FE-FC Holden Discussion Forum

Ok, I started on the wagon  ;D ;D  :P
I took the seats out to have a look at how bad it was, I suppose to a novice like me it looks abit ordinary...
I will highlight the areas that I'm most concerned with... ;)
Just the main floor area
(http://tinypic.com/euhctg.jpg)

R/H side centre
(http://tinypic.com/euhd83.jpg)

Rear - both sides
(http://tinypic.com/euhdu0.jpg)

Now the front areas is where I'm most concerned, I've no idea so any replies telling me the good and the bad is really appreciated... ::) :P
Left front
(http://tinypic.com/euhdzb.jpg)

Right front
(http://tinypic.com/euhe7l.jpg)
(http://tinypic.com/euheeq.jpg)

If ya need more pics, just ask

Nick

Nick
     Looks like you are up for 4 new floor pans, under floor support rails. Could you post some photos from under the wagon. eg where the subframe mounts, cargo area, subframe rail under the radiator.
Glenn

mate im afraid you need more than new floor pans thats some serious rust which almost certainly goes down into your sills and subframe,but hey you have plenty of good help available on this forum,you are going to have to get some one here to have a close look at car to work out how you proceed or not.

Nick, try not to look at the whole job at once, this is daunting.
Concentrate on a corner at a time.
Leave the sills in place at first and just cut out the floor in the shape of the new floor pan.  Once cut out you can fully assess the structural members under each floor panel
Repair each structural member as required, then weld in the floor panel.  Don't weld the floor to the sill panel if there is any doubt that the sill panel will need to be replaced.
Then proceed to the next corner ;)

Ken

Thanks for the info and support guys,,,a little at a time and she will be fine..... ;D I will do a bit more investigating tomorrow and give it a really good clean out.
On a brighter note, I bought one old holden key at the Jindara swap meet last week for a 50c, popped it in to the ignition and she just slipped into lock...slid a piece of wire in and out popped the cylinder...woo hoo
Funny how such a little thing like that was bugging me when you see what I have ahead of me....lol  ;D
Until the next update
Nick

Nick
    For what it's worth I have seen worse floor pans and have repaired them. Listen to what Ken has said as this is the best way to approach a job the seems doomed from the get go. Heaps of photos of what you have and if you can get heaps of photos of what it will look like finished, these can be used for reference points if you are away from the job for any period of time and need to freashen up the old memory bank. From what I can see in the photos you have supplied the rust repair floor section that you can buy are not going to cover the whole of the area that you will need to replace. It's always good if you can make a template of the piece you need to replace, this can be made of cardboard. Bend it cut and tape it into the shape you need as cardboard is a lot easier to work with than metal and cheaper. When you have made your template with all the cuts and nicks and folds just flatten it out and trace onto your metal. I hope to be coming down to Victoria in January to see my Brother and my Mummy so hopefully I will also have time to catch up with you and I am also hoping to catch up with Rusty the Phantom. But just one step at a time old friend and remember we are always here to help you when you need it. In saying WE I mean the 1000+ forum members as thats what we do help each other out when we can. ;)

Cheers
Sarge

Thanks Sarge, and everyone
I'm not too daunted by it at all...is that stupidity  :o
All part of the process, I mean for a $100 bucks I have to get some pain...Already had a tussle with the old girl...skinned two knuckles and busted my head on the steering wheel...but we are all good now.... ;)
I'm just taking a leaf out of the A-Team and McGyver...
I'm gona make something useful outta nothing... :P

Nick

Bit of cutting here and there - right side  ;)
I pretty much tapped away with a screw driver finding soft spots then moved out about 2 inchs(more in some places  ::)) to hard metal and cut to that point.

(http://tinypic.com/evb14g.jpg)

(http://tinypic.com/evb1o6.jpg)

These are of the front RH side, all the metal is solid, above and below even though it looks abit rusty - I belted crap out of it to check  ;D
(http://tinypic.com/evb282.jpg)

My only concern is that part at the bottom of the A pillar?
(http://tinypic.com/evb1xe.jpg)

The sill seems to be solid also...gave it a good belting
(http://tinypic.com/evb21l.jpg)

base of B pillar seems to be rusty and the sill is showing signs but will check more tomorrow
(http://tinypic.com/evb2j8.jpg)
(http://tinypic.com/evb401.jpg)

and last bit for now, where I'm pointing was floating? There is no weld what so ever..it didnt seem right to me so I thought I would check.
(http://tinypic.com/evb41y.jpg)

Nick

Nick A & B pillars dont look too bad.  just cut out rusty piece and make a cardboard template as suggested earlier, then weld it in.
Underfloor members all look to be in good order from the photos.  That rear floor one does float just like you have seen.  This is just the way it is.

Ken

Nick
     Yeah what Ken said, all looks real good, that "A" pillar looks lovely compared to the last car I had in. At least you have metal to start with.
      Now that the Wagon is under way why not move this post down to Members Real Cars, with all the other great Resto Jobs that are under way at the moment.

Cheers
Sarge

Hey Nick...
I don't envy you mate, but good on 'ya for tackling the job!!!

Great pics!!

Good luck with it, looking good so far! Keep us posted!

Cheers
Les....

Thanks Les....
Having a ball ... ;D
Left side...not as bad on the left rear... ;)
(http://tinypic.com/ezrgo2.jpg)
(http://tinypic.com/ezrgrd.jpg)

Front left side A pillar and area needs a bit of love though...
(http://tinypic.com/ezrgx2.jpg)
(http://tinypic.com/ezribl.jpg)
Might needsome help with this one  ;) ;)

And new R/H  floor pans ready to go in when it's all nice and clean
(http://tinypic.com/ezrigj.jpg)

Nick

p.s I'll let the powers that be decide where this post should sit...I think it may get quite large  ;D ;D

wow nick  :o :o :o :o

youve got some work ahead of you  :-X

Nick
    Are you going to repaint the wagon the same colour? I only ask this so as I can picture the woodgrain dash with the white background. ;D
     Dont get to ahead of yourself with the cutting, When your welding the floor section back into place remember to only tack them lightly along the inner sill. This way as Ken said if the sill does need to come out you dont have to recut it. Also it will put back a bit of support as you weld the rest of the section into place. If you are going to mig weld the section back into place try to avoid long runs of welding and just stich weld move from side to side, this will keep metal warping down, as it give the metal time to cool down while you are welding the other side. If I am telling you how to suck eggs just say so, (as I am pretty thick skinned) for I dont know if you can weld or if you have done this type of job before. ;D I do know you are Irish that why I have typed this reply very slowly. ;) ;D

Cheers
Sarge

I have to weld it  ??? :o :o :o shit....
There goes the liquid nails idea..... :P

nah thanks for that Sarge...I'm just going along slowly slowly...have done a little welding..but only arc...so this is all new to me...being very careful with what cuts I've made so far...I will measure it all up and cut exact (ta Jamie!) when it's all ready to be glued..oooops welded  ;D
Some great websites out there with resto projects showing repairs to A pillars and the like....pictures help heaps cos I read tooooo slowly  ;D ;D
As for the colour...she is staying stock. well as much as we can keep her anyway....

Nick

Nick I agree with Sarge, you need to get some welding done rather than keep cutting, hence my original suggestion of doing one corner at a time.  You have now weekened the body structure and it WILL move and sag.

Also do a lot of practice first before starting with the mig welder.  This is a pretty straight forward floor replacement for those of us experienced in doing it, but not so easy for a first time user of a mig welder.  

Ken

Oooops I misunderstood the part  about cutting and welding, I thought you meant just weld a little at a time to avoid distortion.. ::) I've put the grinder away...

Will it matter if it is left like that for a week or two while I get the welding side of things organsied or should I get onto it right away?

Thanks for all your help so far Ken and everyone

Nick

It was suggested to me that when replacing floors and/or sills to jack the car up and place 2x4's between the stands and the car running the length of the car to stop sagging.

man, after working on my floor every weekend since easter I reckon you should just por 15 all the rust as it was and cross your fingers when driving over the bumps.
Its painful to see some one back at the beginning of doing a rusty floor

how is your rear, is there much rust at the very back of the car?

I will update with some photos of the rear in the morning, going to need a petrol tank  :-[ unless they can be repaired?
Rust is'nt too bad in the general rear of the wagon but the petrol tank  and surrounding area is stuffed,

The point of my post is this question,
Anyone got any tips about removing chrome mouldings from the doors/front guards......ahh wait...without breaking the tabs or is it just one of those things ..if it breaks it breaks...

So what do I spray on them to loosen them - WD40. or..Acid? lol
Muchos Gracias  ;D

Nick

I would go the wd, give it a few soakings over a day or two.acid does seem to free up any rust, ive been getting into the acid a fair bit lately myself, chances are if they are that rusty that they will likey break putting them back on.
rare spare sells a kit to suit the sedan that may help, rusty clips also will leave horible brown runs when your car gets wet, you can paint them in por 15 but make sure you treat them with por 15 metal ready first, also a sand blast might help the stuff bond better, ive learned from experience that you cant just put the por 15 straight on rust, it falls off.
sand blasters are $20 at supercheap and about $14 for a bag of stuff, could be handy for cleaning those small rusty bits, I should get one myself.
I suppose it would be pretty scarey removing stainless trim from a FE wagon.

save ur money on a sandblaster for 14 bucks.

they dont do anything, they dont have enough suction to pull the media, and unless you're running over 100 PSI air and have a at least a 17cfm compressor with big tank or better, they are useless.

about clips.

I just put a wire wheel on my bench grinder, cleaned them all up, hit them up with metal ready then POR15.

only used 1 coat (too lazy) to put another on.

As Leon says POR 15 is extremely finnicky with its surface, it needs to be rough enough or it wont key properly.

Cheers

Ed

hi guys

we actually own and use a sand blaster, and for little brackets and small bits and pieces they are really good, ver messy but they work a treat

regards
Darcy

Door stripes can only be gently prised up and hope they dont break.  Front guards you MUST undo the bolt at the back, or break it off if it wont undo because prising up the guard spears will bend them and they will be VERY hard to straighten.
Even if the clips break, the front ones can be bought exact copy of original whilst a clip similar to the front guard clip can be purchased for thge door stripes.

Ken

Been very carefull with those bits Fccool... :P
Thanks guys, at least I can replace the clips if they do snap...I'm just spraying them with WD over a couple of days first..see if that loosens them up abit.
I will go the wire wheel also Ed, I had seen that little sand blaster and thought...hmmm I wonder how crap that is? But I could be wrong, I've only got a 11-12cfm compressor anyways.

p.s gave one of those flap disks a go, bloody hell it just cleans the old paint off in a flash...no pressure needed at all....and yes I'm been very very careful  ;D ;D
Pics of the back tomorrow...

Nick

A good tool at this stage could be a cup brush for the floor and door jambs.

Photos of the rear, petrol tank area is stuffed, the rest is ok...just has 47 odd years of the good old red dirt in her....
So question one, draining and flushing petrol tank before removal?

Do I just keep flushing  with water until safe?

I have a couple of doner wagons that I will be checking for a good tank, do I cut about 5 to 8 inches out from the edge of the tank to have plenty to work with?

Is there a special way of removing the filler pipe?  ::)

(http://tinypic.com/fbdijn.jpg)
(http://tinypic.com/fbdime.jpg)
(http://tinypic.com/fbdiu0.jpg)

Could only those of you who have done this repair, reply as I would prefer first hand knowledge rather than what you heard works.

Cheers in advance
Nick

p.s special thanks to Jamie(FeHotrod) who has been giving me lots of tips and help off the forum, cheers dude.

You don't need to flush the tank before removal, unless you are doing it with a smoke in your mouth  ;D
Just undo/grind-off the screws around the perimeter and pull it out.

 ;)Nick the back end of your wagon doesnt seem to bad really ive seen a lot worse trust me,the section that is rusted out can also be found in utes and vans,and if you dont have any luck with the fuel tank,give streetneat in qld a call cause im sure he is making fuel tanks brand new!!i must say you have been a busy boy too its looking real good,the cleaner the better!!cheers jamie ;)

Actually if there is petrol in the tank and with all those holes in the top, I wouldn't grind near it unless it was very well flushed.
The screws holding in the tank are 7/16 head tappers like the mudguard screws.  They should undo easily and the tank slides out from underneath with the neck attached.  Just twist and pull slowly until it is released from the 2 rubber grommets in the body.
As far as repairs go - locate a good wagon donor car and cut out a large section of the area around the tank.  Then only cut out as much metal as required from your car to get back to good metal.  Trim the donor section to fit and weld in.

Ken

As Ken said, don't use a grinder if the tank has petrol in it or you can smell fumes. A bit like having a smoke in your mouth. If the tank has been flushed of petrol you could fill the tank with water to rid the tank of fumes and then grind of any bolts you could not remove by any other means. The tank looks rs to me. A good secondhand one may be better. Welding new parts into a fuel tank can be a bit tricky unless you have the correct gear and you need to leak test it after welding.

I made a straight section 9" long and 3" wide about, it took about 1 hr and was probably the easiest patch to go in.
I didnt have to repair the corners of the tank hole.
looks like your tank hasent been used for a while by the looks of the hole in the top, could it really still have fuel in it?

Cool, thanks for all of that. ..yes it still has fuel in it..I was driving the wagon a little just before I brought it home  :o
it was only then that it sucked up some crap and got blocked...lol
I will drain it tomorrow and undo the screws...grinder is staying in it's box....for now  ;)
I'm not interested in trying to save the tank, I've seen it up close  :o
I will let you know how I go.
Nick

Ok,  tank came out no problems, no explosions either  ;)
Hmmm I prob could have just pushed it out  ::)
Really ordinary all around and abit worse on the left side...
I'll wait and see what I can salvage from my doner before doing any cutting...thanks guys...

oh now that I have easy access to basically the whole underneath of the Wagon  ;D, anything I should check out  :P
Nick

(http://tinypic.com/fc4chd.jpg)

(http://tinypic.com/fc4co7.jpg)

how do the upper shocker mounts look (mine were stuffed)?

Jonno

Hi,

under floor rust repairs.

I basically cut out the rusted sections up to the flange on the subframe rail.

folded a section of metal to the same profile,

cut out a strip of metal to reinforce the area where the tank bolts to and sticthed it in.

The corner sections were left standard as these areas were OK, and difficult to form up anyway.

welded the replacement section in.

Dont worry about not knowing how to weld, I couldnt weld before my project started.  since then ive learnt a thing or two about welding and reckon i can get by OK now.

it's all about practice and learning the settings on the machine you use (i use a MigoMag 195).

will see if i have any pics.

Cheers

Ed

Me two, I had very little experience but since starting my car I  have had heaps of practice, with a car like this you will probably end up with so much welding that you will have to either pay out a fortune in paying someone to weld, or your mates that can weld wont talk to you anymore.
try to spend as much as you can on a welder as everyone seems to start with a $600 -$700 unit then upgrade in the near future, I still am on the cheap mig myself and regret not spending a couple of hundred more at the start.
I think you can haggle at BOC gasses and get something suitable for $800-$1000, seems like big dollars but it will probably save you money and headaches in the end, I have heard lots of stories about people throwing the cheaper migs across the yard.
One of my mates just got his back after having it repaired after he threw it over the fence while working on his EK.

Sorry I've been away from home with work...
Finally got the whole front end done in etch primer ...pretty happy with the result of my first go at spraying...had  two or three water droplets come out of the nossle?? but all good now.. ;D
I have 3 or 4 spots to sand back and touch up: re bodywork..... but I'm away again until the 5th of Dec...

More updates then.... ;)
(http://tinypic.com/hv6hcx.jpg)

(http://tinypic.com/hv6hqx.jpg)

Nick

Hi Nick.
Looks good. BUT, watch those water drops. It is condensation. You will end up with a whole lot of little blisters under the paint. Does your compressor have an evaporator? It is a little plastic container thingo, with a release valve on the bottom. It catches the vapour & lets you vent it before it hits the gun.  Also, on the bottom of the compressor tank, there should be a little valve. When it is full of air, open it up a bit & it will blow all the water out.

If you have an evaporator, you also need to make sure that there is enough hose length coming from the tank to the evaporator. This gives the water a chance to condense & settle in the evaporator. If it is too short, the water will stay in vapour form & end up in the paint. Comes up in about 2 or 3 months as a heap of little blisters.

Goodluck & watch that vapour! :o

Rob J

Been away for quite a while but back now so the questions will start again..... ::)
This is regarding my Smiths clock....just need someone to tell me if it's neg or positive earth?...nothing on the clock what so ever regarding that so any tips on testing it (A) to check if it works? and
 (b) how to wire it up are very much appreciated.....

(http://i1.tinypic.com/n16lp3.jpg)

(http://i1.tinypic.com/n16n1y.jpg)

And to who anyone who has any spare clock brackets p.m me  ;D

Nick

Ok I worked out that it is 12v neg earth clock...but this means diddly squat to me  ::) ::)

Does anyone out there know anything about the connecting and testing of this little bugger.....

Anyone???

Cheers
Nick

Nick,

I'm no auto-electrician, but it seems to me that there are two wires for the internal light and two for the mechanism.  There's apparently no presumption of an earth from contact with the car body.  This theoretically means that it can be used in either +ve or -ve earthed vehicles, so long as the fitting screw(s) are properly insulated (using a grommet or some-such).

But if you know it's -ve earth, then the green/yellow one would be the positive for the lamp, since the other appears to be earthed to the body of the globe-holder and hence the clock-body as well.

The other two must be for the mechanism itself, and the positive terminal would have to be the one that is insulated from the body of the clock.  It's a bit hard to tell from the photo but surely one of those terminals must be insulated.

It could be that the different posts on those terminals mean something to an auto-electrician, but as I said, I'm not one :)

Hope that helps.

cheers
RET

I agree with RET, the smaller of the terminals on the back of the clock looks to be insulated so would be the +ve, whilst the larger terminal appears to be earthed to the clock body, hence it would earth to the bracket and then to the car body.
Lamp is the same.

Ken

Ret and Ken
Thanks once again for your infomative replys...I'd just be a lost, jibbering mess without you blokes  ;D ;D

You just don't want to wire something like that incorrectly and get that dreaded smoke smell of internal parts cooking.... ;) ;D

Nick

Be very careful Nick,
Those clocks aren't worth much at all once you've let the smoke out of them ;) :P