Holden, What fits What

[mickrat]

   i am fitting a Hr front end to my Fe ,will the outrigger from the original front end fit on to the Hr front end and line up correctly, looks like it will, want to make sure before welding in place, also running Hr diff drum to drum, will it be ok to use the narrower Fe springs in the diff brackets with new rubbers, have bolted them up and it looks ok,finally running a late Ek motor and g/box with the B prefix engine number ,will the hr rear universal joint match up to the Ek tailshaft yoke, Mickrat Tassy

[mcl1959]

1) No, you need to use the outrigger from an FB EK or EJ
2) Yes, FE rear springs will be fine with new rubbers. If you were considering high horsepower then maybe I would revisit this area.
3) Yes, later uni will fit fine.
Other things you may not have thought about.
The brake line diameter is different, you will need to use adapters for the front and rear hoses, or you can use the whole brake line set up from an FB EK which will all bolt up without any modification.
The bolts/rubbers which hold the front end to the body are different between FE and HR. Generally it's easiest to use the HR system rather than adapt the FE rubbers to fit, so make sure you get the HR bolts and rubbers with your front end.

Ken

[mickrat]

thanks for your input ken  much appreciated,
I was given a complete front end ,was told it was from an Fc ,the out rigger was tatally different from the Fe one, thats the one i was intending to use, but obviously its from Fb  EK . ,
Brake lines , am going to make up new ones larger diameter, with regards to fitting the booster, do i plumb it into just the front discs or the whole system .  mickrat tassy

[FCRB26]

Mickrat theres only a slight difference in the outrigger fe fc to fb ek id say its a stock HR front outrigger really long with cutouts in it.


Put some picks up or if your struggling with pics  (they can be painful) email or text them to me. fcrb26@gmail.com or 0410687343


Pete

[Gordon]

Hi Ken what is different between the FE-FC to HR mounting bolts and rubbers ?
Gordon

[mcl1959]

Firstly I'm with Pete, the FE outrigger is very similar to the FB one in looks, it's just a bit deeper, therefore won't line up with the subframe when attached to the HR crossmember. A stock HR outrigger has a round end with a hole in it.
The FC crossmember mounting has 3 rubbers with longer bolts to match. The HR only has 2 rubbers with shorter bolts.
The lower FC rubber will not fit into the HR crossmember and is an inferior mounting system anyway.
If you are using a VH 40 booster, this only suits front discs. A master vac is a far better solution nowadays as virtually all engineers require a dual brake system.

Ken

[hsv-001]

No,the fe outrigger is the shallow one and can be useful if a front mounted rack is required otherwise use the deeper fb-eh outrigger.If using the vh40 booster,as it was designed to boost the entire system you must use the smaller wheel cylinders on the rear brakes.That is the cylinders that  are used on hr with front discs.Also no on the uni question .If you are still running the original diff centre you will notice that it has a keyed set of uni cups and a plain set that are pressed into the tailshaft .They are the same size so you wiil have to use a new 1786 uni and change the cups to the u bolt type of the later diff centre or swap centres.

[mcl1959]

I don't really want to hijack the thread, but you can't use an FE FC outrigger on a HR front end without cutting it up and sectioning it. The FE front crossmember is deeper in the middle than an FB one and therefore the outrigger is deeper to match. The FB crossmember is shallower and the outrigger will bolt straight up to the subframe if welded to a HR front end.
With regard to the VH 40, yes it boosts all the brakes, but is a single system that is only suitable for disc front and drum rear. If the car is to be engineered, then it is unlikely to pass.
Mickrat also says he is running a HR diff so the uni that is used on the HR diff WILL fit the stock tail shaft.

Ken

[mcl1959]

Actually I wrote that wrong, the FE crossmember IS shallower than the FB EK one, not what I wrote.
The shallow FE outrigger doesn't bolt up to the subframe when welded to the HR crossmember. Far easier to use the FB one

Ken

[hsv-001]

I have done hundreds of these conversions in the past 20 years and the common practice is to remove the HR outrigger and replace it with a fc-eh outrigger or a munufactured one .The original outriggers are riveted at four points spot welded at 6 points.Like I previously said, if a front mounted rack is to be used the outrigger is in the way and the neatest conversions section the outrigger by removing a triangular gusset from either side of the outrigger to lower the outrigger by approx. 60mm then the rack can be mounted above the outrigger this is where the shallower fe outrigger can be handy.I would be surprised if any engineer would allow the outrigger to be bolted on as we have alway welded them inside and out.Sorry but I tend to go into too much detail and this creates controversy.So yeah go right ahead .The old sideplate and box will be no problem change the outrigger to fc-eh.The tailshaft is fine until you get to the back uni then get yourself onother 1786[ from 3.55 onward they had 'u' bolts] and swap the caps unless the centres have been changed.Some modification wiil have to be made to the brake lines.Also mounts for your handbrake cable unless you get your old cable altered.Consult an engineer regarding single and dual circuit brakes as in some states this is dependent on engine capacity.Check that you have the smaller hr rear wheel cylinders.I run a nissan dual system with booster and master on the firewall but some boosters are too large to allow clutch master room.Check what we did with old Mt Isa boys fc toyota clutch master fitted behind commadore booster [the slave cylinder was sleeved to suit].Like I said sometimes I go into too much detail and create confusion.I you have any problem or need info just message me,cheers.

[NES304]

EJ outrigger on my HR front end fits perfectly.

[ardiesse]

Way back in the dim dark days I did a disc brake conversion on my EK.  I used an EJ outrigger, which fitted the HR front crossmember without problems, only to discover that the front engine mount holes didn't line up (that was an easy fix with a drill), but also the engine sat too low at the front, so the gearbox extension housing was nearly hitting the No. 1 body crossmember.  I had to make a spacer, from memory about 3/4" thick, to go between the front engine mount plate and the front engine mount.

If you're running a grey motor, best to use an FB-EK front crossmember outrigger.

rob

[FCRB26]

Sent from my GT-I9305T using Tapatalk 2

[mickrat]

Thanks for posting the pics for me Pete  Hr out digger is obvious the other one next to it is from the stock fe front end so the one I've used is fc through to ej. Is that right ?  Thanks for all the feed back fellas. Mickrat tassy

[fe350chev]

This is all very useful to me too as I am also up to this bit. BUT, HSV said about the use of a front mounted rack, but just a word of warning that any engineer that I have recently spoken to, or people who have tried to get retrospect approval had to change theirs to a rear mount rack, so I guess it's not deemed acceptable ATM to run a front mount rack unless it already has docs for this.

Does anyone have an EJ outrigger they don't need or know where I could get one in Radelaide (second pref Melbourne).

Thanks Ken, Pete and HSV for all the tips. A combination of all your experiences gives us guys (not necessarily new to restoring but new to these makes) a better idea of how to approach the next task. I think the forum is invaluable in that you can almost project manage the build and accumulate things ahead of time just by being a sponge.

[hsv-001]

Correct, the move is away from front mounted racks on hr hd frontends they often limited turning circle and almost always had a huge accamin [is that how you spell it] problem.HQ and LC LJ, torana steerings always cut up your lawn.Basic problem was the forward facing steering arm was offset the wrong way,so was the term radial tuned suspension [rts] introduced.The designers inclined the stub axles to improve cornering.Sorry i'm getting off topic again,rear racks are better but the HQ steering arms are not offset enough and earlier arms being longer will require more travel in the rack[more teeth].This is if you are using the commadore manual rack[last 3 digits 911].One more thing if you are having trouble finding an outrigger they are not hard to make.Then if you need to space the front mount add a piece of sheetmetal between the engine plate and the mount.This was a thing we did in the old days to protect the front mount from heat and oil damage.

[fe350chev]

Yeah that explains why I have heard guys who are fairly particular about their builds say that unless they are fabricating a custom front, they only use rear mount rack or a complete LH (I think) front end. Not the torries you said anyway. Oh and Ken, you are supported when you told me or someone else recently that using the normal HR steering arms will be ok. Depends on the positioning of the rack. I have been told by a few trusted people who have just had their engineers done that the engineer was happy with the HR ones and was no need to change to HG, HT earlies. We have fabricated enough lately on this build  but I suppose one more thing wont hurt. Someone once said "the elephant one" to me. Had no bloody idea what he meant at the time, but I suppose it does look like an elephant, sort of 

[MRJ68]

With fitting a hr front end to fe ute can I put hq disc on and want to run 10 bolt Salisbury can I use the calipers or run different ones . Also what front stub axles. Can be run 

[mcl1959]

Yes very easy, just fit HK to HZ stub axles. The HZ brakes would be preferable to HQ because they have a better caliper.

Ken

[mcl1959]

That said, you won't be able to run a standard HQ rim because the offset is wrong, a custom offset rim will be needed.

Ken