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smudge
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« on: June 27, 2009, 08:08:39 PM » |
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Hi all, new to the forum, have an fc sedan in the build. Fitting 308 out of a vl. Was going to cut down rack from donor vl but thought i whould check if any one knows of a rack that will rear mount to the hr front end without cutting down?
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mcl1959
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« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2009, 08:53:51 PM » |
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The shorter racks generally aren't strong enough for a V8 powered car as they come from smaller 4 cylinder cars. Rear mount racks are also a bit of a compromise as far as steering goes because of the Ackerman angles being totally out of kilter. Have a look at some front mount kits as these provide a better solution.
Others here may be able to give you some help with shorter racks that they have used.
Ken
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jasonr70002
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« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2009, 09:58:55 PM » |
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Pat gardiner uses VH commo racks for his conversions for rear rack and rods racks uses the same and lh or lx or uc torrie for front mounted. There are differing opinions on which works better and both have pro's and con's. Some say that front mounted gives a terrible turning circle others say not. I too am trying to figure out which way to go so I will keep an eye on this thread to help out on a decision.
cheers Jason
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Golden Holdens FE-FC
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FC427
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« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2009, 10:35:42 PM » |
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I have done both front with LH LX UC type bad turning circle but otherwise is OK providing there is a bit of weight in the steering wheel easy enough to drive a little indirect in my opinion ......Rear mounted with shortened VB VC VH turning circle is better than standard steering is relative light for a manual set up but Ackerman is a little off and you can feel if it a little[ may be able to be improved by heat bending steering arms and then having them re heat treated] which a lot of rodders do wheel returns no problems after cornering, have driven car at 120 no not K's and was good no floaty sensations very direct easy to handle ......FC427.......
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As I lay rubber down the street I pray for traction I can keep, but if I spin and begin to slide please dear god protect my ride
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smudge
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« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2009, 09:39:48 AM » |
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Thanks for your imput guys, looks like i've got some more homework to do!
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earlyholdenfan
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« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2009, 04:12:53 PM » |
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Just thought I would add my 2c worth to this thread,
I took a trip to meet Rod from Rod's Racks and toured through his workshop, most impressed!
I was offered a test drive of his front mounted rack in his EH ute, and it drives great!
The feeling is kind of half way between power steer and original steering with regaurds to steering wheel "Feel", the turnign circle is as good as any early Holden I have driven, and suspension travel and wheel tracking along corrugated roads was fine, it convinved me to drop off my parts and he is doing one at the moment for me.
No one I have spoken to that has used his gear has had any fitting or quality issues and nothing but great reports. Give him a call and talk to him about what you are fitting and he will give you his advice.
Matt
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mcl1959
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« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2009, 04:46:13 PM » |
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Straight line speed is not usually an issue with the racks. Cornering at speed and cornering when suspension travel is involved are where Ackerman angles become involved. The effects to look for are understeer changing to oversteer or vice versa. This effect has the potential to change the car's direction when you least expect it, and can be difficult to compensate for if you have the car on its limits.
Basically most people can set up a front end so that the steering does not move in or out with suspension travel in the straight ahead position, but it is difficult to get travel correct at full and opposite lock as well.
Ken
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ratbox
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« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2009, 08:31:05 PM » |
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my V8 van had a front mount stock width UC torana rack with high soft suspension it did exactly what you described ken, but with very low and heavy front springs it was great went round curves etc like it was glued to the road admittedly the heavy low springs won't suit everybody
also had an EK ute also with a V8 it had a front mount LC/LJ rack it was also very good on the road without the low heavy suspension
both had excellent steering locks etc and quite easy to steer
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FC427
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« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2009, 09:31:06 PM » |
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Straight line speed is not usually an issue with the racks. Cornering at speed and cornering when suspension travel is involved are where Ackerman angles become involved.......  .Ken I made no mention of straight line speed that was coming up Mt Victoria and it is far from a straight flat road  .......FC427...... Ken |
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As I lay rubber down the street I pray for traction I can keep, but if I spin and begin to slide please dear god protect my ride
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mcl1959
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« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2009, 09:49:48 PM » |
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Fair enough Mark.
Your car sounds like it is well put together and a joy to drive.
Over the years I have seen some woeful attempts at front suspension and steering - It just shows that you can get it right if you know what you are doing and put the time and effort into doing it properly.
Ken
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Ed
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« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2009, 09:30:54 AM » |
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At the risk of getting a caning...
I really like the front mount CRS Torana Rack.
You can get a really good fit up of the engine and it handles perfectly.
the turning circle is no worse than my Rodeo.
I would use one again...
Cheers
Ed
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in the shed
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JB
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« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2009, 08:39:18 PM » |
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Yet mine is rubbish, cant get around the court at home and it scrubs tyres... Dont know if they changed or not, but I would have to vote against another one sorry Ed. I got the V6 conversions set up and if you add up the numbers then its not too bad...
Well...
Purchase price $4925 delivered
Includes Coil over shocks (approx $750)
Uses VT Calipers and rotors (Donor Car) and allows ABS brakes, so saved $1000 for a Hoppers Stoppers conversion which i would highly recommend.
Allows for no sump modifications... Cost $750 for CRS sump for Van
Rear mounted rack... not supplied cost around $450 outright
I think with freight the CRS front end was $2000 approx delivered to Cairns 7 years ago, so for shocks, brakes, sump mod, and steering arms that fitted cost me nearly $4000 for something that doesn't work properly.
For an extra $1000 I am very happy with the product from V6 conversions
Cheers
Jason.
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Phone +64 223509263
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Ed
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« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2009, 07:43:47 AM » |
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In that perspective Jason, it makes perfect sense, but I'm thinking with all this new improved gear, people will be selling off the older Torana conversion gear.
I bet your new set up will ride like a dream, but it's no surprise, look at how you're putting it together!
I'm serious when I say the Rodeo can't turn any better than the wagon... the LWB does have something to do with it though.
Cheers
Ed
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in the shed
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ratbox
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« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2009, 12:56:27 PM » |
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sorry ED but yor the first person i've ever heard say the hadfield setup was good, i've had and driven cars with them but to me they only served a purpose wouldn't call them good
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Ed
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« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2009, 01:30:46 PM » |
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Ratbox, You would have had a few of these over the years too.
I know it sounds strange, took a while to get it properly dialled in, but once it was, it drove well.
The guys at the local tyre/wheel shop had all their electronic alignment gizmos on, and adjusted everything spot on and the before and after difference was unbelievable.
The slight correction to the castor adjustment had the biggest effect tho.
Before it went in, the steering was heavy, difficult to manouvre at low speed etc. After it was easy to drive at all speeds, light steering etc.
Back to the original question tho by smudge, Glenn m used a Nissan rack I beleive, it's on the forum somewhere.
Cheers
Ed
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in the shed
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blinky051
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« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2009, 08:53:22 PM » |
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Hello Ken. Bill here with the yellow&black wagon.Thought i might put on rack&pinion steering,and i would like to know, do you prefer front or back steering and which type of rack.I have a Hadfield HR front end
and 179 holden 6.All i really need is for the car to track in a straight line and not have to correct it all
the time.
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mcl1959
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« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2009, 09:00:51 PM » |
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My experiences with Rods racks have been very good - so that is my personal preference. They are not cheap, but do provide a good result.
Ken
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blinky051
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« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2009, 09:06:17 PM » |
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Hello Ken. Bill here with the yellow&black wagon.Thought i might put on rack&pinion steering,and i would like to know, do you prefer front or back steering and which type of rack.I have a Hadfield HR front end
and 179 holden 6.All i really need is for the car to track in a straight line and not have to correct it all
the time.You know what skinny tyres are like.
ANY help would be great. |
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earlyholdenfan
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« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2009, 07:39:07 PM » |
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Blinky, I will be picking up a Rod's Racks front end in the next couple of weeks if you are in Melbourne feel free to check it out (prior to fitting) for testament to the quality of his work.
I have not heard a single complaint on his stuff, and as mentioned his EH ute with same fitted drove very well, as have many other cars with same
Matt
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