King Pins

[Rod]

Hi All,

In following up my discusion on tyres (still haven't been able to source them) I have a question on king pins. The tyres were extremely scuffed and there is a little wear in the kin pins so I have decide to replace them along with the tie rod ends. I have a set of reconditioned king pins I bought at a swap meet a number of years ago. They are Rare Spare ones as they still have a sticker on them. My question is how easily should the stub axle move on the pin? The reason I ask is that they are extremely tight and I have to force them to make them turn. What I am worried about is that they have been put together without being reamed.

I remember my father telling me years ago that his father who was one of the early mechanics in the Mallee/Victoria (before mechanics were known as mechanics) had to repair a tractor that had king pins replaced without being reamed. His said before he repaired it, the tractor needed a 100 acre paddock to turn. I certainly don't want to replace the king pins and then find out I need a 100 acre paddock to turn my trust old FC ute.

Any thoughts on how tight the pins should be would be most appreciate.

Thanks

Rod

PS: The king pins have being stored away from moisture / dust and were greased before storage.

[mcl1959]

What you describe sounds right, they will loosen up pretty quickly

Ken

[Rod]

Thanks Ken. I now feel happy to replace these knowing they will free up.

Looks lke another job for the weekend.

Cheers

Rod

[59fcholden]

Could i ask a question regarding king pins, i would like to replace the ones in the frontend, is there any places in Brisbane other than rares that do them?
sorry for hijacking the thread
ken

[Johns]

Hi Rod.

Picking up on your comment about tyres. What are you trying to source? If it is cross plies, they are available. If it is radials, the closest you can come to the 6.40x13 crossply is a 185/80/13. You'll just have to live with the 3% difference. If you currently run a 185/75/13 you'll be better off anyway.

These are a little diffiicult to source, but not too hard. They are dearer than 14" tyres because of less demand. It will cost between $100 -$140 each depending on what you buy. They all seem to have narrow band whitewalls, if you don't like 'em reverse 'em.

If you do like them, the issue is the "browning" of the whitewall. This is caused by the oil in the rubber leaching through the whitewall. Assuming they are all generally good, particularly given the high performance nature of the car , to me this is the primary issue. Over the past four years I have bought five sets of these tyres and this is what I have found.

The Sumitomo SC890s are or are soon to be available again. They are good tyres but the whitewall browning is severe. Both Cooper and Mastercraft tyres, both made by Cooper are excellent, the whitewall does not go brown. Antique tyres used to sell them but I'm told they are no longer made, however they are listed in the US and with the $ where it is importation is feasible.

I have no experience with Hankooks, but I suspect the whitewalls will brown. I have just bought a set of Maxis 185/80/13s for Thelma, we'll see how they go. They were from Antique Tyres and were $135 each.

I also just bought a set of Coker wide whitewall 6.40x13s. These have a 2 3/4 " whitewall.

The Diamondback tyres have a glued on whitewall, they don't actually make the tyres. This is why they advertise that they won't go brown.

If you clean the whitewall as soon as it goes brown with Jiff on a scourer or toothbrush, this will stop in time.

Sorry for the rambling, but I thought this might help someone.

Cheers
John

[Rod]

John thanks so much for the reply. This is where I believe I am going to go (185/80 x 13). Initially I  wanted to stay with the 185/75 because the speedo is reasonably close after changing to 3.55 diff and changing the speedo gear. In actual fact the speedo shows a couple of miles per hour faster than what it actually is. Having thought this through I believe by going to 185/80 it is will almost correct this slight error (correct me if I am wrong).

As a side issue I always thought supply vs demand influenced prices. One tyre mob I approached initially said they could get 185/75 and would cost $80 each fitted and balanced. I was blown away. Then in the next breath when they realised that they couldn't source them they said we can't get them due to no demand. How does that work. I then had a set of tyres put on the family Mazda6 and was blown away by the price -on special at $165 each down from $189. Go work that one out.

Anyway thanks for the continued information and support. It never ceases to amaze me in the willingness that you all show in providing info. I log occasionally onto another forum (nothing to do with the motor industry) and they are only to willing to "bag and backstab" anyone who provides constructive advice.

Keep up the great work.

Rod

[mcl1959]

I don't know anyone else who does them. I have done a set myself - you need to find a NOS set of pins and bushes and have access to a reamer (you really need one that is designed for kingpins which has a locating leg at the bottom so the the reaming stays parallel).

Ken

[Sheriff]

Ken, (59fc)  I have had a set from Rare Spares in my car for about 3 months with no problems.  They are a bit dear but when you consider the mucking about doing them otherwise, I think they are well worth it.  Take yours off, put the new ones on, hand yours back to Rares, a wheel alignment and away you go.    Mike.

[FB_MAD]

Reaming king pins is time consuming as you have to adjust the cutting depth and then do a ream pass of the fitted bush.Then you have to see how the pin fit is.Then adjust cutting depth again, ream, check blah,blah,blah.

It has to be done a small bit at a time.If you cut too much, you can't put it back, and the kingpin fit will be sloppy as a result.

When I used to do them years ago, I used to take my time and have a nice snug fit.A good squirt of grease when finished and a bit of use and the "tightness" of the kingpin to bush fit will get better.

I tend to agree with sherriff.Rares ones might be a bit high price wise but considering the amount of time involved in mucking around and doing them properly yourself, then the price is not too bad.

[59fcholden]

Thanks for the advice guys,
Will give Rares a ring.
Ken

[Rod]

Ken,

I was able to free up the pins quite well but I am sure with time they will free up more as previous stated. I am al ittle disappointed as there seems to be an excessive amount of grease coming out of one of the welch plugs hence not get as much to where it is needed. Will need to take it out and find a replacement.

Thanks again for all your assistance.

Rod

[Rod]

Well finally found a replacement welch plug. Wasn't that a saga in itself and at the end of the day only cost one buck.

Replaced the first king pin no worries what so ever. The upper and lower pivot pins lined up a treat. I couldn't believe how easy it was until I came to the second one. No matter what, I can't get the pins to line up correctly. I can do the lower one ok but then I can't get the upper one to line up. I then tried doing the upper one first which I could and the lower one wouldn't line up. It seems that the wish bone might be bent. Is this possible or causing this issue?? I tried the g clamp trick as shown in the manual but this won't help.

Has anyone else had similiar problems and if so were you able to rectify it? Missing driving my ol girl can't wait to get back on board.

The whole saga of tyres, then replacing king pins has been enormous. As my ute is a daily driver and being out of action I had to resort to driving my beloved FE sedan. Well after three days I did a rear wheel bearing. Then on monday I was about 500 metres from work and the oil light came on and stayed on not flickering. Thinking it was oil as it does use a little I topped it up and the light stayed on. Bugger - I think I have done the rear big end bearing as I have had some noice for some time. Its been ok as I have nursed it along quietly until now.

Well they say things come in threes. Lets hope it plain sailing from now on once I get these issues addressed

Thanks Again.

Rod

[Ken's 57]

Rod

My oil pressure light came on the same day that I bought my car and was bringing it home up the freeway. Turned out to be the oil pressure switch itself that was leaking and not holding the pressure. I had the same problem with my FJ a few years earlier. A quick visual may give you some indication although if you have a noise it's possibly more serious.

Cheers......Ken

[FB_MAD]

Same for me Ken.

Was out in the middle of woop woop and oil light came on.
Had plenty of oil in engine,no engine knocks/noises.

Motor cost me $50, willing to risk it so drove on.Got a further 355 km to home,no worries .

It was the oil switch ( obviously )

[Rod]

I've had a thought that it maybe the switch. I had one go on me many years ago but oil was oozing out the switch. This isn't happening with this one. I just thought with the slight big end noise that this would be the problem. Anyway over the weekend I will swap the switch and see what happens in between trying to align the king pins. Thanks for the heads up. I will let you know how I get on.

Rod

[mcl1959]

I would suspect if the G clamp does not work then the wishbone is bent. I have never had one that would not thread up with a little help from a G clamp to align the thread.
The procedure I use is as follows;

Install top pin.
start lower pin to see how close the thread in the kingpin is to lining up.
Adjust the camber on the kingpin to align king pin as close as possible.
Install lower pin when the kingpin is at the best spot. This keeps the lower pin from going through at a bad angle and therefore not lining up with the wishbone on the other side.

Ken

[Rod]

Thanks again Ken,

Well I thought things go in threes. Well proven wrong. I took your advice Ken but really struggled to start the bottom pin. Still suspecting something maybe bent with the wishbone I decided to take out the shocker and coil spring to inspect. To my shock I have now discover a broken spring. This has possibly altered the alignment of the king pin?? Without the shocker and coil in place I was able to start the bottom pin with a little of persuasion. I think I will evenually be able to get the king pin aligned I hope.

Now for the saga of the coil. I am on a timeline as I am expecting any day that the tyres have arrived and need to be fitted. Is there anyone out there (closely located to Ballarat, Vic) that may have a ute coil spring they maybe willing to sell? Or would I be able to put the broken spring back until I can locate a replacement? Am I asking for trouble id I do this?

Once again thanks for you continued support.

Rod

[FB_MAD]

Rod,

Don't know if this helps you or not but I've got 2 standard ute springs here out of an FB ute.Don't know if they are same free load height as FE/FC springs though but you can have them for the cost of postage if you want.I live in NSW.I guess postage would be around $20 maybe but would have to check on final cost if you really want them.

I'm sure Ken will know if they are same as FE/FC.

If so, Ken could you remind me which colour they were painted at the factory as they are mixed up with some different colour factory sedan springs and I can't remember which colour ones are which .

[mcl1959]

FE / FC ute van and wagon front springs are all the same - pn 7410727
FB / EK / EJ ute van and wagon front springs are all the same - pn 7419138


The part number is stamped on the side of the spring near the ground end.

According to the manual the springs are daubed with either red or green paint. The red paint springs are slightly stiffer than green and should be installed on the driver's side if your car has one of each colour. The part numbers should be the same on all springs.

I have sent you a pm re springs I have.

Regards  Ken

[Rod]

Once again thanks for everyones help.

Well I have had a slight win. Swapped the oils switches and bingo no light came on. Not as bad as first thought. That must be a winner. Still having a little trouble with proper king pin alignment. I have checked the recoed one against the one I took off and the recoed one seems to have a slight twist in the upright of the assembly. If it was untwisted I am sure things would line up a treat. Not sure what to do. Heat and a twist would fix it but unsure if it would weaken the assembly.

Thanks FB for your generous offer. I have looked at the spring I took out and it is painted black. Looking in the manual its says Station Wagons, Utes and Vans are painted black while sedans are painted grey. I will get back to you after I have spoken to Ken.

 More nightmares. Good night all.