Info wanted... anyone got an unmolested HZ, WB, LX,UC or VB?

[Harv]

I'm still mucking around with the history of the Holden BX Stromberg carby. In addition to the 23-XXX numbers stamped on the air horn, the initial BX carbs (1976) had these numbers stamped into them:
MV 2850cc manual engines
AV 2850cc automatic engines
MX 3300cc manual high compression engines (early 1976)
MA 3300cc manual high compression engines (late 1976)
AX 3300cc automatic high compression engines
MB 3300cc manual low compression engines
AB 3300cc automatic low compression engines
MY 3300cc manual cab chassis
AY 3300cc automatic cab chassis

I cannot find any stamping info though for those BX carbs produced after 1976... the workshop manuals are silent on these stampings. I don't know if the stamps were continued through to the VB Commodore, or dropped after 1976. If anyone has a HZ, WB, late LX, UC or VB Commodore, would they mind checking the float bowl for those stampings please? Need both the stamping and the 23-XXX number to confirm please.

Cheers,
Harv (deputy apprentice Stromberg fiddler).

[fe350chev]

Ok. I'll see what I can find in my travels.

[fe350chev]

I took some pics from a Hz one at a local pre 79 car wreckers that just opened. I have a sonic for the warm grey and I was thinking of using one of these or the falcon Weber. Here's one I took a photo of for you when I was looking this morning. It's off a Hz wagon. I got no idea what stampings your after but this is what was on it.

[fe350chev]

I'm still not sure what you want in terms of info but the model is BXUV-2 BXV-2

http://www.allpartsautomotive.com.au/online-store/GMH/GMHHZ01080125130601.HTM

23-3099 HX/LX 253 manual
23-3100    LX-UC 173 AUTO
23-3101    LX-UC 173 MAN
23-3102    HX-LX 202 AUTO
23-3103    HX-LX 202 MAN
23-3105    HX-Z 202 AUTO UTE/VAN
23-3106    HX-Z 202 MAN EXCH UTE
23-3107    HX-Z-LX 202 MAN
23-3109    HX-Z 202 MANUAL

are the cars that had the 31,0 series carb.

The vb stampings should be

23-3118    VB 173 MAN
23-3120    VB 202 MAN

Eg, 31,18 down bottom

There's 3 fuel miser kits but the ones for the adr carb are the ones with 3 screw.

I think I said before about these Stampings above were probably on the same carby that the cortina 200 cid used. But with their own numbers. Their numbers are listed in catalogues. The only numbers are the ones above that are on the actual carbs. See on the small bit facing front there's nothing on there. Is that the one you mean or that more obscure number. A pic from another carb of the exact spot on the carb would help me confirm for you whether it has been deleted after 76. But I had a good look and couldn't find another number. This is sort of what you found on another site in December.

[Harv]

Thanks Deano.

The carbs I am after are definitely not the BXUV-2 or BXV-2 Strombergs, but the later BX that was used by GMH between 1976 and 1979. These were fitted to the later 1976-1979 LX and UC Toranas 173ci six cylinder engines (23-3100 and 23-3101), later Holden HX, HZ and LX and UC Torana 202ci six cylinder engines (23-3102, 23-3103, 23-3105, 23-3106, 23-3109, 23-3110,  23-3107, 23-3114, 23-3115 and 23-3117) and VB Commodores (23-3119, 23-3119, 23-3120 and 23-3121).

I know that when GMH started using the BX in 1976 that it stamped the front face of the float chambers, the same way it had been doing on it's carburettors since the EH Holden. I havn't got a copy with me, but it is shown clearly in the EJ/EH Workshop Manual. The stampings were GMH specific, not Ford. Examples of earlier stampings are:
HR and HK Holden   
M 161ci manual transmission
No stamping 161ci automatic transmission
HPM 186ci manual transmission
HP 186ci automatic transmission
HQ Holden
BM 173ci manual transmission
BA 173ci automatic transmission
CM 202ci manual transmission
CA 202ci automatic transmission
HJ Holden (1975 evaporative carburettors)   
AS 173ci automatic transmission
MS 173ci manual transmission
AT 202ci automatic transmission
MT 202ci manual transmission
EH and HD Holdens
149 149ci engines
179 179ci engines
LH Torana
AO 173ci automatic engines
MO 173ci manual engines
AP 202ci automatic engines
MP 202ci manual engines

The carb in your photo is a BX. If it is an original HZ BX, then it should have numbers stamped into the float bowl of 23-3102, 23-3103, 23-3105, 23-3106, 23-3109, 23-3110,  23-3107, 23-3114, 23-3115 or 23-3117. It might (I suspect) have MV, AV, MX, MA, AX, MB, AB, MY or AY stamped into the front of the float bowl. Hard to see either number though without scraping off the dirt.

Cheers,
Harv

[fe350chev]

So just to clarify, Wouldn't the vb stamping be the one I put above? Or are you saying this one is completely different as in this holdenpedia one? http://holdenpaedia.oldholden.com/File:Stromberg_Identification_of_outlets.jpg

http://holdenpaedia.oldholden.com/Stromberg_carby

Are you interested in the other number that's a prick to see, if I find one that's got different 23-#### number than the ones listed, or would that not matter? Do you get what I mean. AND are you thinking it's just a variant of one of these ones that I put the pic up, as in that model or do you think it's a different model?

23-3119 is vb. So in short, if I see a vb you want to know if it's blank or not (where the one on the Hz above is stamped) or on the thin bit at top of float and you also wanna know if it has the 2 letter designation.

Couldn't you ring this mob who rebuild them and ask them to email you the spec sheet or manual they use and ask them about the stampings? I'm not aware of another carby on them other than this?

[Harv]

So just to clarify, Wouldn't the vb stamping be the one I put above?

The one picutured in your post above is supposed to be off a HZ. The first of the three photos you posted shows the front, vertical face of the float bowl. This is where the stamp should be. I can't see it, but I can't see the 23-XXX number either as the carb is dirty.

Or are you saying this one is completely different as in this holdenpedia one? http://holdenpaedia.oldholden.com/File:Stromberg_Identification_of_outlets.jpg

Could be the same... the article above shows a BX, but doen't say what year/model it came from.

Are you interested in the other number that's a prick to see, if I find one that's got different 23-#### number than the ones listed, or would that not matter? Do you get what I mean. AND are you thinking it's just a variant of one of these ones that I put the pic up, as in that model or do you think it's a different model?

What I am after is for someone to take a look at the front float bowl face of a carb stamped 23-3100, 23-3101, 23-3102, 23-3103, 23-3105, 23-3106, 23-3109, 23-3110, 23-3107, 23-3114, 23-3115, 23-3117, 23-3119, 23-3119, 23-3120 or 23-3121.

23-3119 is vb. So in short, if I see a vb you want to know if it's blank or not (where the one on the Hz above is stamped) or on the thin bit at top of float and you also wanna know if it has the 2 letter designation.

Yes please - I am looking for what is stamped on the float chamber of any VB, together with the 23-XXX number (3119, 23-3119, 23-3120 or 23-3121) to confirm it is indeed a VB carb.

Couldn't you ring this mob who rebuild them and ask them to email you the spec sheet or manual they use and ask them about the stampings? I'm not aware of another carby on them other than this?

I've checked all the workshop manuals, which make no mention of the stampings. I don't have too much faith in many of the carb rebuild companies - quite often they rebuild from a pile of parts, with some parts (eg the float bowl) being swapped from one carb to another. I'd be more confident in an unmolested carb.

Cheers,
Harv

[fe350chev]

The one above in the second link show the front face and it does say it's a vb but it appears to be blank but bit hard to see. Looks same as the one above and that definitely has no stamping on the front (in real life)  but I am aware it's not the vb one exactly like you are confirming. But not sure if u missed the pic down bottom.



I'm not sure what you are viewing it on but the only numbers on the original looking Hz was were the usual bendix one and if you zoom in the pic (my photo), I can see the number clearly. It still fits the models your after but for a post 1976 torana. There's no number on the front face cos I checked so I'm assuming any after this would only be stamped adjacent the engine on the engine side. So I think all I need to find is an original vb now and if that doesn't have a number on the front, but has one on the side like the one I saw (a post 1976 numbered carb), then I think that's your answer. I will try take a good lot of pics for you if I find one. I just needed to break it down cos the question wasnt quite clear what exactly you are trying to find but I understand now. So can you tell me if it's just called a bx carby or does it have a model? Cos the 32-xxx is the Part number not the model like bv etc.

[fe350chev]

Here's one for sale pulled off a hz. Has stamps on side and front and checks out at a 77 plus. I'll go back and check some more of the same number on more cars cos there were other cars. That should be enough evidence of hz Stampings. I know the numbers and exactly what I'm looking for, so I'll keep trying to find a vb too that's unmolested. I think there would be quite a few Hz cars with torana replacement carbs but the codes tell u anyway what it's from. I'm looking around at carbs to put on an aftermarket manifold so it's no trouble.

[fe350chev]

Ok, I definitely have an unmolested vb 202 for red motor number carb you ; 23-3120 carb.

I cross referenced it with another unmolested bog stock old 202 Ute. Same setup and same number as the one next to it, Hz 23 - 3109 with side stamp 23-77144

He also had a lx torana manifold from a 173 red, post 77, the number on that carb is 23-3101. It had same 23-77144 number as the 2 Hz unmolested cars on the side in a circle. Both Ute workhorses so completely original.  

The vb had a stamping on the rear of the carby facing back of car (I don't know what that side is called I'll call it that to keep it clear).

I was lucky cos their "carby expert" guy was there abd he began talking to me about what jets work best and he said it doesn't matter which one I use bla bla cos I explained I'm wanting the option of testing the grey with a falcon Weber and a bx. So I could get more info. It's very hard to get any other numbers from caked on Shitty carbs of bog stock farm cars like these.

So I suppose you will want the numbers off the vb that are next to front number on the thin part and cross reference it with all 3? In your travels harv, has anyone said that any of these are better to use on older cars than one another? Any info would be good. Mainly I'm thinking little choke differences etc.

If I get one I'll get the torana one cos it's rarer if there's no advantage with the others.

[Harv]

Yes please - would love to see any markings on either of the 23-3120, 23-3109 and 23-3101.

These carbs are near identical, though have some subtleties:
a) The venturi is the same in each (31.0mm) as is the power valve (0.020"/0.051").
b) The 23-3120 has a larger main metering jet (340cc) compared to the 23-3109 and 23-3101 (330cc). The smaller jet will suit the grey better.
c) The 23-3120 has a smaller idle tube (#64 drill) compared to the 23-3109 and 23-3101 (#62 drill). The smaller idle tube will suit the grey better.

If you are just going to bolt it up and run, buy either of the 23-3109 and 23-3101.... they'll run better mid-range.
If you have some jets to re-tune, but the 23-3102 (it will idle better).

Cheers,
Harv

[fe350chev]

So has that cleared up everything you wanted to know. It's confirmed they are all stamped the same way throughout. Any that aren't stamped on the front must either be too dirty to see or have been deleted for looks from the frontal view perhaps. Due to the rest of the stampings being the same I'm assuming the letters for the 179 and 202 in each model car will have the same codes for either model engine. But that's what I will try to confirm.

[fe350chev]

Ok harvsy me boy I rang a carby place to ask about a 173 vb manual red carby 3118 . He said the auto and manual specs are very important. He said the number on the left is irrelevant as it's just a casting number on front of bowl. I think I may have mentioned 179 somewhere, I meant 173 sorry. The other carby guy locally I saw in person recommended putting the smaller jet in all of them. I won't bother with the engine designation letters if it's too cruddy cos you know them and they will be visible on the torana one cos I'll buy that one but I suppose I can check the casting numbers but the Hz one is this ; a "t" stamped near to the circle number adjacent engine and also on the left on front upper thin part of the bowl there's a "9". There's also what is a "b" which I assume is for bendix. But not good stamps.

[Harv]

the Hz one is this ; a "t" stamped near to the circle number adjacent engine and also on the left on front upper thin part of the bowl there's a "9". There's also what is a "b" which I assume is for bendix. But not good stamps.

OK - if the HZ one was stamped, it should be either MX, MA, AX, MB, AB, MY or AY. The "b" may be part of the AB or MB stamping.

Cheers and thanks,
Harv

[fe350chev]

It's a really bad stamp on the front left mate. I'll take a brush next time but I can't see me having time til next week. This one has a "T" on the side. What's that for.

See this one for sale, it doesn't have 2 letters on the front.

This Hz one for sale (on net with right number) has this on front left like what I remember the other hz ones today so the 2 letters must be elsewhere.

Looks like a single 9 and a B?