FE-FC Holden Discussion Forum

Guy's,

Does anyone have a 186 (192) coupled to a Celica 5 speed? If so, what is the best plan for removal? Remove the box from the bell housing or remove the bell housing and box from the engine?? Mine has been "shoehorned" in, but a GRP plate has been made to give access from the cabin sole to the top or back of the bell housing, so at least you can reach the top bolts.
It is also fitted with a Hadfield sub frame which has a cross member under the back of the box for support.
Any info welcome.

Grah.

I would be removing box and bellhousing together. Why do you have to take it out?

Cheers
Sarge

Thanks for your reply Sarge.

Basically, I want to remove the engine and I also want to have the gearbox overhauled, it falls out of 4th gear and 2nd gear is difficult to select, so I guess the syncro rings are shot?

And to top it all I'm just plane bloody curious. But its a struggle on your own!

Grah.

Hi Grah
 Why not remove motor and box together out of car. Then split box from motor on ground, a lot easier. Leave bellhousing on box.

 Cheers Al

Al, thenks for your note.

Is that an easier solution?? I don't to damage any of the engine bay paint work as it is in really good condition. I thought it might be easier to split the box of the engine, remove it from under the car and then lift the engine???

Open to more thoughts!

Grah.

Grah
       If your pulling motor out as well, as Al has said pull them out together. I would remove the radiator and grille along with the top section of the radiator support panel mate heaps of room lift engine and box out in one hit.

Cheers
Sarge

Grah,

Take the engine & gearbox out as an assembly.  It is so much easier to do than pull themapart in the car.

You don't have to remove the grille, take out the radiator & radiator support panel.  There should be enough room then.

Brett

Hey Grah
    I've got a copy of "Installation Instructions" for "Celica 5sp for Holden Six"   if that will help.

 Norm  :)

Grah
I only suggested the grille come out as well to give you the best amount of clearance, as you seemed concerned about the paint work in your engine bay. If you have a mate there to lend a hand then leave the grille in.

Cheers
Sarge

Thanks for all of the advice guys. Radiator is out, and I could remove the grill, but removal frightens me. The further I go the more I am finding. I'll try removing the raditor support panel and see how the room goes.
Norm, any info you could give me would be great.
gperkins@incat.com.au should find me.

Regards to all

and many thanks for your help.

Grah.

Do not remove grille!  It is a nightmare to re-fit.  As long as the bonnet is off and you have a decent pulley/winch or hoist and a few pairs of hands, there is plenty of room to manoeuvre out a long motor.

cheers
RET

Thanks for that,

The grill looks like it would be a nightmare to refit, so I will leave it be.

Thanks again,

Grah.

How do all you guy complete resto's if your scared to take out a grille. It really is not that hard. Compaired to the extra room it give's you to take out motor and box together.

Cheers
Sarge

for god's sake .... take out the damned grill so that I will be able to sleep better at night not worrying!

No leave it in so nobody has nightmares.

Sleep!!!!! whats that????

I'll leave it in, I can't stand any more nightmares!

Looks like a big jigsaw puzzle to me, I was never any good at them, the last piece was always missing!

Grah.

Sarge,

It is often worthwhile to re-read the previous posts to understand the context of the question.  No-one is debating the merits of restoring a car without removing the grille.  That's ridiculous.

Just so we're all on the same page, Grah is looking to limit damage to paintwork.  And since you have to crack the guards to get the grille back in again, this would seem to be asking for trouble in the paintwork department (even if predominantly a danger to the external paint).  Your response
suggests that's also how you read it.  But then you go on to say:

Now presumably you're not suggesting that the motor and box are narrower than the radiator and that they can fit through the gap between the radiator support panels?  In which case what benefit is there in taking the grille out?  Where is this extra space?

If you took a car to Higginbottoms or GEM etc you can bet your life they're not going to muck about removing and refitting a grille.

cheers
RET

RET
      I had read the Question and given my opinion. That is, I find it easier with the grille removed. If when your removing the engine you take the inlet & exhuast manifolds off does this not allow the motor to be removed with out having to lift it so high and on such a great angle. As for the external paint how can this be damaged, unless the car has been resprayed with the front guards and stone tray bolted in place. I personaly (or I should say Kevin his the painter)spray the front guards and stone tray whilst off the car. This allows for both inside and outside to be painted.

I only made comment on the resto and grille removal as other's seem to be getting all worked up about it. Making it sound like taking out the grille is like pulling teeth. If the grille stays in then thats fine I personal dont care I only offered advice and now we have the great debate going. Is it getting that way that nobody can post their advice or opinion here with out everbody getting all testy about what somebody else has written. Time for a chill pill if you ask me.

Yes you can leave the grille in. Yes you can remove motor and gearbox from the car in one piece with the grille in. As for damage to paint work well just place heaps of rags or old sheets around your engine bay (inner gaurds). As for the way Higginbottoms or GEM would do the job. They would leave the grille in and have at least two may-be three people on the job but does Grah have that much experience, if so why ask the question in the first place. The extra space I am referring to is only in the angle of the box and motor together. Not the motor and box fitting though the radiator space. I geuss it's each to their own, From the sounds of the original question it sounds to me that removing the gearbox from under the car and refitting it would be more of a nightmare than taking out a grille.


As one reply stated

My response was

Then your response was

and it just goes on about how hard a grille is to remove and refit.

I dont have any body helping me when I put motor and box in a car as Kevin is normally on to Panel and paint work. So this is why I made the suggestion in the first place. Grah if you have sombody helping you then as I said earlier leave the grille in.

Ret I did read the post prior to speaking did you?

Cheers
Sarge

Guys,

I didn't mean to cause a war!!!

I don't have a lot of help, I am an engineer by proffesion, not a vehicle technician, but I reckon I will manage it with the grill in and the help of my wife and son if I can grab him. I will place lots of sheets / blankets around to protect the paint work as best I can.
Thanks again for your words of wisdom.
Grah.

Grah
       I have not taken anything you have said or done the wrong way, so as far as I am concerned you have not started a war. Good luck with it and hope it all goes well.

Cheers
Sarge

thanks guys for clarifying the grill situation - I will sleep really well tonight, now the war is over!
( as john cleese says - don't mention the war )

earlee

earlee,

John Cleese may well say that, but Don Walker says "When the war is over, got to start again"... ;D

Oh, and before FCCOOL gets the spelling police onto you, it's grille. ;D

cheers
RET

Guys,
Bit the bullet this weekend and removed the grille. Not too bad a job, except for the bolts underneath the pillars, god knows how i will get them back in. Any way its now ready to remove the engine and gearbox, next weekend.

GP

Well, the engine is now out of the car. Will it ever go back???? Easier than  I thought, apart from getting the angle correct for lifting.
Parted the gearbox from the engine and removed the camshaft.

Does anyone know the part number for a standard 186 camshaft and is it stamped on the end of the shaft, aluminium gear end???

It looks like a cast camshaft, and it looks in good nick, no scuffing or marking on the lobes. Followers are hydraulic and they look excellent.

Are the standard pistons flat top???

Any info greatful,

Grah.

Its out!!!

(http://tinypic.com/55o7kz)

Ofcourse rope is worksafe approved!!!

more pics of strip

(http://tinypic.com/5am2hl)