Fuel injecting a grey motor

[jasonr70002]

Has anyone here injected a grey motor if so who did it and how?

[FC427]

There was an article in Australian Street Rodding March 2007 on performance building the Holden Grey where they went through the build and then fitted Fuel Injection [back copies can be ordered fromGraffiti publications ] but they were a custom made set of  throttle bodies  still may be useful if going down the injection path for some of the infomation supplied  ....Have also seen in a magazine where someone cut up a VK Commodore injection manifold and made it fit the Grey........FC427......

[customFC]

The subject of said article.

Regards
Alex

[Glenn 'Stinky' Stankevicius]

There is a bloke in the states that makes TBI kits for side draught Strombergs and SUs, the kits are only for 2 carbs at the moment (Euro sports cars) but apparently they are going to develop one for triples. The parts they sell that can't be bought locally are the special injector mounts (inside the carbs) and the throttle position sensor. I am trying to get my head around it and find out what computer I can use to service 3 throttle bodies/injectors.
If you can find a computer to do the job then it's not that much of a stretch to adapt to a grey motor once you have a set of triples.

[jasonr70002]

I like the idea of modifying an already existing injection setup like off a vk engine or similar but dont know a hell of a lot about injection. I am hoping someone can also explain how to modify the VK loom to splice it into the FE. If i find injection off something else I will keep everyone updated on progress with pics and all info so it can be redone by anyone else who wishes to do it.

[Ed]

I would try using motorcycle Throttle bodies on a custom manifold.

trick    and a Delco 808 ECU of course.

Cheers

Ed

[jasonr70002]

Sounds good ED do you have pics and instructions on how to set this up. I can do the manifold but it's the wiring etc that is the hard part.
Cheers Jason

[GOA350]

I have had this idea for the last 4 years accept i'm going to supercharge aswell. I have a toyota supercharger and an injected Camera as a donor for the computer and sensors and all the other bits. Now all i need is time to fabricate everything. I'm currently in the middle of building an FC with old school stuff then i might start on the injection system. There are a few around but they are mainly in FJ's.
Keep you all posted,
                           Scott

[Ed]

Sounds good Scott!

Jason, wiring.. it's not hard, just time consuming, but with patience and being methodical can be done quite easily.

when you analyse it, you really only need to be able to supply the appropriate 12V, a bunch of relays, and you're good to go. Of course a few other adaptions, one of the more difficult ones may be the Hall Effect dizzy.

TPS adapts to throttlebody of choice (may be difficult getting the correct voltage at the required throttle position if using motorcycle). or just use a VN/camira TB etc.

IAC is normally in your stock TB.

CTS plumbs into your coolant easily.

MAT can plumb into your air filter.

MAP sensor anywhere up high close to vac source.

Dizzy supplies "crank position" based on firing and timing.

I have the wiring diagram for a Delco 808 setup, from the VN, camira, astra etc.

VSS can be obtained from Perth.. hopefully one to suit your gearbox/speedo drive, if not you may need to think of something here... I forget the exact pulse rate, but it was a bit of a strange one.

I also added computer controlled fans, by adapting the Air Con Function etc.

A check Engine Light was incorporated so all the factory trouble shooting and codes can be downloaded.

I'm no expert, I just made up a cooler looking EFI for my last car, using OEM equipment.

Dean (smithy) can chime in with more info o n his current conversion perhaps?

I do like EFI and said I'd "never" return to carbs.. never is a big word tho.

Cheers

Ed

[JSM]

Could always just go TBI, use one of the falcon units. Set up would still use an oxygen sensor etc so would still have potential to be a considerable improvement on a carb from that point of view.

Correct me if i'm wrong but the system pictured above only has three injectors anyway?! It would be hard to achieve multi point injection with shared ports. At least with the falcon unit you can just adapt to a two barrel inlet manifold....

Would it be possible to mount the injectors in the head perhaps? not to familiar with greys but if there was enough room and meat around the inlet ports could you mount them there? then fire the fuel straight behind each valve? then you could have 6 injectors...

Cheers
John

 

[jasonr70002]

Is TBI easy to set up if so it could be a good choice for me due to a smallish budget. I am using the grey engine and thinking of using better drums or are the originals ok.

[Ed]

Defintely TBI unless you're an ace machinist/magician with lots of time to experiment.

hence the choice of motorcycle TB's., as JSM pointed out the ports are siamesed so always going to be a bit of a compromise, so the Falcon set up would be the "easiest" but your air/fuel mix is still going to have the same distribution issues as a carb?

maybe adapt 2 motorcycle TB's on a twin carb manifold.. I reckon that would be great!
not sure if it would provide enough fuel tho?.. ramp up your fuel pressure and widen your fuel pulse perhaps and use a mega squirt ECU?

ideas, ideas....

Cheers

Ed

[JSM]

Motorcycle TB's on a twin carb manifold could work well, At least that would improve the fuel distribution as Ed highlighted... falcon unit contains two injectors so still could be an option from the cost effective point of view. I don't see why you couldn't adapt one injector per throttle body and not use the two barrel housing. The adaption would be the only tricky bit I reckon.

I reckon they could supply enough fuel as long as you got the pulse and everything right... the injectors themselves are capable of running the 4lt falcon 6.... almost twice as big capacity wise as the grey!...? Why would the std falcon pulse and everything not work? it adjusts itself of o2 sensor so should be able to keep mixture right. They were designed to work like electronic carbies so I think they'd have to be close to the mark. Falcon motor has the same firing order I believe....

Cheers
John

[zulu]

Going back to Jasons original question, has anyone had any feed back on how the grey would go with the injection, would be good to know up front if it is worth the effort.

Pic looks good though
Gary

[Ed]

John,

I was thinking motorcycle injectors, but your idea of the falcon TBI set up on the twin carb manifold would be much easier.

In the end, the pictured set up is optimum, because of the nice straight runners into the ports.  the twin carb manifold wold still have fuel pooling in the manifold to some extent.

gary,
you would pick up smoothness, tunability, and economy.
EFI alone wouldn't produce any significant power gains over a well tuned set of twins... I think.

EFI would allow a more radical engine setup, which would idle and produce the potential power at WOT, which carbs may have difficulty doing.

is it worth it?  I think so.. even if it is just to play around... others may disagree entirely based on the amount of stuffing around.

Cheers
Ed

[Glenn 'Stinky' Stankevicius]

If I can just hijack with a tech question, does it matter how many injectors are in the system? or do they all fire at once? For my planned set-up I'll be using 3 injectors but not sure how that would work with available computers.

[Ed]

Stinky,

Most EFI systems work n the "batch fire" principle where they all fire at once.

"Sequential injection" was developed to meet stricter emissions, but there is no performance gain, these fire off per cylinder.

so number of injectors, not relevant.. you run them off the same ECU output.  Eg Delco 808 is used for 4, 6, 8 cylinders.  In fact I was accidentally running the V8 off a V6 Chip...I can't believe it actually ran!

If you look at the wiring schematic's at all makes sense.

there's a heap of info on "MEGASQUIRT" EFI systems too.

Cheers

Ed

[Glenn 'Stinky' Stankevicius]

Sweet!

[jasonr70002]

I am loving this thread as it conjurs up great ideas and sounds like it is coming from people in the know. Is it possible for someone to show pics or write up or both on how to modify a VN or similar harness to get it to work ie pink wire goes here relay goes there etc etc for the delco 808. Any and all help is and will be greatly appreciated and maybe between a few of us we can make this thing work and pass the idea onto other members so we can all benefit from it.
jason 

[jasonr70002]

Oh and are the drum brakes they have any good or would later drums ie hd hr be better I will be adding a booster to them to tart them up a bit and maybe change to the CRS mod to fir the torana discs onto the king pin front later if they do no good but I assume they are ok because they worked ok when they came out but like i said if later ones are better then i can change them.