Aussie Desert Cooler.

[NO NAME]

i am starting to think the two cheap 12" ebay fans i bought wasnt a good idea

[earlyholdenfan]

Just to add my two cents worth, I spoke to the technical department at Davies Craig, and they suggested that ONE large fan was far better for airflow than two smaller fans for my proposed V8 Conversion.
he suggested to get the largest fan that can fit on the radiator, and of course shroud it up to suit.
Matt

[Ed]

You're on the money there Matt,

also as Mark illustrated his 16 inch fan pushes more then 2 x 12".
as a rough value a 16 will push 2800 cfm
2 x 12's will push 2000 cfm

I have no way of measuring actual flow to know how much really is moving through.

As the fan blade radius increases it will move more air as the swept area of the blade travels further with each revolution.  The relationship between the blade length and flow rate is not directly proportional as a 8 inch radius blade will flow more than twice that of a 4 inch radius blade.

so stick a massive fan on your radiator if you can fit it! 

I had another look last  night and can probably fit a 16" or twin 14"s in front of my radiator with some carefully made bracketry and shrouding any gap between the fan and core.. A single 16" would be the best but i'd need to know the exact outer dimensions of the fan.

the trans cooler would then need to be re-fitted behind the core.

Poked my head under the X3 bonnet and it has a MASSIVE ally rad with a single 16 shrouded on the rear.

Cheers

Ed

[Devilrod]

Its amazing how much of a difference a shroud will make. I had a 308 LH Torana, it ran at 3/4 in traffic, standard fan no shroud, with shroud no higher than half day in day out. Also make sure your thermostat is in the right heat range. Sometimes higher is better. It gives the water a chance to cool through the radiator if it takes longer to open. Something people tend to avoid doing is fitting a higher temp thermostat. I have senn cars run hot but a simple swap up in the range solved the problem!

[FB_MAD]

I run with similar thoughts to Devilrod.High temp thermosat can be better than low temp ones.

Years ago if you spoke of cars running hot the first thing blokes would say was throw away the thermostat.It was usually more of a case of the thermostat being faulty causing hot running than the fact that the engine had a thermostat fitted.

I'm not a fan of no thermosat in an engine I must say.

I've experiance cars that ran hotter without a thermostat than with a thermostat.

Theory is that with no thermostat this allows the coolant to flow through the radiator too quickly without having sufficient time to cool in the core tubes and gradually temp builds up to a higher degree than running with a thermostat.

Terry.

[FB_MAD]

While speaking of thermostats,

Years ago as an apprentice at Tech College ( as it was called then ) we did a tour of Repco engine Shop in Newcastle.The boss of the place spoke of the benefits of a thermostat in an engine.

He used this story as an example,

A few years before, Repco rebuilt 2 engines ( Chev 307's from memory) to factory "blueprint" specs.Each was built the same using same parts and factory tolerances.

They simulated 1000 miles driving on the same engine dyno under all load conditions.

One ran with the factory range thermostat and one ran without a thermosat.That was the only difference between the engine specs.

After pulling down both engines to check for wear they found that the engine that ran WITHOUT a thermosat had in excess of 5 times the amount of wear than the engine that had ran WITH a thermosat!!

I've always ran a thermostat ever since being told that story and always warm up the engine somewhat before driving off in my cars.

Blokes at work laugh at me for warming up the engine but I know better

Sorry for getting a little off topic but it is cooling system related.

Terry.

[Ed]

thanks for bringing up the topic of thermostats devilrod and intersting story terry.

Sounds like I couldnt go wrong trying out a warmer thermostat either.

Ive got the lowest temp one i could find.. 80 odd.. i forget to be honest but on a winters highway cruise that is what the temp settles down to.

what increments do they come in, should i be going for 90?

its never occurred to me to go hotter in the thermostat rnage to aid cooling but it seems to make sense.

Cheers

Ed

[Devilrod]

Not sure what size to go up to. I'm about to go through the same exercise in the EK, it runs hot on the freeway but if you coast down a hill it cools down and is fine in traffic and at lower speeds. Radiator isn't blocked but water flows to fast to cool. I'm guessing its a 75 (going by gauge), I only checked to see if it had a thermostat when I put the motor in not what heat range.

[FC427]

I also see a nother problem with the twin set up is that you end up with two fan motors restricting air flow. Operating temperature range should 186 F to 192 F otherwise your wearing out your motor because the motor has not reached the heat expansion tolerance it was designed to run at  FC427

[Ed]

good info Mark.

Have you heard of "pacet profan"
check out these flow stats in comparison with a good quality Davies Craig.

http://www.pacet.co.uk/profan.htm
the 12 inch thinline profan claims to flow a whopping 1640cfm at .15" static pressure (equivalent to a 39mm radiator core).

http://www.daviescraig.com.au/main/fans.asp?action=model
meanwhile the davies craig 12 inch flows approx 700cfm at similar pressure.

either profan seriously over state their fans performance or...?

so of course.. has anybody used a pacet profan?? they look relative tornados of flow.

Cheers

Ed

[Ed]

perplexed by the HUGE difference in flow figures for the fans I have investigated deeper...

the quoted figures for the profan are at some stupid amperage which would never work in a car in a real life situation.

the true real life specs we would need to know are more realisticly as follows.

1220cfm   at   11.3A
or we can make them look really good and...
2440cfm   at 22.6A

or spectacular at...
2860cfm   at 37A

the davies Craig figures were quoted im assuming at their nominal 10A.

 comparing apples with apples i suspect the flow would be more realistic at lower amps.

Cheers

Ed

[Devilrod]

I'm running an ICE (Autobahn and Repco seem to be stockists in Vic, at least they were 4 years ago)  on my roadster and outperformed the Davies Craig both in price and cfm from memory. Just cant seem to put my hand on the specs, will look over the weekend when I have time.

One thing I have noticed is all brands of thermo fans seem to loose a bit of oomph after a few years and definitely don't work nearly as well. Mines borderline for replacing. No where near as good as it was when new.

[GM]

Tranny cooler can go under the car, gives  more room for the fixed fan.

                                        Cheers Glenn

[Ed]

Hey devilrod,

I've got twin 12" ICE fans now, I bought them from ADC as Norm recommended them.

I put them on to test the flow through the core and they easily pull much more air through than the previous fans.  Using a high tech test ( a piece of A4 paper) the paper would stick to the front of the grille when the fans were activated!  the previous setup couldn't do this.

the front of my grille is about 5 - 6 inches in front of the core at least and this worked without the bonnet hinge panel fitted.

now I'm just waiting on the new water pump so I can test it out again.

Glenn I've got my auto trans cooler mounted in front of the radiator at the moment.  If I need to move it under the car it would be ok when moving but what about traffic?  I spend alot of time in stop start traffic. 


Cheers

Ed

[Geoff_K]

Ed,
Transmission cooling.
In stop start traffic, very little power is going through transmission, so it will stay cool.
(UNLESS you are STANDING on the brake to get the converter up to stall point, then you might need an air flow over the transmission cooler.... motor has to be working to get OIL temperatures up.)
Geoff_K

[Ed]

Interesting Geoff,

I ditched my high stall convertor to try get better fuel economy and reduce trans heat as you say... but one thing i still cant understand...

Every time i stand on the brake and accelarate alot of smoke comes off the tyres??

 

Cheers

Ed

[customFC]

Hey Ed
Sounds like what you need is a VHT prepared straight bit of surface around 1320 feet in length, with a christmas tree at one end.
Regards
Alex

[Ed]

i reckon you're right Alex,

next sunday 2nd december?

Have you guys got any confirmation from Cruzin re Nostalgia Drags?

I'm pretty confident these heat problems willbe sorted out.

Cheers

Ed

[FC427]

Hi Ed I bought a B&M Trans cooler for my Hot Rod with a small fan mounted to the cooler it is designed to go under the car and cool the auto in any circumstance  even with a Hi stall converter and the fan is controlled by a thermostate and then you don't have to look at the cooler in or around the engine bay   FC427

[Ed]

Hey Mark,

That cooler with fan sounds like the ticket, if I need to I will use one.  So far ive managed to hide the trans cooler and lines with nothing visible BUT if i need more unimpeded flow thru the core, I will consider moving it.

major problems in its relocation would be excessive heat off the exhaust pipes.  You would be surprised how little space there is under the wagon.

There are lots of things like, pipes, surge tanks, fuel lines, chassis kit, gear box sender units and remote mount speed sensors.

Cheers

Ed