Rear Brakes

[mc54]

Hi All

Just a few questions about the brakes on an FC.

Lately my rear ones have been sticking. I have taken the drums off and had a look. They definitely need a reline - paper thin on the leading shoe.
My local brake supplier told me that the front and rear shoes are the same. Is this true?
Since they are an exchange item only, I don't want to bring the new ones home and find they will not fit.
Also the drums are warped, right now the only thing touching the drum on the right rear brake is the bottom of the trailing shoe.
Being old brake drums I imagine they (I should probably have the front ones done as well) have been turned a few times.
If they cannot skim them again, what are the options?
How available would another set be?

I do not know if this is what is causing the rear brakes to stay on, I'll soon find out.

Regards

Mike

[CraigA]

Get the guy to radius the shoes to suit the drums after machining. If the drums are beyond their usable size then you'll need to source good second hand ones.

Also make sure that the wheel cylinders are not sticking. They are typically gummed up or rusty especially in cars that don't do lots of work. I've also seen rust under the adjusters which makes the fail to return to home position.

Check the return springs are well and that pivot points are lubricated.

[mc54]

All the wheel cylinders are new from Rare Spares. Well, around two years old but have only done 500 miles.
Could very well be the return springs. Will look into that.
Thanks for reminding me about getting the shoes radiused, had forgotten all about that part.

I have thought about driving the whole thing over to the local mechanic and letting him sort it out.
He had offered to buy the car off me if I ever wanted to sell it, so I imagine he would do a proper job, since the car could be his one day.

Thanks Again

Mike

[CraigA]

around two years old but have only done 500 miles

And probably stuffed.

While you have the brakes apart you should kit them and grease the rubber cups. The wheel cylinder design is very poor as moisture can enter the system very easily and if you are not using the car very regularly  (and therefore boiling any water out of the fluid and drying the system) then they will rust. Brake fluid is hygroscopic - ie: it draws moisture to itself and will do so even from humidity in the air.

Others will have their own view but I reckon everyone should be flushing and replacing the fluid every 12 months if the cars see infrequent use.

[mc54]

Well, you were right on the money with that one. I have taken one of the wheel cylinders apart. The amount of crud in there is incredible.
The rubbers still look new but that is about it. Time to pull the other one out and take everything down to the brake guys.
See if they can hone them out or failing that, put stainless sleeves in them.
Certainly have learned a lesson on this one.

Thanks Again
Mike

[mc54]

Have replaced the rear brake cylinders and shoes.

I am having some problems with the left rear brake. As you can see from the following photos (taken before the new shoes went on).

The first one is the right brake, notice how close the park brake actuating rod is to the rear shoe.




Now, this is the left side, you can see how much more distance there is between the rod and the shoe.



I have put the new shoes on and the right side is no problem.

The left side is the problem, I have tried turning the eccentric trying to lessen the gap. No chance. The problem is that when I put the drum on
the shoes rub and since the rod is holding the shoes out, no amount of adjusting will change that. I am tempted to just throw it back together and drive it.
I am going to take it apart one more time and if I cannot find a solution I may do just that.

Any ideas?

Mike

[GOA350]

Check where you have the bracket that holds the outer cable to the body of the car. If that is not in the right position it can alter the adjustment.

[ACE]

Did you back the handbrake cable right off? or it might be a sticking cable.
ACE 

[mc54]

Those are both excellent suggestions. The handbrake cable was backed right off but the cable might be sticking.
Will strip down to the backing plate this weekend including taking the bracket off and start from scratch.

Thanks

Mike

[pedro]

The left side is the problem, I have tried turning the eccentric trying to lessen the gap. No chance. The problem is that when I put the drum on
the shoes rub and since the rod is holding the shoes out, no amount of adjusting will change that. I am tempted to just throw it back together and drive it

Don't drive it if the brake is binding Mike, the friction will heat everything up and it will expand causing the brakes to bind even more and possibly grab damaging your new pads, there must be a reason it's not sitting right, the handbrake cable sounds like the most probable cause.
                           Pedro

[mc54]

Thanks Pedro

Took them apart again last night. I'm going to replace the rear hand brake cable. It is stretched and at the end of its adjustment, so it needs to be replace anyhow. While everything is hanging there I might as well do some measuring just in case something is bent or from maybe another model with slightly different dimensions. Are all the drum brake parts interchangeable throughout the various years?

Mike

[EffCee]

Mike,
FE FC are assentially the same, FB EK have a larger lining area, different piping, not sure whether components from FB EK will fit on FE FC backing plates, We changed over brakes on my Grandfathers car, any years ago and used all the braking system from an EK. We used the backing plates complete with all piping. EJ and EH are different, so are HD and HR.

Keith

[mc54]

Thanks Keith

Have just ordered a new cable. Since it will be a couple of days until it arrives I will have plenty of time to compare the two sides and see if all the measurements are the same.

Mike

[julius]

Hi Mike

Have been reading your post.

Often when you park your car it is instinct to pull the hand brake on this is a good thing however it can cause the wheel cylinder to gum up in that position and sometime can even cause the wheel cylinders to leak. Rubber grease also attracts crap the best thing on reassembly is a smear of brake fluid inside the wheel cylinder and a smear on the cup as it goes in.

I use silicone brake fluid as I don't want Effie's paint to be attacked if by chance I get a leak. May I say I have it happen to me and could not stop it. I think it was leaking through the  stainless steel sleeve. Lucky I use silicone.

I have a suggestion about the arm and I think front and rear shoes are the same, if you have had all the 4 sets done then take the fittings of the back shoe and change it with the same front shoe and see if that makes a difference, its easy done.

Best of luck.

Regards

Julius

[mc54]

I would love to be able to check the front shoes with the rear but unfortunately my garage is so small I can only get the floor jack under one end of the car at a time.
I have already installed the two new rear slave cylinders and bled the system. When I finally get the rear brakes sorted out I have to take the car out of the garage and
turn it around, then remove the front slave cylinders and see if they are corroded. If so, then time to check the master cylinder.
I have certainly learned my lesson on this one. From now on I will be changing the brake fluid every 6 months or so.

Regards
Mike

[pedro]

G'day Mike did you have a look at the handbrake actuating rod placement without the cable connected, if it's the cable creating the problem then without it everything should sit in the right spot.
                             Pedro

[mc54]

Hi Pedro

I have been a bit slack and haven't disconnected the cable yet. Am going to take it out this weekend and will see how it all fits without it.

Regards
Mike

[EffCee]

Mike,

A quick easy way to check to see if the cable is sticking or binding is to take the brake drum off (if it isn't off already) and pull on the handbrake cable, it should move quite freeely, if it doesn't then that would be your issue. Quite often, dirt and other debris accumulate inside the sheathing near the diff. I find that the following will nearly always work.

Remove the cable from the car, hang the cable up where you can drip Inox or WD40 or other penetrating oil into the cable, leave over night, it is better if you can actually come back several times to fill sheathing up with penetrating oil. The following day, place the ball end of the cable in a vice, (use copperjaws to prevent damage to the ball) and grab the sheathing and pull, it will usually start to move. From there it is more penetrating oil and keep working the sheathing back and forth until it slides freely. Keep wiping the gunk that comes out of the cable off with a rag as you go.

If at any time you notice that the cable is frayed, then it has reached the end of its servicable life, and is time to be replaced.

Keith

[pedro]

Remove the cable from the car, hang the cable up where you can drip Inox or WD40 or other penetrating oil into the cable

Some good advice from Keith there, I'd just like to add if you make a cone shape out of a peice of plastic and tape it to the end of the outer cable it makes it a lot easier to get the penetrating oil in, we use the same technique for bike cables.
                           Pedro

[mc54]

Thanks guys

I have tried to move the cable with a pair of pliers, no movement at all.
A new cable has already been ordered as the one already on there is stretched and at the end of its adjustment. It was going to
be replaced anyway so now is as good a time as any.

Regards
Mike