on areas that you want high gloss but not critical like fuel tanks or more obscure parts.

So with the 2k in short it goes like this

2k primer (many put straight on bare metal but you can use a 1k etch, that's the bit that you won't get consensus on). Then spray on the basecoats (depends on how many coats you choose) then you do your clear coat with the hardner  activator in it and your done.

As I said, there are variations with different systems but 2k is by far the easiest system but you need a booth to spray it safely and the best possible multi stage facemask.

Dads been a sprayer for 50 years. He reckons current acrylic paints aren't like they used to be so he told me not to use them.

Your question about filler is also interesting. Most filler companies say apply to bare metal still but most good restorers agree to put it over the 2k primer sealer. That's because it's not porous and many now accept fillers. I prefer to do mine that way because 1k primers don't usually specify compatibility with fillers like 2k ones do on the tech sheets.

The guy at the start of this video explains the 2 current 2k systems.

I'm not familiar with current acrylic systems cos I don't know anyone that still uses acrylic but I hope I've explained the 2k process as easy as possible for you.

Some ppl vary from these usual methods though. Some ppl get their hardner mixed up with thinners I think. If the paint needs thinning then you will need to use the thinner designed for your paint you buy too. You don't use general thinner in 2k paints.

I'm sure others might have some variances. My advice to you if you get your bits blasted is to be sure your blaster gives you the correct info as to what primer they are using when blasting parts because you need to be thinking ahead as to your paint system. The beauty if epoxy 2k primer is that it will accept almost any base coat paint from any system whereas 1k won't. That's why ppl are favouring it. It's also a moisture barrier whereas 1k primers are generally not.

[fe350chev]

This guy seems quite good at explaining the 2 types of current 2k systems. https://youtu.be/1YToi5WS1-Q

[fe350chev]

Some more useful info about applying the prep.

Common interchangeable lingo is reducer which is thinner. Hardener/activator which goes in the clear. And colour is called base coat. Here's some tins for you. I'm using these to test colours for the build on certain areas. But I'll be using a better brand for final painting. Here's some pics of the tins for you for the complet 2k system. You will also need a mixing ratio cup to make it easy to mix.

I hope this is of some help. It's cold and hailing here so I'm stuck inside

[graham_fuller]

Thanks for all the info it's very interesting. Think i  will use the 2 pak epoxy etch primer and then the acrylic that bought a few years ago.
Cheers,
Graham

[fe350chev]

You can't go wrong with that as a base to start with. There's lots of opinions about paints etc. I hope your job turns out really good. Any paint will look good on the mighty fe and fc lol.

[Frankiej]

Wow Deano amazing knowledge you have and mostly very good info, the clear over base coat you talked about is in fact a blending clear and that's used for blending metallics, it's used just before your last coat of colour and can be a bit tricky if you don't know what's your doing.
When it comes to fillers I generally like to rough up the area to be filled with a 24 grit on a disc sander then fill to the metal, I get
 The shape close then 2k prime it and follow up with my finishing filler work over the top of the primer, bare metal should be etched if your not doing much with it straight away because of the fact you spoke about being porous and whether conditions come into it as well, and very important to use wax and grease remover every time you paint.
There are way to many factors to take into account and can be very daunting for the home handyman come painter because of all the factors that come into play.
I personally wouldn't use acrylic paint anymore even though I done my apprenticeship on that system, the 2pac paints are brilliant these days and even for doing them in your shed at home when conditions are suitable, acrylic paint needs lots of drying time to make it successful because it uses evaporation to dry rather than chemical reactions, the acrylic requires around 4 weeks of drying time before being buffed then the same time again before you polish as the polish will seal the surface and the thinners won't escape, this is the downfall on most acrylic paint jobs as they are not given the correct drying time, and keep in mind that every part of the acrylic needs to be buffed to give it a shine, were 2pac has a shine of the gun, so in the shed you will find that the tops of the car will be the only areas that need buffing due to dust settling, and if the sides come up well then no need to buff as it has a gloss already.
I hope some of this stuff helps as I have been in the trade now for 37 years and I am happy to give advise as I know we all can't afford to just pay the trady to make our dream a reality.
Cheers Frankiej.

[fe350chev]

Thanks Frankie. There's definitely more than 1 way to skin a cat. I enjoy coming on here looking at the different ways of doing things and always learning. I have found that practicing on items over the years, even small non auto ones, is good when you can for the non professional to build confidence. If you go on YouTube and type in "the gunman paint", the guy from WA uses a go pro and narrates his jobs and shows feathering and blending really well. It's worth a look Frankie and Graham if your ever bored.

[fe350chev]

https://youtu.be/yH9QRSTeRN4

This will get you on the right track to his vids. I like how he goes into nitty gritty of blending, taping etc. This particular video shows both 1k and 2k quickly. But some of his vids on guns are good for those interested in more info.

[Frankiej]

Yeah Deano gunman is very handy I have him in my Facebook page been watching his stuff for a while now and I am also one of his critics, but he takes it well lol.