Grey motor giving me grey hairs

[spinach]

Hey Guys...

Got me a grey that refuses to turn over. It's a grey from an EJ, with a reco'd EJ dizzy with new points, I bought new leads, new ignition coil and a brand new battery. When I try and turn her over it sounds as if she's turning over very very slowly, I was hoping the new battery would fix it, but no joy. Due to the fact she's not cranking over fast enough it's not pulling any fuel in through the fuel pump. I'm thinking that maybe the starter might on the way, but I have no idea. So any ideas or suggestions please..

thanks in advance ppl.

spin.

[ekmad]

Try taking the plugs out to let it turn over faster to suck some fuel through, or you could try putting a few fuel drops down the carby throat to fire it up while cranking.  
Are you sure that the timing is right and that the battery is fully charged?

[fastjbav6]

Did you fit the dizzy? If so you may have lined up the dizzy oil pump drive but may not have lined up the dizzy gear to the camshaft correctly. This will throw the timing out causing the spark to fire early before the piston gets to the top of its stroke therefore slowing the engine down.Are the leads on right?Have you got a decent size battery?(at least 380CCA).Does it backfire through the carby or exhaust?
With #1 piston just BTDC on the compression stroke the rotorbutton should be pointing to #1spark plug lead on the dizzy cap.Hope this helps you out.
Regards  Seb.

[spinach]

cheers for the advice guys.

I'll try taking the plugs out tonite and try cranking her over again. If it does crank over a hell of a lot faster, would that mean that maybe the compression is to high?

I've got a brand new centrury battery, a massive thing, weighs a tonne, looks like it could jump start a bloody aricraft carrier. Barely fits in my battery box!

I'm about to give up and take the old girl to an old holden joint, just want it back on the road.

spin.

[Vinnie]

Hey
I had the same problem, and it turned out to be the starter motor.

[craiga]

I fix things for a living, and find that when I get in this type of situation another brain is required.

You know the old "can't see the forest for the trees" saying, well it's absolutely true!!

Whereabouts are you? Someone on the forum will hopefully be close enough to come around and give you a hand.

Plugs out will start to guide you in the right direction, it will remove any effect of mistiming and confirm starter motor/flywheel/solenoid. Be careful though as it does not confirm battery cables because of the lower load placed on the battery when the plugs are out.

Good Luck,

Craig.

[spinach]

once again cheers for the replies guys, it's hard to find a place on the net that will give you a reply sometimes!

well, yanked out all the plugs, turned her over and it was a damn sight faster than  before, but still no joy on the fuel. found the timing mark on the flywheel again, put all the plugs/leads back. pointed the dizzy rotor to #1. back to the begining with the slow cranking, and still no fuel is being pulled through.

so.....i'm thinking of gettin another starter and fuel pump, buying parts is my only way of knowing that the parts work.

i live in brighton, a 'burb in adelaide. anyone out there live in adelaide at all? perhaps a phone call in the right direction could help me out.

thanks.

spin.

ps- i think grey motors can smell fear like german shepheards!

[ekmad]

Sorry I dont live in adelaide mate - but brisbane is too far to go.  
Sounds more like the timing is wrong - might be worthwhile getting someone else to double check, as sometimes you can be 180 degrees out. ( camshaft rotates twice for every rotation of the crankshaft )

Otherwise, as you know, all you need are fuel, spark and compression, and it should fire up.

I wouldn't go rushing out buying another fuel pump or starter, as if everything else is right, it should still kick over a couple of times if you pour some fuel down the carby throat as you crank it over.  
Sounds rough but it does work!

good luck.

[HARKO]

Hey Spinach ,Sounds to me like your earth cable might need a clean at the starter, If not earthing enouigh it wont draw enough current either.
Also while youve got the plugs out maybe do a compression test, Go and borrow the guage that screws into the plug hole off that Holden guy but dont take your car to him, It doesnt sound like a major drama so we will work it out for you and its so much better gaining the knowledge for yourself plus you will save money aswell, Cheers
Also another tip - Dont pour fuel into the carby while cranking it cause if it is the timing thats out and it tries to fire out the carby rather than your exhaust   "WOOOF"

[mcl1959]

Sounds like you may have a problem with starter motor load as others have already addressed, but I am concerned that even when you took the plugs out and cranked the motor at higher speed that there was still no fuel being pumped.  I had a problem with no fuel being sucked up and it turned out that there was a crack in the metal braided hose just before the fuel pump - all I was doing was sucking in air.  Because of the braid I couldn't see that the hose was perished!
I replaced the fuel pump and blew out all the lines until I worked it out.  Take off the braided hose and hold and pressure test.  In my case all I had to do was hold my thumb over one end and blow in the other and I could hear the air rushing out.
I would suggest using a piece of plain rubber hose suitable for fuel useage with push on fittings like used on later models, but you should get a ball flare pressed onto your petrol line pipe.


Ken

[Rod]

I had the exact same problem earlier in the year. It turned out to be two problems in one. Firstly I replaced the battery which improved the cranking significantly but the problem then became intermittent (you have addressesd this however) I hadn't long fitted twin carbies so I thought this may have been the problem getting fuel. I was able to get the motor started by giving her a drink down the neck. Sometimes fuel would draw up, sometimes not. When I did get it running, on ocassions it seemed as if it was starved of fuel. Anyway, it got the better of me and I pulled the fuel pump apart. To my suprise one of the valves were stuffed. Replaced the valve (luckily I had some spares) and bingo I haven't had a problem touch wood since. I assumed the extra need for fuel by the carbies put undue stress on the pump. Assuming you have looked at all other possibilities this may be one worth looking at.
Rod

[spinach]

hi guys.

jumped under the car on the wknd and checked out the starter, i'm guessing the negative wire is the one that heads to the ignition switch? anyway, i un-did everything, gave it a clean, then re-seated all the wires. still no joy in regards to getting her to tunr over faster.

tonite is fuel pump nite, as soon as i get home from work I'm gonna yank the fuel pump off and look at it. looking at it is all I can do! How can I test out the pump to see if it's working proper? im guessing just plug the end on the carby side and try and pump some through mannually.


cheers for the advice everyone, would buy ya a beer if you were local!!

spin.

[craiga]

Spin,

The thinner wire that heads from the ignition switch to the starter is the positive wire that powers the solenoid. The starter grounds through its metal body to the engine. When you turn the key to the start position, +12VDC is applied to the solenoid which engages its drive gear into the flywheel ring gear. +12VDC is also applied to the starter "motor" via the heavy guage cable direct from the battery. You will usually find you need a cranking current of about 120 to 160 amps to start a car. This is why it is important that you not only make sure your battery is in good condition, but double sure your high current cables and connections are cleaned and tightened. When you release the key to the run position +12VDC is removed from the starter, the starter stops running and the drive gear disengages.

From watching this thread I reckon if the thing is still labouring when you turn it over I'd go looking for electrical problems in the high current circuit. Clean your battery lead connections, tighten them securely, and make really sure your battery ground cable is attached to clean metal on the block.

Good Luck,

Craig.

[ACE]

Hey Spinach
What you haven't told us. Is the EJ motor replacing an old motor that did start with that starter motor!
What i suggest is you take the starter motor out and take it to a auto electrician  and get him to bench test it. It should take him 5 minutes to do. (if you lived nearby i would do it for you).
I would sort out the starter motor problem first before starting on the fuel pump.
Regards ACE
P.S the wire that heads to the ignition switch is not a negative wire!  

[nicko]

just bringing this to the top for a read

[nicko]

boy am i glad i read this topic,after reading i changed positive lead and cleaned all terminals and posts with sand paper and reassembled,IT started first turn of the key although the original one that i replaced two days ago has a stuffed solonoid so i pulled it apart and cleaned brushes which had plenty of meat but one had welding spatter  from not touching the brass causing an arc ,just need to buy new solonoid and keep starter as a spare.
sometimes it pays to search old topics.

[chesy]

Guys,
there was a write up in the back few pages of a Street Machine issue based on a very similar problem.
Not sure of the month, but I will dig it out if you like, just let me know.
Basically they said electrical systems get tired with age, and lets face it, this car is no spring chicken.
Replaced all the wires in the subject car etc etc......and bingo, no more problems
Hope it helps.

[nicko]

thanks but after cleaning it now starts easily.
reguards Nick