Engine will not run

[Wookie66]

Hi o wise ones
my wagon was running and I had some issues with tuning and a mechanic came out and gave it a tune.
He showed me that the dizzy was not working as it should I’ve change the dizzy for a good second hand one and now won’t run
I have air, fuel, and spark and it will not run not even a misfire.
I put the other original back in and the same thing will not run not even a back fire not even looking to fire up.

I’ve checked anything even if the dizzy was out there would some sort of rough idling and backfire
Any ideas?
Thanks

[ardiesse]

Trevor,

I'm assuming anything could be wrong here -

1. Distributor cap off.  Turn the motor over (by hand or with the starter).  Does the distributor rotor turn?  No is very bad, and we'll come back to that later.  If yes, then step 2.

2. Remove nos. 2,3,4,5 and 6 spark plugs and open up the little timing mark cover on the bellhousing so you can see the flywheel teeth.  Turn the engine over by hand.  You'll feel when no. 1 cylinder is on the compression stroke.  When you feel compression, stop, and shine a light into the timing mark opening.  Turn the engine over slowly by hand until you see the "ball" on the ring gear line up with the pointer.  Don't move the engine after this.  If the distributor is timed correctly, the rotor should be in the "5 o'clock" position.  There's a little nick on the distributor body which shows the right position.  Is the rotor in the "5 o'clock" position?  If no, step 3.  If yes, step 4.

3.  Remove the cap and leads.  Disconnect the vacuum advance pipe.  Disconnect the black wire from the ignition coil (-) terminal.  Remove the 1/2" AF distributor lock bolt.  Pull the distributor out.  Loosen the clamp a little with a screwdriver.  Check that the points open and close when you turn the shaft.  Correct point gap is 0.012" - 0.016".  Make sure the rotor's correctly seated on the shaft, and only goes on one way.  Turn the rotor so it's at 7 o'clock.  Note which way the tang on the end of the distributor shaft is pointing.  Shine a light down the distributor hole in the block, and with a screwdriver, turn the oil pump so the slot is pointing the same way.  Aim the distributor so the the vacuum advance is pointing straight ahead, and slide the distributor into place.  It should slip straight home, with the rotor at 5 o'clock.  Loosely install the lock bolt, and connect the wire to the coil (-).

4. Pull the HT lead out of the coil and turn the ignition on.  Rotate the distributor clockwise about 30 degrees, and then rotate it back counterclockwise.  At some point you should hear a "splat" and see a little spark at the points when they open.  Turn the distributor back and forth slowly until you find the exact point where it goes "splat".  This is the correct timing point.  Tighten the clamp to the distributor body (long screwdriver through RHF wheel arch is best), and tighten the lock bolt.  Re-install the spark plugs.  Install vacuum advance pipe, cap and leads.  Firing order is 1-5-3-6-2-4 clockwise around the cap starting at the "5 o'clock" position.

5. Start engine.

If your distributor rotor doesn't turn when you crank the engine over (highly unlikely), you have timing gear troubles.
If the engine still won't start even though the ignition's working and properly timed, you have fuel system troubles.

Rob

[Wookie66]

Thanks Rob I’ll give it another go
Cheers

[Wookie66]

Hi Rob
Probably a stupid question to get to that little inspection plate I have to pull out my carpet pull up the lining and unseal the gearbox cover on the tunnel right?

Thats a pain in the back side is there a short cut?

Thanks
Trevor

[geebeefc]

Hi, the inspection plate talked about is in the engine bay directly behind the distributor. It is part of the plate fitted between engine block and front of gearbox. Cheers, Glenn

[Harv]

Sometimes (quite often) the little inspection plate cover is missing, and the oval-shaped hole that shows the flywheel/timing dot is open to the wind.

Cheers,
Harv

[my8thholden]

Wookie ..It has happened before , when all is correct , but just dead , wont fire or miss fire , IS THE ROTOR BUTTON sitting on your work bench ?..If its in the dissy ,The quickest and easiest check is ,I'll put myself in your shoes as if it were my problem ..I would take the air cleaner off , looking down the carby ,pump the throttle , you should see a squirt of fuel in the throat of the carby .OK i've got fuel ..take dissy cap off , rotor you can leave there or just take off for good vision , smallish electricians screwdriver needed , ie insulated shaft )..turn ignition on , open and close points , should spark at contacts , if they are in open position , can turn engine to close them or just bridge the contact end to establish spark ..IF you have fuel and spark then the causes multiply , as others have contributed ..( turn off the ignition )  If you DONT have fuel then follow from tank to carby , ie. test either side of fuel pump , test carby as above ..or at least needle and seat ..but you and your mechanic think its the ignition ..are all components in good order and correctly fitted , points installed correctly ? insulating washer in place between dissy body and points tail ? , rotor button is good , brass arm correct length , tang inside not broken off , spring loaded carbon contact inside dissy cap in line with HT lead to coil , dissy cap not a good one .if no spark at points as above , with the ignition on , and a small length of electrical wire , copper inner stripped a little , on the OUTSIDE of the dissy , put one end on the low tension wire from coil to points tail , and just scrape the wire on the body of dissy , if there is spark then its move to examining inside the dissy and onwards, if there is no spark there then its back down the line . ( turn ignition switch off ) , time to consider coil ? ignition switch itself ? all this is based on a stock standard FE or FC Holden ..if you wish can call me 0405 703 413 ...keep well Vern .

[my8thholden]

Wookie ..I might be wrong on on testing incoming wire on outside of dissy just with ignition on with dissy in any position , I have tested there with test lamp , but engine was running ,arcing the points with cap off is best ,..in any event please post what you find was the problem ..Vern

[my8thholden]

Hi Trevor ..have you found and solved your engine not starting problem ? ...cheers Vern .

[Wookie66]

Hi Vern
No I have not yet I’m giving it another go tomorrow I’ve the day off work.

Just as a back up has anyone used one of the electronic dizzy from eBay
HOLDEN FX FJ FE FC FB EK EJ  GREY MOTOR 12 VOLT ELECTRONIC DISTRIBUTOR EK976-N

The claim is fits in no prob?

[ardiesse]

If it's an eBay special, I'd be really surprised if you could just install one, connect it up, turn the key, and go.  Over a million Holdens ran perfectly with points distributors, and yours was one of them.  Find and correct the fault with your ignition system first, and only then make the change to an electronic distributor if you think it's worth it

Rob.

[Rod]

I concur with Rob.

I do have a pertronic module in my distributor now and wouldn't go back to points. It has been fantastic. Having said that I do have a spare distributor with points in the back of the ute adjusted and ready to go it the module decides to turn up its heels. If you are unable to get to the problem, I personally don't think electronic ignition will fix the issue as Rob has indicated.

I would encourage you to go through his steps thoroughly and you will eliminate the obvious issues.

I would be checking to see that the distributor isn't out by 180 degrees. About 15 years ago when I was still using my ute as a daily driver, I sheered the pin that holds the distributor gear in place. It was Christmas Eve and I had a 3 and half hour drive to get to my in-laws to play Santa with a trampoline for our kids. I just could not get the ute to start / run no matter what I tried after replacing the pin. I gave up after spending what felt like hours trying to get it to run. A good friend gave me a loan of his ute and I was fortunate enough to arrive in time to play Santa. I great mate of mine who was a mechanic said to me straight away - " The distribitor is out by 180 degress" Within in five minutes of my return home I had the old girl purring!

Go through Rob's steps and I am sure you will be right. When you get to the second last point that Rob makes in regards to timing gear troubles, I would also look to see if the distributor gear pin hasn't been sheared as was in my case above. I highly doubt this is the case as you have tried a second hand dissy but I would look to see that the original one isn't. My bet is the second hand one has been put in 180 degress out.

Sorry for being long winded.

Cheers Rod

[Wookie66]

Hi all
I was confident I had top dead centre on number one cylinder.
Seems I got a bit confused with the clock face reference I was assuming that closest to the fire wall was 12 o’clock and
that the rotor button should point towards number one cylinder this is not correct I was way off.

A call to Vern and going through all the steps mentioned at the start it finally clicked that 12 o’clock is closest to the engine and the small groove on the dizzy rim is 5 o’clock lined up the rotor button grove with the grove at 5 and moved the oil pump slot with a screwdriver to Match the dizzy shaft and magic it fell into place.

Of course then the plug leads had to be moved to match the firing order 153624.
Checked every thing was reconnected and it fired up and run first turn of the key.

Just some fine tuning required
Thanks to all that offered up advice it was appreciated cheers

[ardiesse]

Well done.  Next time you have to install a distributor it'll be easy-peasy.

Rob

[my8thholden]

Hi Trevor ..You are welcome any time ,Happy to help , I am pleased it was quite straight forward ..You told me you are going to clean the flywheel where the timing marks are , and seems like yours may be one of those that was not stamped well in the factory , you may see some thing you cant read clearly at the appropriate area in the flywheel. as the engine rotates normally , you should first see the embedded ball in the flywheel , followed by the letters UC , followed by a slot , looks like the letter I ....The ball is where number one should fire with NO vacuum advance .. The mark is " upper center " often known as TDC " top dead center " on number 1 ..
My particular flywheel is quite faint also ..keep well Vern .

[Harv]

Good news.

A dab of paint or nailpolish on the timing ball makes it a lot easier to read the timing mark.

Cheers,
Harv