FE-FC Holden Discussion Forum

Hello All,

 I have just purchased a new FE holden to add to my collection and I was wondering if anybody could help me with the interior paint colour. The id plate goes as such,

 FE-217-884-A
 TRIM 4-484
 PAINT No 253-6258

I know the outside is black but the interior paint on the dash looks like it could be gray or a silver colour. Can anybody help me with the exact colour as I would like to have this back to original.

Hi Andy.
You will have to talk to Ken McLean or one of the other FE Gurus about this. I know the colour you mean, but could not ID it.
It is one of those "Special" colour combos.

Rob J

Hi,

The Colour Specification is for a FE-217
External - Black (Hi-Gloss) - Trim - Taurus Red PVC, initial release FE colour set.
From the code it appears to be a very early 1956 Adelaide build car, but you would need to get the chassis number off the left guard to confirm this.
If it is a 56 car, all of the car interior should be black, including the steering column, however I will need to check, because black cars for government departments were sometimes had special bits.

Cheers Geoff_K

Thanks Geoff K,

 I dont think its is all black because around the door pillars and the inside of the glove box it is the silver-gray colour, I will try to get the number for you to help id where the car was made

Hi Guys.
This is not your average FE-217. It is a "Special" build car. The car is as you described it Geoff, but this has some extras from the showroom. The car is equipped with the "Special" front gaurd/door trims & has a Special badge on the rear quarter. It also has kick plates around the rear seat, similar to what the FJ Business sedans had.
The car also has the dash, centre pillars & some of the doors painted in silver metallic.
The car was purchased from the Launceston dealer by the first owner & he was accompanied by his then quite young daughter. She clearly recalls the car on the showroom floor with this trim & is adamant it was never added.The car was passed onto her when her father died. It then stayed in her possession until Les bought it. Then Les sold it to Andy.
Ken knows of this car & has another recorded with this paint scheme (I think).
Like I said, Andy. You will not be able to get the colour from any book, but will have to get it matched from the rear of the glovebox.
If someone like Geoff doesn't know the colour, it will probably remain a mystery.

Rob J

Hi Rob, Andy el al,

I was only using the paint/trim codes as reference.  Seems like this really could be something special.
Speculating on Holden Factory/Dealer 'specials' will always be interesting, but it is likely that some 'experimental' cars could have been disposed of, and also some 'pushy/special' dealers and/or customers could have got special orders.  However, considering how flat out the production line was, it is more likely that the dealer organised a few spare parts and did a 'factory customisation' in their workshop because the 'boss' could make a few extra $'s (I mean Pounds) and keep the customer happy (or get rid of  a car that was not moving).
If anyone knows what colour schemes Hobart Taxi's were painted in 1956, could it be that someone had to move a car that had been prepared as a Hobart (or even Melbourne 'Silvertop') Taxi.
(I saw this happen at Muirs Ashfield when Holden realeased the VK Commodore.  Initially the grille was not accepted by buyers, so Muirs had them chromed)  
Anyway the only FE-217 I am sure about is mine.

Cheers

Geoff K

Thanks Rob & Geoff K,

 Looks like I will have to have another get together with Rob and talk as he knows more about the car than I do. Thanks for your help Geoff looks like I will be going off what Rob says and will be starting to match some paint with a sample. Will be interesting to see the final product.

It was quite common for black Holden's from the 50's & 60's to come ex-factory with metallic silver/grey inside......although nobody seems to know what colour it is (unless Ken knows??).
Also, chrome grilles for VK's was a genuine Holden accessory....quite rare now.

Cheers,

Graham

The black FE Special I wrecked last year had silver for the interior colour. I still have the dash fittings if required. Basically all the interior surfaces bar the steering colomn were silver.
Colin

Hi All.
Here is the chassis number, Geoff;
6 - 8886M

Rob J :)

Here is a car with what sounds like the same scheme - an FC Business Sedan.

(http://tinypic.com/9ulms2.jpg)

(http://tinypic.com/9ulob7.jpg)


RET or Ken will identify the colour, from my recollectrion this was talked about a couple of years ago on the forum.

Cheers,

Craig.

Hi Guys,
Black Cars have really interesting interiors.
I have skimmed through some of my files and see that I have many nights work ahead of me to get to the bottom of how the interiors of Black Cars were finished.  Really interesting, lots of surprises ahead.
Anyway, with respect to the car being discussed:
The silver colour would be 208-7815 Pewter Grey
After 20 August 57 the Instrument Panel Upper & Instrument Panel Ash Tray was changed to 208-2152 Charcoal Grey.

Geoff_K

My thanks to everybody, I greatly appreciate all the help to find out the interiour colour.

Rob have you been sneaking into my shed or did you already have the chassis number.

 Thanks for the paint number Groff K, will now get stuck inot getting the paint and have a go at my first paint job.

 Nice pic of the FC business sedan CraigA, hopefully soon my FE will look like that.


Andrew G

Hi Andy.
I snuck in last night while you were sleeping, hoping to get the chassis number & maybe pinch the Norman back! But bugger me if you weren't sleeping with it under you pillow ::) ::)
Maybe that's why you have a crook neck in the mornings.

Sleep tight, Andy. Oneday you will roll off the pillow & the Norman is MINE AGAIN.......hahahaha..........etc..........evil cackle to continue.....

:o
Rob J ;)

I also wrecked a FE 225 which was black with silver dash, I did a very thorough examination of the cars dash area and it never had black paint on it.
The silver is on all inside sections of the dash and is definately factory finish.
My assuption is that they were fleet cars for a specific comany or government dept.  There were no holes for a roof mounted sign for a taxi but there were a number of holes in the firewall (about 15 non original holes) possibly a 2 way radio and screw holes where maybe wiring was held in place and also possibly another battery on the drivers side of the engine bay.  The car was very original in terms of modifications that would indicate a 70's custom, so all the holes would appear to have been done very early in its life.  
Ken

Thanks Ken,

 From all the responses I will be painting it the silver colour as I really wanted to have it back too all original.

Rob J, I should have know it was you from the warm breath on the back of my neck last night.

G'day guys, just posting a couple of pics of a Black FE I found a few years ago... not sure if it's a Standard or Business Sedan - up to the experts. You can see a bit of the red interior, but unfortunately no interior details...

(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/Hewart4/extras/blufe1.jpg)
Slight dent in the driver's side rear quarter...

(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/Hewart4/extras/blufe2.jpg)

Cheers
Les...

hmmmm hard one to picture

although it is obvious that its been messed with. notice the fc bonnet mascot with an fe emblem in front of it  :o :o

Looks like a nice car Hewart, can't see a light switch on the drivers door pillar so it's probably a standard.

I have an FE panel van with an FC mascot above the FE badge and have seen others, maybe another GMH mystery.

Gary

anyone know the truth behind the bonnet mascot/s

Thanks for the pic Hewart, those front indercators are quite small, are they a after market add on. If so would that make it a standard???

Can't claim to know "the truth", although it is out there ::)

I'd be more inclined to think the FC bonnet mascot is just a matter of personal taste (or lack thereof :-X)  I've seen them fitted to a Kingswood, a VC Commodore, even an XC Falcon one time.  They're a fairly universal sort of fit, unlike the FE one, which suits an FE and an FE only.

Those indicators look like trailer equipment.  Neither standard nor business sedans had indicators as factory equipment - only the specials.

Since (as Gary said) no pillar mounted light switch is visible, nor is a taxi-bar evident, I'd reckon it's a standard.

cheers
RET

PS: Andy & Rob: get a room  :-*

Now Ret, don't be so negative towards the classic FC mascot. Many a FE owner has tried to disguise their less than adequate FE with the bonnet mascot of an FC. It doesn't work though, we can see right through the disguise.  ;D
As for the mascot of the FE, it will fit another car......an FC. I have never seen this done though...I wonder why  :P.
Regards
Alex

Hmm, yet I don't see one on the bonnet of your car!

And yes, while you can screw an FE mascot to an FC bonnet, it would look a trifle weird when not integrated (as it should be) with the bonnet button and escutcheon that make the FE so damned elegant.  And once you fitted that, you'd have... an FE bonnet.

cheers
RET

Oh dear....I think I'm gonna puke  :-/

Maybe, there is a very famous Modern Motor cover with an FE ripping around Lang Lang I think with an FC bonnet mascot, the mag is dated 1958 from memory.
Possibly the FC mascot was fitted to this car as a prototype.
Can anyone post a pic as I dont have this mag anymore?
More likely is that the original owner simply bought an FC mascot and fitted it because he liked it on his car.
Dealers would have been quick to make a sale to service customers advising them that their car will look more like the new model if they buy the mascot.
Ken

Hey Ken.
This the 1?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v117/customfc/holden 1/FE-LangLang2.jpg)
Regards
Alex

hey alex could you please send me the original size of that image, i love it!!!:D

my emails address is
kenkanifff@hotmail.com

That's the 1 Alex, what's the date on it?

Ken

This post is very interesting - I was referred tothis post following my question regarding the name of the silver/grey colour on the inside of my early ''nitrocellulose' Hi Gloss Black FB 215.
I don't accept that generally factory black cars with iridecent silver interiors are unusual and rare, and that they normally had black dashes.  I am not an FE-FC nut perse so no doubt Ken or Graham will have a better idea, but my opinion is based on the unrestored FE-FC 215, 217 and 225s I have seen over the years (less than 10).  All have had grey/silver interiors (I owned an FC 225 factory black in the 90s with Silver interior).  I now have 2 'acrylic' factory black EK's both with their original paint on the interior and it is metallic silver/grey also.  The FB 'nitro' I have just bought is also grey/silver and is clearly original paint (you can see where holden have painted over the black where it is wearing through on the door tops etc, but this is how they were painted not an addition)

The reason I am fairly sure of this is a practical one - Black is god damn hot.  Imagine if the top of your door was gloss black, and your dash and other areas in direct sunlight the burns you would get.  All FX and FJ's that were black also generally had a silver interior (dash/doortops).

I would expect that it is rarer to find a black car with a black door top/dash - and in fact would doubt the authenticity of this over grey/silver.

P.S.  As for the digressed bonnet mascot discussion, don't forget they were fitted by the dealer.  If Dad was bought a Christmas present bonnet mascot for his FE in 1959 they would have given him a FC one, which would also be the case if the car was traded and 'jazzed up' by a dealer for the lot as well I would expect.  Given every dealer in Australia was ordering and fitting accessories no matter how big/small you can also see why FC bonnet mascots show up on FB's, EK's and so many other vehicles where people state it has been there since new.

Anyway, sorry for my rant  :o
Appreciate people's opinions on this again.
Tim

Hi Sunnytim

I'm not a guru on FE FC's by any means and, while I appreciate a nice original or restoration, I don't really care about what is and what isn't original - but that's me.  However, I can some information on how my black FE 225 came from the factory as I know it's full history (family car since new and I'm the second owner)..... it's paint was black everywhere the eye could see.  :)

Kathi

Glad you found this old post Tim - I had been looking for it to answer your question - You seem to have been lucky with all the black FE's and FC's you have seen - I have looked at Dozens over the years with very few of them having the silver dash and door tops. I also have photos of one black FE sedan having a total silver interior with the charcoal dash top. From my experience the silver dash & door tops is more common on All black specials since Single colour special sedans usually had a secondary colour on the interior which was not indicated on the ID plate. However, it is not across all the production.

Standards and Business sedans are much rarer with silver interiors but they certainly do exist - As I said years ago - they are probably fleet cars for government departments such as the Premiers Dept where Black was seen as a symbol of prestige and the silver was added for contrast.

Ken

Some pics of the car mentioned
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/mcl1959/blacksilverFE1.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/mcl1959/blacksilverFE2.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/mcl1959/blacksilverFE3.jpg)

The one that I wrecked was different - the lower dash was also silver along with the dash panel and the door jambs were silver as well.

Ken

This is the car That I wrecked some years ago and of course now regret doing so. Ken, I did keep the tag, did I pass the numbers on to you?

Colin.

No I dont think you did - I have no black FE special recorded with your name against it

Ken

Many thanks all.  I have only seen 1 black FE-217 and a friend of mine had a black FC 215 for many years (the car now RIP).  The others I have seen around the traps have all been specials I think  The FC 215 was all silver inside.  The colour of the car I am restoring appears identical to the FE pictured with grey/silver dash/doors but black door jams.
Sorry I get a bit side tracked I have a thing for factory black cars  ;D

No worries Tim - I like black cars as well - Hope the following brightens your day ;D
2 black specials and 2 really unusual black standards
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/mcl1959/blackspecial1.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/mcl1959/blackspecial2.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/mcl1959/blackstandard1.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/mcl1959/blackstandard2.jpg)

Ken

Hello Ken,
The Black standard FE located at the 'Cape' in the photo in this thread, has a blue/Grey color on door, Dash & surrounds, as you know an unmodified one family car.
The worse for wear these days!

Tony C

Here you go Ken.

No: FE225  22385  S
TRIM  4-582AO
PAINT  253-5258

The paint line may be 6258? Very badly stamped. I'm sorry that I haven't got the subframe number. It was very badly damaged. All I could keep were the legs.

Colin.

Mine is a standard.

Black with red interior. Here is a pic of my dash....

(http://s17.postimage.org/jpk2uxel7/IMG_0698.jpg) ($2)

Pinky

Yep 6258 = Hi Gloss Black
Thanks for the info

Thanks for the pics Ken.  The FEs seem to be less rudimentary than the FCs in regards GMH's approach.  I wish I had taken photos of cars over the years  >:(
I'm just about to go driving in my Black EK Hydramatic  :)

G'day Guys, My FE wagon bonnet Bird & emblem looks just like the black one above. It's a March '58 as far as we have been able to calculate. Pretty sure that's how it came new. I bought the car of the 1st owners son who was 83 about 3 years ago. Had to replace the bonnet then but took the FC letters out, welded up the holes and put the original silverware back on. Our best guess is that this was the end of the FE run and perhaps they started to use FC silverware before the end of FE production ??  This is purely postulating  ???  9,000 miles now in 2 years and running like a train. Cheers Moe`t

Het Moe't

Here is a pic of our FE panelvan taxi truck

(http://s7.postimage.org/hihtgq2zb/DSCF0114.jpg) ($2)

It has the double bonnet mascot treatment as well, so I will be leaving it as is, I have seen a few like this over the years

Gary