Fitting Standard Front End

[Rod]

I have searched high and low within the forum and I know somewhere it is covered by Ken - but can't find it. I am about to fit a standard from end back in my FC ute and having a little trouble interpreting the instructions. I know many here have gone through the process so I hope I can get some help.

The manual talks about putting the rubbers in place, do the bolts up (ensuring short spacer is to the front - colored white I think) to 35 Ib with the weight on the wheels and measure the distance from the end of the bolt to the bottom of the metal plate supporting the lower rubber.

My first unknown is when they say weight of car I am assuming no motor as its impossible to have the motor in at this stage - correct???

The manual then talks about undoing the nuts and then doing them up to finger tight and once again measure. If it difference falls out a certain range the spacers need to be changed. The issue here is I am sure the spacers aren't available any more.

Finally it then says to do the nuts up again at 35 Ib. In light of the above I am missing something if the nut needs to be done up to the torque setting.

Since many of you have gone through this process can you please give me a heads up in layman's terms the best way of tackling this to ensure I will offer a good basis in ensuring I fall within the specs for wheel alignment - camber I think.

If you can help I would be most grateful. I have done all this work in taking the front end off and restoring the subframe and don't want to let myself down at this point.

Many Thanks in anticipation.

Rod

[fcwrangler]

Rod, My take on this would be the subframe can only go in one place as it is controlled by the four subframe boltd at the lower body & the six upper bolts & four screws that hold it to the firewall. The crossmember is again controlled by the four bolts & the outrigger. What the manual is talking about is the compression of the new mounting rubbers, by varing the lenght of the shim you get different comression of the mounts. This should not vary the alignmentall that much, it is suggested that you check the alignment when the car is back together just incase it is out. I,ve done this a few times way back when I had an fb & fe and swapped the complete front end over as I had a 186 & 4 speed in the fb then got hit up the rear, so I got the fe and swapped them over.
Regards Jim

[fcwrangler]

P.S. make sure you put some kind of sealer between the inner guards & the firewall.
Regards Jim

[Rod]

Jim,

Thanks for you answer. I suppose I need to clarify a little. The issue is the special spacers / shims that maybe needed. I assuming these can't be had any more. I am all good as far as the subframe is concerned, it is the fitment of the front end that I want to get right.

Do I just do each bolt up to 35lb and hope for the best. I would assume the rubbers at each point will vary with compression so this would put the camber angle out if there is an error from side to side.

Has anyone followed a procedure which is different to whats in the manual knowing you can't buy any of the bottom spacers / shims for adjustment of compression any more.

Thanks Again.

Rod

[fcwrangler]

Rod, do you have the old shims, if so you could take them to a machine shop and get some tube of the same size and cut it down , if you do,nt have them I have an old front end which still has the crossmember bolted in so it should have the shims in place.
Regards Jim

[mcl1959]

Rod, I have used the method in the manual but have had the luxury of a box full of different spacer washers of the various different lengths - they vary by a couple of mm each and I think there are 6 in the set identified by different colours.
That said, I don't think you should have much of an issue by putting back exactly what you took out of the car making sure you don't mix lengths left to right and dont get the short and long mixed up between front and rear. My feeling is that variations exist between subframe pressings and it is a guide for installing a front end on a new subframe rather than just installing new rubbers. The camber adustment can be affected by the set up of the front end and it can be difficult to get the correct alignment if the front end is rotated too far forward in the car. There will be people out there who will tell you they just "threw it all back together and its fine" but a little more care does need to be taken so I think you are on the right track asking the question.
I would tighten up the front end bolts as per the manual and make the measurements and if it is pretty close it will be Ok

Ken

[fe350chev]

Hi all

Just while you are on this, what is the sealant nowdays recommended to use between the firewall and subframe? Do you just use a liberal amount until it squishes out?

In relation to the front end, wouldn't simple geometry measurements from a suspension point to the subframe somewhere indicate that it is straight and not off camber. Also Ken, have you ever heard of anyone mucking around with front castor somehow by altering the angles of the front end?

Thanks Rod for bringing this up.

Cheers

Deano.

[Rod]

Dean,

See the following thread where I ask a similar question a couple of months back.

http://fefcholden.org.au/forum/index.php/topic,19669.0.html

I used the mastic (greyish in color) and was reasonable liberal making sure it was up to the edges. It is non hardening which was a bonus for me. The first go at putting the subframe in I couldn't get the bolts lined. Had a go 24 hours later and it was still gouey and right to go.

Once on I sealed the seams (upper ones predominately) with a bead of silafex.

Cheers

Rod

[mcl1959]

Yes - one of the geometry checks is that the front tongue lines up square in the bracket and the rubber is evenly spaced around the edges. You can increase or decrease camber with the front end but you need to compensate with the rubber bushes around the front tongue.

Ken

[Rod]

Hi All. Ready now to put front end on. Thanks again Ken for your input but I have a little dilemma re the spacers. I have found some long tube off an old front end and feel comfortable in making up different lengths as to follow the instructions in the manual. For those interested Ken was spot on as always in regards to 6 different lengths. White (Standard), Black (Standard) and others to adjust Red, Yellow, Green and Blue. I am unsure of the lengths of the White and Black but the others are as follows: Red (0.78in or 19.812mm), Yellow (0.72in or 18.288mm), Green (0.66in or 16.764mm) and Blue (0.6in or 15.24mm). As mentioned I am unsure of the Black and White lengths but the manual says the black is 0.06in shorter than the white. They maybe shorter or longer than the others.

My difficulty now is that the spacers I have taken out aren't the  standard ones. In actual fact the paint is still on them after 50+ years - Green and Red. I am ok with this. Here lies my problem. The Red ones were on the front and rear mounts of the drivers side while the shorter ones, Green were on the passenger side mounts. I am fairly confident that the front end hasn't been taken off in the past. The manual says that the shorter ones go on the front mounts. This isn't the case with mine. Should I reassembly with the greens to the front and reds to the back?

The other query I have is, if there is a difference in the compression from left to right as outlined in the manual should I use different size shims from left to right.ie: mix up the colors.

Thanks again in anticipation.

Rod

[mcl1959]

The reference to the shorter at the front and longer at the back is for the long spacers. The shorter long spacer is black and goes to the front and the longer long spacer is white and goes to the rear.   Good so far 

There are 4 very short spacers - red, yellow, green and blue which are the adjustment shims. These can go front and rear or left and right as in your car - this is no problem. Instal as per the manual and make the measurements and if it is OK, all is well.

Ken

[fe350chev]

You make it sound so simple when you know what your doing 

[Rod]

Thanks as always Ken. I was getting confused between the spacers and shims as you highlighted. I think I am right to go now. When it says take the weight onto the front end, does the motor need to be in. The original manual doesnt mention it but the Gregory's one talks about supporting the front of the motor. As I am using new rubbers would it be good practice to to retorque and measure again after a period of time once the rubbers have settled.Thanks again for all your help. ROD