Engine Freshen Up to this ........

[Rod]

Part 2 Continued from previous post.
Hi All,

I write this to note some finding I have had with the clutch saga.

Firstly, I will discuss the spigot bearing. When I put the spigot bearing in, I installed it up to where the taper at the opening of the crankshaft ended ie: straightened and ran parallel to the shaft. This was done so because this is where it was on an old shaft. In reading many posts here and over at the FB EK Forum, one issue that was presented for the clutch not disengaging was due to the spigot shaft not being driven in far enough and possibly mating with the taper on the end of the input shaft. With this in mind I did drive it in further when I had the motor out the second time (I think) and I had my reservations about doing so. To investigate this on this occasion, I took the clutch off the flywheel, reinstalled the gearbox to the engine and took off the upper inspection plate so I could investigate the bell housing to see the input shaft mating with the spigot bearing. The photos below aren’t great but does give some insight.

These photos show the spigot driven in a far as it can go into the crankshaft. Ie: past the taper point I spoke about above.



As you can see, the spigot bearing is past the contact surface of the end of the input shaft. While the spigot was new, I removed it and replaced it with another that was included in the Exedy kit. While I forgot to take a photo after doing so, I installed the spigot up to the end of the taper in the shaft and I can report that more of the mating surface with the shaft is now occurring and it is a significant distance from the taper on the input shaft ie: Binding won’t occur with the input shaft if the spigot is installed up the end of the taper in the crankshaft.

Now for the clutch fork. After replacing the fork and putting in the Exedy kit, the movement possible for adjustment of the fork is significant. The photo below shows this prior to installation, but I can report that there is a lot of thread now showing for potential adjustment (better than my ute). This could be just the fork or a combination of this with the new clutch kit.

[Rod]

Part 3 – Continued from previous post
The following photos are for reference purposes of the Exedy kit (GMK6021). The first photo is of the pressure plate which is identical to an OEM plate. The second picture compares the OEM clutch plate against the Exedy plate. Interestingly there is only one significant difference, and it is not the diameters of the plates. The only notable difference is the replacement has six springs rather than the four from the OEM. Interestingly the Exedy kit is advertised as being 200mm, not the 8 inch (203.2mm) of the OEM. While it was a little difficult to measure the plate as I don’t have a big enough caliper / vernier and the centre hub gets in the way, I can confidently say the plate measures about 204mm, definitely not 200mm.




Finally, to the throughout bearing. The throughout bearing of the Exedy is identical to the OEM bearing for all measurements in a longitudinal direction. Ie: total length but more importantly the distance between the fork contact surface and the face of the bearing. Now for the differences. The OEM and Clutch Industries have the same diameter of the face of the bearing, while the Exedy is smaller to these. I ran with the Exedy one even though the face was smaller.

Top – Exedy, Middle- Clutch Industries, Bottom – OEM


Left – Exedy, Middle- Clutch Industries, Right – OEM


I think this completes all my observations of my clutch experiences. Jolls I am with you. This forum is an absolute ripper. I know I have received much more than what I have been given. In part this thread is not about documenting my journey but about hopefully giving something to others in their journeys. I am not going to name names because I am surely going to miss someone but there are some significant people on this forum and over at the FB EK forum who give much more than they receive. They are the salt of the earth, and I am extremely grateful for what they have offered me and others. I am sure you have learnt who these members are.

It does sadden me somewhat that the traffic and contributions on this forum has been waning overtime. We can put this down to social media I feel. While I don’t do Facebook for personal reasons, I am able to see the posts in that medium. To me it is not a patch on what this forum is. At least there are years of wisdom that have been imparted and shared on this forum that can be searched into the future.

Can I pass on my sincere thanks to those that have assisted me on these clutch issues. I think I can now install the grill and bonnet and start to enjoy the ride even though there are a lot of little things to do. I will update this thread with what I did in getting the front seat serviceable.

Until then. Have a ripper.

Cheers Rod

[Rod]

Hi Clay,

Thanks for your response. I know I will have leaks in the long run, but I am surprised thus far. I was anticipating a rear main leak. Someone once said there is something wrong with a grey that doesn't leak from the rear main. Secondly, I was expecting one form the rear of the gearbox. So far so good. Thirdly, I thought a leak from the diff would have been the first spot as its had oil for a while now (yes, I have checked the box and diff for oil - it wouldn't be the first time I have missed something). I would be lying if I didn't have a leak or two. The sump plugs of the motor and gearbox had a slight leak. While I used new copper washers, I used Rob's technique of annealing the copper and now those leaks have ceased. Time will tell.

In my previous posts I should have mentioned more about the tappet cover. I did use a very good used one I had with the view, once I have given the motor a good run, I would adjust the tappets and put the new gasket in. While I had flattened the contact surface of the cover before installing, I don't think it was as flat as it should be at the rear. What I did was removed the gasket, placed the cover back on and carefully flattened the mating surface with a wood drift against the surface of the head. It did need flattening. However, I noted another possible cause for the leak. The head has been shaved and with this, the side plate sits above the flat surface of the head. I think this is preventing the cover to be torqued down as far as it should on the driver's side. I will know more once I put a new gasket on after adjusting the tappets. Thanks for the tip about gluing the gasket to the head. I don't think you can get neoprene gaskets for greys.

Thank you, Clay. This thread has just clicked over to the 8th page. I remember posting on your thread just as you were ticking over to 100 pages. Gee, you aren't far off 300 now. What a wealth of knowledge you have shared with so many people on your journey which is invaluable. I don't think I am going to get to 10 let alone 100 or 300. Thank you.

Have a ripper. Cheers Rod

[Errol62]

Your perseverance is bloody admirable Rod. I agree whole heartedly with your comments regarding the forum and also social media. However, I wouldn’t rate the sheer volume of my endless blathering too highly on the value of information contained. While there may be some gems in there, the amount of sifting required to obtain them detracts significantly from their value. None the less I hope they are entertaining.

Keep on posting mate. Let’s keep this forum thing alive.


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[Rod]

As the title to this thread says: Engine Freshen Up to this........"



and this



and this




I got wheel alignment done today after I did my best in doing so before taking her in. In driving her beforehand I felt she drove better than she did before the refresh. I said to "old mate" I would be interested how far off I was. Before he any took any measurements or adjustments, he said it won't be far off. I asked him how he came to that conclusion. He said as soon as he pulled the pins out of the turn plates, he knew it was close as they came out easy. Apparently if adjustments are needed the pins are tight in the turn plates. In the end he had to only adjust the toe slightly. A delight to drive even in the hurricane winds that we were having today!

This thread won't be the end of the refresh. I have all these little jobs to do now - quarter vent rubbers, bailey channels, door strips, door trims back on, strip / clean of the underfloor and seal and on and on. Part of me is now regretting getting her to driving stage again because these little jobs more than like will get put off. Oh, I forgot an exhaust leak which I was sure was at the tailpipe join but maybe not. That is a priority even though its not significant. I've done tappets last weekend, but I have one or two still with a tick.

Anyway, enough of my rambling.

Have a ripper. Cheers Rod

[Errol62]

👍👍👍


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[Jolls]

Great result and even better to see another one back on the road.

[Rod]

Hi All,
It’s been a little while since I have last posted. Well since having the old girl back on the road, I thought it would be just a case of getting in and driving. I was wrong. It has been a time of attending to teething problems.

Firstly, as I had made all new brake and fuel lines, I had to attend to leaks. The brake lines were a matter of nipping up the fittings and the leaks ceased. As for the fuel lines this was a little more complicated. I nipped up the join halfway along the inner sill panel and thought I was good to go. Not so. I struggled to get fuel into the pump bowl and then realised the flexible line from the main fuel line to the pump was sucking air. Made up a new one and thought (you guessed it), I would be good to go. Hey, hold on Rod, more challenges to come. After doing this I was met with a strong smell of petrol. Now I had covered the main areas where air was being sucked, this put pressure on the final join- the pipe going into the petrol tank. This was now leaking significantly. Nipping the joint up didn’t work and I had to remove the pipe and remake the flare.

The fuel issues continued. While all the leaks and points of air sucking had been rectified, the fuel pump always needed significant time in order to suck the fuel up from the tank and would always drain back to the tank between drives. I pulled the pump apart and found a faulty valve and this solved the fuel issues or so I thought. More to come shortly.

The next issue to present which hadn’t been there during the early periods of the run in  was the generator light coming on. This wasn’t the normal flutter we are all familiar with. It was spasmodic. The light would come on constantly at unexpectant times at all engine speeds and then would go out and then when I thought I was good to go, on she would come again. I found a loose fitting on the generator and this didn’t fix it. I then cleaned all the joints up but still no luck. I reluctantly took the generator off as it had only been professionally reconditioned not too long before I took the car off the road. What I found was that one of the brush springs was not seated correctly. Rather than pushing down from the top, the spring was slightly off centre and pushing from the side of the brush which caused the brush not to seat correctly on the commutator. I suspect that it didn’t cause any issues previously, but through pure coincidence in the timing of the issue, the brush had worn to the point where contact was lost causing the light to come on.

Now was the time to enjoy the ride. This was short lived. After a period of time, while the old girl was purring, I would get to about 55-60 mph and the motor would “hunt”. If I pulled the choke out very slightly this would go away. For me this indicated the motor running lean at those speeds. I nipped up manifold and carby nuts and bolts with no improvement. While I had no issue at idling, I did note that the throttle shaft had wear. I purchased an oversized shaft and reamed the throttle body to take then new shaft. Still the issue persisted.

 I removed the carby again, to find some minor warpage with the main carby body and air horn. I carefully lapped these on a piece of flat glass but no, there was no improvement. Next step was to take the manifold/s off. There was leakage but this was evident with the exhaust ports. Closer inspection indicated that there was some warpage in the manifold, particularly the exhaust one. The inlet manifold mated up to the head perfectly, so I wasn’t confident that there was sucking of air at these locations. I did a backyard, agricultural, outback shoring up of the warpage using a Whetstone and got it very good with a straight edge across all ports. I didn’t have a new gasket, and I was impatient, so I made one out of an exhaust sheet I have had for many years. This is thicker than the aftermarket gasket and I am sure any residue warpage will be accounted for by the thickness of the gasket. Anyway, you know the story. I reassembled and the “hunting” was still present.

[Rod]

Continued....

 I removed the carby again, to find some minor warpage with the main carby body and air horn. I carefully lapped these on a piece of flat glass but no, there was no improvement. Next step was to take the manifold/s off. There was leakage but this was evident with the exhaust ports. Closer inspection indicated that there was some warpage in the manifold, particularly the exhaust one. The inlet manifold mated up to the head perfectly, so I wasn’t confident that there was sucking of air at these locations. I did a backyard, agricultural, outback shoring up of the warpage using a Whetstone and got it very good with a straight edge across all ports. I didn’t have a new gasket, and I was impatient, so I made one out of an exhaust sheet I have had for many years. This is thicker than the aftermarket gasket and I am sure any residue warpage will be accounted for by the thickness of the gasket. Anyway, you know the story. I reassembled and the “hunting” was still present.

I resorted in taking the carby off again and found some warpage in the bakelite insulator and the main body spacer. I lapped these true and you guessed it – “hunting” persisted.

I was resigned to pulling the carby off again to double recheck the float level and accelerator pump travel (there has been very good squirt). I had previously set these but who knows….. However, I held off and decided to read Harv’s Carby bible from head to toes again. What stuck me was that the Power Bypass Jet might not be the right size and even though the Main jet was 051, with different octane fuels now compared to when the old girls rolled of the factory line, may be a slightly larger jet was needed. Rather than take the air horn off to check, float level, accelerator travel and Power Jet, it was much easier to take the Main Jet out and replace it with a larger one. With the many jets I have, the majority are 51’s and the next largest was a 58, being far too big. I then did some research on the approximate metric size drill to bring a 51 up to 52.

0.051 (1.2954 mm)
0.052 (1.3208 mm)

I was able to get a 1.3mm drill which is so close to a 51 than a 52 but I thought I would give it a try. Bingo!!! Opening the 51 this small margin has rectified the issue. Wow- the old girl runs beautifully now (or should I say for the moment). I must clarify before the carby was put on the motor, I fully tore it down and given her a though clean. I also put all parts through an ultrasonic cleaner including the jets. On the last dissemble, I did clean again and using air, cleaned out all ports, including the main jet. I am not sure why removing such a small amount from the jet would yield such results. I am only speculating on reasons but I’m not complaining, so now I can enjoy the ride (for the moment).

Oh, I forgot, the tappet cover gasket is leaking again – another job. Oh, and while I am at it, what about adjusting the valves again. Oh – should I retorque the head with the new redesigned Rob and Harvs head gasket? I can’t find a definitive answer on this one.

If you got to this point, well done in getting through all my rambling. To be honest, I wasn’t going to give an update for things so trivial but for me it is all about keeping the traffic alive on this forum. We all know this is becoming a challenge.

All the best. Have a ripper. Cheers Rod

[Jolls]

Great run down on what I am likely to face and some practical advice on fixing it. Great read from my perspective. Cheers

[graham_fuller]

Thanks Rod appreciate the effort and all the tech advice.

[ardiesse]

Rod,

I have exactly the same "hunting" problem with my grey FC, ever since I started driving it.  It's apparent with a 51 main jet, and goes away with a 52.  The car also has an off-idle hesitation, which I can compensate for by pulling the choke out a millimetre or two (no idea why this would work - maybe some magic with idle discharge holes.)  As far as I can work out, it's an engine-specific problem.  If I put the FC's carburettor on my Humpy, the Humpy runs like a clock.

So thanks for the 1.3 mm drill suggestion.

Also - 149 EHs were prone to lean off-idle mixtures.  NASCO suggested a work-around, to drill the upper idle discharge hole out from #70 to #69.  Read the May 1964 "Accelerator" at hrc.au

Rob

P.S. - you may retorque your head bolts, but I don't think it's necessary.

[Errol62]

Great work Rod. I was willing to bet your hunting was being caused by fuel starvation due to an issue with the fuel pump or line.


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[Rod]

And the journey continues. After the initial 200-300 odd mile run in, I dropped the run in oil, adjust tappets (again) and ensured the tappet cover wasn't leaking at the rear. Decided to take the old girl for a good run to Charlton to visit an Aunty and Uncle. Incidentally I purchased the car from them when I was a young fella in 1987 or should I say, they gave her to me. The last time the car had been there was after the initial resto 33 years ago.

The trip was about a 220-mile round trip. Gee it was great to drive and just enjoy the experience. No problems (or I thought) for the journey. Decided to take some pics outside the Old Holden Dealership.











Damn Cruze ruined the pictures!

Had a slower trip back to avoid "skippy" but it just added to the experience.

Gave her a check over yesterday and damn, leaky rear main (or I thought) and the coolant was down a reasonable amount. Could see the coolant but it did take 3/4 of a litre. Bugger. I thought of the head / head gasket. Knowing that she purred, I took myself back to the basics. I remembered some time ago in the Ute I had an issue with the radiator cap. I got my pressure tester out and low and behold, the cap would barely hold 2 pounds. I cross checked by testing the one on the Ute and it was holding 6-7 pound. Purchased a new one today (yes Tridon, not CPC which the problem cap was, like it was with the Ute years ago. It held pressure nicely. Took her for a run and when I go back, I had coolant loss out the overflow and wasn't took worried as I may have overfilled the system slightly. What was interesting, was once I pulled the cap, I had the coolant level was the same as before the run. I suspect I now have an air block somewhere. After another good run to open the thermostat, I did park the old girl on an incline and let her run for a while with the cap off to hopefully purge the air. Wasn't successful. Getting back to the old cap. I only had myself to blame as I should have purchased a new one rather than use the one, I had. I identified it was an issue almost nine years ago in this thread- https://forum.fefcholden.club/index.php?topic=25724.msg162196#msg162196

Now to the "rear main" leak. On my earlier run-in period, I did have a leak, but this was from the tappet cover gasket leaking. I checked this again and I could not feel any oil at the back of the motor, so was resigned to the rear main now leaking. Ok by me as if I didn't have a leak, I would be worried. Haha. On close expectation I could see a film of oil near the driver side rear of the motor near the timing inspection plate and it was along the moving downwards along the gearbox inspection plate. A job for another time but it must be coming from the side cover of the distributor.

Have a ripper. Rod

[Errol62]

Old cars mate……..


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[Jolls]

And the journey continues. After the initial 200-300 odd mile run in, I dropped the run in oil, adjust tappets (again) and ensured the tappet cover wasn't leaking at the rear. Decided to take the old girl for a good run to Charlton to visit an Aunty and Uncle. Incidentally I purchased the car from them when I was a young fella in 1987 or should I say, they gave her to me. The last time the car had been there was after the initial resto 33 years ago.

Gave her a check over yesterday and damn, leaky rear main (or I thought) and the coolant was down a reasonable amount. Could see the coolant but it did take 3/4 of a litre. Bugger. I thought of the head / head gasket. Knowing that she purred, I took myself back to the basics. I remembered some time ago in the Ute I had an issue with the radiator cap. I got my pressure tester out and low and behold, the cap would barely hold 2 pounds. I cross checked by testing the one on the Ute and it was holding 6-7 pound. Purchased a new one today (yes Tridon, not CPC which the problem cap was, like it was with the Ute years ago. It held pressure nicely. Took her for a run and when I go back, I had coolant loss out the overflow and wasn't took worried as I may have overfilled the system slightly. What was interesting, was once I pulled the cap, I had the coolant level was the same as before the run. I suspect I now have an air block somewhere. After another good run to open the thermostat, I did park the old girl on an incline and let her run for a while with the cap off to hopefully purge the air. Wasn't successful. Getting back to the old cap. I only had myself to blame as I should have purchased a new one rather than use the one, I had. I identified it was an issue almost nine years ago in this thread- https://forum.fefcholden.club/index.php?topic=25724.msg162196#msg162196

Now to the "rear main" leak. On my earlier run-in period, I did have a leak, but this was from the tappet cover gasket leaking. I checked this again and I could not feel any oil at the back of the motor, so was resigned to the rear main now leaking. Ok by me as if I didn't have a leak, I would be worried. Haha. On close expectation I could see a film of oil near the driver side rear of the motor near the timing inspection plate and it was along the moving downwards along the gearbox inspection plate. A job for another time but it must be coming from the side cover of the distributor.

Have a ripper. Rod

I'm envoius of your problems Rod - I am well off getting to that stage. I know = patience is the key. If only you could earn time like $! I need heaps mote of it.