FE-FC Holden Discussion Forum

I am thinking of putting a red 6 into my fc ute.

I also have a set of triple su's or a twin carby set up. Will the triples fit in the engine bay?

Have a celica 5 speed will it fit tunnel without mods?

Last brain teaser what would you do to the engine for power but be driveable. :)

Triple SU's need firewall mods
Celica 5 speed will need at least the crossmember under the front floor cut out and if you want to get the engine up a bit higher you will need to mod the floor as well.
Engine mods depend on how much money you wan to spend.  A little will get you a worked head, extractors and a decent carb like a Holley.  A lot will get you a fully built bottom end with all the above as well, or injection, a turbo or a supercharger.  The engine can still be very driveable depending on how radical you make it.

Ken

triple su's may require firewall modifications depending on the manifold used, i had a set that cleared fine but they were stolen, have a feeling the new owner (theif) may have wasted them on a torana.
for power replace the 149 with a 179-186.
As mcl1959 says, depends on your budjet, you could put on some extractors, 2bbl carb and hei dissy for about $250 or you could do a full rebuild and easily exceed $8000 on parts and machining.
When asking what to do on a forum it is good to give a idea of what you will be able to do, what parts you have, what you want from your motor, how much time you have and most importantly how much cash, everything costs 4x the original estimate and takes 4x longer.
if you dont give a budget and time limit one person will tell you to fit a sports air filter and the next will tell you to add nitrous with forged pistons under a twin cam head with a whipple supercharger on the side.

triples are on a redline manifold bought them of a guy who had them in a EH

Already have a 192 but dont wont the rego hassels

picking up 149 on weekend was thinking of useing head of 192 and  hie dissy i already have and putting roller rockers on

also what would you do to the bottom end


also what gearbox would you use whithout to much mods ???                                  

most of the manifolds i have seen look home made, the runners from 5 & 6 should lean forward, maybe someone has a set the can give you a angle from.
alternatives are to modify the firewall or cut a section out and weld in a box for a recess to take the carbs, also, I have seen engines stiing forward on the crossmember with the radiator in front of the radiater support panel and cut into the bonnet catch but its not a real good way to do it.
AFAIK In NSW as far as rego hassles go, really the 149 requires the same as the 192, maybe disc brakes, seat belts and demister could be left off.
You still really are supposed to get it engineered for the new engine mounts, you will also need to go to a blue slip station for a engine number change, if you change the box you will need a engineers certificate for the rear gearbox mount, if you modify the tunnel that will need to be on a report as well as you have changed the structure and probably relocated it to. if you put on later model brakes that is supposed to be engineered as well.
149 would be fully legal if it mounted the same as a grey becuase it is within the CI limit for the car but you have to sit it on different mounts in different spots.

HEI for sure, don't know that the expense of roller rockers can be justified.  Very unlikely that the triples will fit without some massaging of the firewall.

Gearbox? Few options without surgery.  With a 149 keeping the crashbox is quite viable, and requires no surgery.  Only other box that fits without enlarging the tunnel is Datsun 1600, but that still requires rear support, and a bit of stuffing around getting the master/slave cylinders paired right.  From previous experience, I can tell you that you'll get sick of pulling this box out: this combo needs a 180B clutch and you'll go through them like nobody's business!

If you put bucket seats in you're supposed to get them engineered (in NSW anyway) so you might be up for the same hassle either way.

Hope that helps,
RET

for the bottom end it depends on what you want to spend, I would at least give it rings, bearings, hone, balance and a cam ($200) alloy gear set($50), gasket set, and brass welsh plugsyou will need to get the cam bearings and balance($180) done at a engine shop.
may also be a good idea to put a kit ($60) through the oil pump.
that should keep it going for a few years in a 149.
just for a idea of whats in a supercharged in a hottie, I had my bottom end decked, O ringed, black rods shot peened, closed & honed, new cam and bearings, ACL tri metal bearings (race series), ARP con rod bolts, ARP main stud kit, straight cut gear set, ACL race series pistons with further machining in the dish, black 3.3 crank machined for 179 and balanced.
If you are on a tight budget and the bottom end is in good condition you could just add a alloy gear set (for reliability) and gaskets and welsh plugs, maybe clean the chambers in the head with a wire wheel and re seat the valves

Hey RET, my brother had to get a engineers report on a suzuki swift becuase he fitted a gear knob that didnt display a H pattern, it was the only way he could avoid constantly being defeacted, guess thats what you get for driving a suzuki.

sorry the dissy is not a hei it a brand called latch

the 149 i am picking is a goer i wont the 149 to go hard but no injection

the 192 head looks like it has big valves
with the crash box would i have to change bell housing

about time when ever it is done :-/

This is just my humble opinion - but what on earth is the phobia with engineers reports?
Why on earth would you build a sub standard - under performing car because you didn't want to get a $400 engineers report?
If you're  going to drive the car on the road why not do the thing properly.
I built my car exactly how I wanted it with 186 and auto and it is great cruiser - I love it.  I couldn't put up with driving it if I cut corners just so I wouldn't have to get a report.
Oh and for the record - my car passed first time through engineering with no work needed to be done.
Just shows if you build it right the first time, you won't have any hassles.

Ken

guess it will cost more to get a 149 to go like a 186 than it will to get a engineers report for a 186, you will need a HR front end , electric wipers, seatbelts, hr rear end, disc brake booster, eh sump and pick up if not aleady fitted to red motor, and a demister.
down the track the 186 would be more worth doing up and will be more streetable than a 49 with the same power, you could even inject the 186 for a couple of hundred or just use a 4bbl.
if you are on a tight budget or dont want seatbelts you could just add some bolt ons to the grey.

If you go with the 149 motor the 149 head will probably work better than the 179 head- even with smaller valves. The 179 head has bigger combustion chambers and would reduce the compression ratio. In fact, XU1 motors achieved their higher compression by using the 149 head.

Dave

No.  That's not even an option on pre-EJ crash-boxes (bellhousing is integral part of gearbox casting 48-EK), but to answer your question a crash-box bolts straight up to red or grey.

FWIW I agree with Ken on the subject of getting engineered, although I will say in NSW it pays to shop around.  Prices can vary enormously.

cheers
RET

thanks for your help have decied to go with 186 5 speed.

 Just one more question, would one of the hatfield superchargers kit   fit in fc engine bay :o

One of the superchargers would fit (possible slight modification to drivers side skirt) but bear in mind that its a blow through system, and they dont work aswell as youd think on a virtually standard motor.

AFIK the kits fit, You will get better performance using a vk efi inlet manifold, if you go this way it takes some of the cost of the kit but you need to modify the firewall like if you were putting in triple SU's but not as deep, avoid high compression and maybe fit a decompression plate, you will also need a good clutch and may need a HR sway bar, also the bigger the exhaust the better and extractors should also be fitted but if you go withe the vk manifold, the vk manifold is to suit a 12 port head but  they have been modified before to fit a red head, they may require specific extractors to fit the fc, other than that you could fit a black efi head, they have good flow even standard but require some holes to be drilled in the block, this will take a vk manifold as is, you will just need to plug some holes in it and get extractors to suit a 12 port in a early holden.
if you are going to do a rebuild go for black motor conrods, a acl race series kit with dished pistons, if budget allows use a acl copperhead head gasket.
A good harmonic balancer is also a good idea.
you will also need to fit a electric fuel pump as the kit afiak bolts onto the engines fuel pump hole.
If you go to the vk manifold you will need to relocate the battery to the back of the car. if you have a booster at the front of the engine bay you will need to change it, relocate it under the gauard or go for a firewall mounted booster like a old commodore one.