FE-FC Holden Discussion Forum

hi, darcy here

im doin ek as some of u have read ive got my 307 with full portings and matching performer manifold and im still wonderin whether to bother buying the supercharger

any1 got some ideas of what work i put into it

I guess it all depends how fast you want to go darcy!?

You've done the right thing by going a 307 over a 308 as it will fit (a little) easier due to the location of the oil filter.

A supercharged EK would be fairly unique although you may struggle for space. It all depends on your budget I guess, as well as how you plan to register it.

Think about insurance premiums down the track as well.  It may well be too expensive when you're 17 to drive it!

Although if you've got the time and money... why not?

Dave :D

Darcy,

I may be mistaken, but the 307 would be over capacity for forced induction (in NSW) for a monocoque body that is.

It's a shame u didnt use the 308, as it will haul arse over a Chev.
:P

Cheers

Ed

hey guys i have a 308 also, it was for my ht ute, maybe the 307 should go in the ht and the 308 in the ek

any ideas

was only giving u a ribbing, the 307 is a good choice!

well how bout the supercharger yes or no is it worth the hasle

a 307 supercharged in an Ek wouldnt be legal in NSW.

OI can send u the formula used for capacity calc later, or u can look it up in the RTA Code of practice for modifications to light vehicles.

Cheers

Ed

Ed could you send me the calculator?
Matt

for mono construct  normally aspirated

original weight (kg) x 0.294 (for cubic inches)

original weight (kg) x 4.82 (for mL)


for mono construct super or turbo charged

original weight (kg) x 0.244 (for cubic inches)

original weight (kg) x 4.0 (for mL)

Why would you bother to supercharge a SB Chev in an early Holden these days? For that matter even putting in the 307 is now debateable. You cannot buy decent fuel to keep up with it, you will have legal problems in every state (including Vic), you will not be able to legally drive for the first 3 years of your licence (even without the supercharger), the cost fact is huge, the car doesn't really drive that well anyway (too much weight up front) etc., etc. Now 10 years ago i would NEVER have said these things but now?

There are so many good late model engines available that are far more suited to the conversion, will run straight unleaded, start easier, drive better, cost less and stay legal why wouldn't you consider them? Hey don't get me wrong, I love V8's. I still currently own 3 V8 vehicles, two big blocks and a small block and have owned countless others.

I would now NEVER consider even a stock V8 for my FC. Even my current Hotrod project is 6 cylinder EFI (RB 30 turbo) powered. I have not yet driven a pre HR Holden with a V8 yet that I really thought drove like it should. (HK on are okay) When you modify a car it should make it better to drive, not worse (mainly talking steering/braking here)

I say forget the supercharger, and just stick with the chev. I am dropping a chev into my eh ute thats got 400 plus horsepower. if the steering and brake system is set up properly there is know reason why it  wont be okay. As for legal problems in every state, i dont know about the other states, but dropping a chev into early holdens is easier now in queensland, So long as i am running a full chassis, discs all round, that is really it.
Dropping chevs into old holdens, have them so they are safe to drive, Nothing wrong with that, I would buy a commodore if i wanted something that handles nice and goes well, but wouldnt stand out like a small block chev in a old holden. New motors are nice, but i like to be able to lift the bonnet  look at my motor and be able to work on it. Not scrath my head and rely on computers to run the motor.
But Ol School and Rat Rods, cant beat it. JUST A OLD REV HEAD AT HEART
Cheers Spider :)

Spider, I partly agree with you. Forget the supercharger and if you really want a V8 then SB Chev is the way to go, however, in Victoria you will not be able to legally drive it until you are 21 because of the engine size/weight ratio. The power/weight and engine size/weight restrictions will certainly come into other states very soon. I gather that this will affect Darcy!

It is certainly technically possible to legally build a Chev powered pre HR in most states now if you make the correct engineering changes. It will still always be a compromise, although to some an acceptable one. I still maintain that I have not driven a V8 early Holden yet that drives as well as a dead stock V8 HK with good radials, nor one that steers or drives as well as a good red motor car with stock style steering and HR discs. Believe me I have driven plenty of them! I cannot see the point of spending so much money and not getting a better result.  

If I wanted a Commodore I would buy one too (I wont) but I have a number of old cars, including the FC Wagon, and strongly believe that if are going to modify a car, you modify a lot more than just how fast it can go. If it does not handle, brake, steer and drive better than an original after getting all that extra performance what is the point? Most seem to get the braking pretty right, but it is the handling and steering that is often below par.  

400 HP of badly understeering and/or bump steering car with limited lock just isn't my idea of fun! Just for the record I have a near 400 HP SB Chev powered full steel bodied 1940 Ford (sorry for that word) Coupe with HK front end and steering, IRS and 4 wheel discs that drives like a HK Premier but still pulls 14 sec 1/4s. If I tried to put that running gear into the FC it would never be able to drive as well, partly due to the fact the manufacture of the original unibody car restricts what can be done. Yes you could run a tube chassis or similar drastic changes but is it worth it?

Darcy

Dont listen to all these soft cocks do what the hell you want as it is YOUR car. I have owned a 350 powered FC and I currently own and run EVERYDAY a fairly hot 350 in a HR wagon and as long as you run the 98 octane fuel with the lead additve itll run beaut  The only problem with running forced induction ie. Blower or turbo is keeping it cool which can be fixed with a really good cooling system.  So in answer to your question yes run a blower who cars what anybody else thinks.
Hey remember we only live once so enjoy it

Ben

Haha there are some rebel words to listen too Darce ,This is your world ,You call the shots ,You sound like youve got some fire in ya hehe make sure whatever you build has got some flame throwers......
Hows the HR going revhead !

Firstly, perhaps Darcy can come on here soon and actually tell us how old he is? I gather though from his posts that he is under 21 and this is the first major project of his own. Darcy may not even have his licence yet (18 in Vic.) Darcy please correct me if I am wrong here. We know that Darcy is based in Victoria so my advice relates mainly to Victoria but will affect some other states.

If I am right about Darcy's age then some of the more mature people on this board, particularly those who are senior club members have a bit more of a responsibility toward young guys starting out than what is shown here. You should at least be honest and have the decency to tell him like it is. Yes you can run a SB Chev, yes you can throw a GMC 671 or B & M on top of it, you can spend $10-15,000 doing it all, you can maybe run 400-500 hp and you MIGHT get it past rego in Victoria if you are really lucky, but the fact remains that unless you want to just go drag racing you will not be allowed to drive it on the street till you are 21 years of age in Victoria, end of story. That is when your restrictions finish. Forget whether you can keep decent fuel up to it, that is another debate.

To say that the only problem with running a supercharged or turbocharged car is 'keeping it cool' is oversimplistic and simply not correct. There are a large number of other factors that would need to be taken into account including the very obvious one of 'fitting it all in' (your other post Darcy), not to mention upgrading the rest of the driveline to actually take that extra power, more stringent engineering (read Ed's NSW post), fuel pressure, build cost, etc, etc. It is all possible but requires major (read EXPENSIVE!) engineering.

So yeah, go right ahead, be a rebel and do what YOU want and spend every last bloody cent you have doing it, just as long as that doesn't include actually driving it on the road in Victoria! It is certainly not a matter of being a 'soft cock', as those of us with sense have been referred to, that is just a stupid comment that does not even deserve an answer. I would have thought it was simply a matter of common sense. If you cannot at least keep the debate civil how much credibility do you deserve?

If you are ignorant of Victorian laws then don't make the comments. You will find that NSW are about to restrict engine size and power in vehicles for young drivers thanks to the number who are managing to wipe themselves out lately, often urged on by bright mates who "don't care what anyone else thinks". This problem seems to be mostly Skyline/WRX etc. drivers but none of us ever want to see a car load of 17 or 18 year olds killed in a V8 FC or similar! I have seen the results first hand and believe me it is not pretty.

You are right Revhead we do only live once, but you don't get to come back for a second go after you wipe yourself (and who knows who else) out in an overpowered, ill handling car with a novice driver at the wheel. Darcy, keep your dreams, get some experience at building cars and driving them and then build the supercharged V8 car of your dreams the way you want but not as your first car!

I doubt there shall ever be consensus as to which is the best way to modify a car, or which is the most suitable engine.

Isn't the obvious answer to follow the published guidelines of the registration authority in the state in which you live, and consult with an authorised engineer, prior to embarking on a project?

Ed has given the formulas for NSW. Not hard to work out where a 1070kg FC fits in, whether it be naturally aspirated or fitted with a forced induction system.

Based on the formula the largest supercharged or turbo charged motor you can certify and register in an FC in NSW is 4.28L

Notwithstanding the ability to modify after initial certification, consider the implications of an illegally modified vehicle in an accident. No insurance cover...

Engineer your cars well, understand their limits and drive within them.

Read Eddie's quote "Isn't the obvious answer to follow the published guidelines of the registration authority in the state in which you live, and consult with an authorised engineer, prior to embarking on a project?" This is the best piece of advice here so far.

I still stand totally behind my advice too, especially as checking back through Darcy's posts he is actually 14 years of age and obviously very keen and willing to learn and looking for SENSIBLE guidance. Better to learn it right from those that have already made the same mistakes and save a lot of heartache and money. Obviously your dad has been there, done that so his advice is also important. Has he been reading the Forum as well? What is his opinion?

Darcy, your dad's 350 FC is a real nice car from the pictures too, but I bet it wasn't his first car! I also noted your post about the terrible turning circle on dad's FC. Probably the most common fault of all V8 early Holdens and one that has never really been solved properly IMHO. Some have better steering than others, but NONE I have seen are better than stock steering in excellent condition with quality tyres. If such a one exists I would certainly like to see it for myself. A lot of V8 owners seem to have trouble admitting that their steering is at best ordinary!

Darcy you already seem to have a fair bit of good knowledge on Holden 6's! If you intend to drive it on the street when you get your licence I would be buying a VK EFI auto or 5 speed (your choice) wreck as they are dirt cheap and then use as much from it as you can and give the motor some mild mods. Concentrate on making the car look just right and spend more time and energy on the detailing, body/paint, interior and wheel/tyre choice.

Restrictions are only set to get worse in Victoria and other states soon so be wary if you start building a two year project based on the law today.

Yes the steering is ordinary but you compensate for it
the real answer to this is if you really want to have a supercharged FC/EK do it but as everybody else has said it is expensive and it requires someone with the knowledge to set it up.  I want one and when I have the finances I will be putting a blower on my HR.

In regard to the "father like" comments of others on this forum, if you do it, keep it under the bonnet as there are less dramas that way.

Thats my opinion

Hey HARKO the HRs goin real well

2 reckon`YOU SHOULD DO THE RIGHT THING BY THE LAW, BUT THEN WHEN i THINK ABOUT THE RIDES IVE HAD IN BENS CAR I WOULD HAVE TO SAY YOU MIGHT HAVE TO BEND THE LAW.
i BOUGHT A FC WHEN IN MY TEENS AND MODIFIED EVERYTHING AGAINST THE WILL OF THE OLD, WISE, BEEN THEIR AND DONE THAT GUYS. THEY ALL SAID I WOULD REGRET IT, CHEW HEAPS OF FUEL, LOSE MY LISCENSE, RITE OFF MY CAR, KILL PEDESTRIANS ETC ETC.
FUNNY THING WAS AFTER LOSING MY LISCENSE 3 TIMES DUE TO SPEEDING AND NEG DRIVING FINES IN STOCKERS, I NEVER LOST A POINT SINCE MODIFIYNG MY CAR, DIDNT RITE OF MY CAR, KILL A PEDESTRIAN OR RITE OF MY CAR.
WHATS EVEN FUNNIER IS THAT HALF OF THE GUYS GIVING ME THE ADVICE DID.
IF YOU DONT DO WHAT YOU WANT YOU END UP REGRETING IT BUT MAKE SURE WHAT YOU WANT TO DO IS REALISTIC FOR YOUR SKILL, TOOLS AND BUDGET OR YOU WILL END UP WITH A PILE OF RUSTY STEEL ON ITS WAY TO SIMS BEFORE YOU EVEN DRIVE IT.
YOU MAY HAVE TO MAINTAIN LONGER STOPPING DISTANCES WICH IS A PAIN IN THE SYDNEY TRAFFIC WITH ALL THE WANKERS ON THE ROADS, AS WELL AS TAKING IT EASY ON THE BUMPS AND BENDS BUT IT IS WORTH IT.
OFCOURSE WE WOULDN'T JUMP INTO A V8 FC AND TREAT IT LIKE A NEW SS, IN A FC YOU DONT HAVE TO TAKE THAT BEND AT 100MPH BECUASE YOU LOOK JUST AS COOL IDLING ALONG AND ITS GREAT TO HAVE THE POWER TO JUMP ON , ON A NICE CLEAR STRAIGHT OR AT A STREET MEET NIGHT OR NEXT TO THAT WANKER IN A HATCHBACK AT THE LIGHTS.

HEY BEN, WERE YOU ON YOUR P'S THAT NIGHT WE WERE DRAGGIN PEOPLE OF AT ALL THE LIGHTS UP IN NEWCASTLE IN OUR FC'S AND YOU HAD THE V8 SEDAN?
PRETTY FUN MEMORIES HEY?
DID YOU RITE IT OFF OR LOSE YOUR LISCENSE, FOR THAT MATTER EVEN GET PULLED OVER?

My EK Ute is chopped and channeled with a 350 and soon a blower that has full engineering aproval  ??? ??? ??? Darcy ,do gooders are ruining this world ,Think outside the square ,read between the lines and dont let anyone stop you having fun - 90 percent of the population will try to mate.
You are your own person and you will know your limitations but be sure you always anticipate what could happen next.
Half you blokes need a Harley ...
Fully legal with bad brakes ,enourmous power and dont corner....
If Darcy has a death wish he will do it in one of a million ways and there aint nothing any of us can do about it , He just likes cool cars and wants to be different from you and I , And obviously is enjoying the youth we only live once Dads

Yep Darcy, don't listen to us world ruining 'do gooders' WTF would we know? Build the car the way you want, just don't expect to drive it on any public road in Victoria till you are 21. It will be a shitload of fun looking at in in the garage!


I would have thought good advice was one thing we could do about it. You also only DIE once!

Im not planning to get this topic any more heated than needs be Dave but the whole deal in the first place is that you are talking to a 14 year old as you say ,Re read your postings then think how you would rewrite it in a form that a 14 year old will read it ,take note and digest it ....
Saying NO NO NO to a 14 yo dont work ,Saying yes you can fit a blower even if its only a dummy case that by the way will set him back around 1 - 200 bucks ,It drops in under the vision rule and would look sick mate !

Do gooders are people who do everything by the rules and preach them ,To me thats very narrow minded and we as a whole have lost too many fredoms over it because more times than not they are someone elses perceptions of what is right .Not yours

So looking back at the whole thread it seems that you are annoyed that Darcy wont be able to drive the car untill hes 21 - bloody rules huh ,Maybe if he finishes this project or any other that he moves on to before hes 21 his dad could drive it or he could make it an absoloute show stopper to register on his 21st birthday - Thatd be cool.
Hey we are only people mate with different outlooks and veiws Its just forcing the veiws that isnt needed.

Harko, Dave may not have time to read this response as he is having some "freedom issues" over at Hot-Rod Internet.
http://www.hot-rod.com.au/benchracing/
Long story short, the ASRF National Administrator is apparently taking legal action against the host and 10 members of the discussion board.

Stinky,

Thanks for posting this link.  As someone who has copped bullsh*t legal threats a few times in the past year I can definately see Dave's point.

How does this affect RET and others who administrate and post on this forum if Darcy takes Harko's advice and stuffs a blown 350 in his car - and then wraps it round a pole?

Doesn't matter if Harko's advice was well meaning - which knowing Harko it was - but bringing court action into a web forum is PISS WEAK and extremely sad.

All power to you Dave - just remember two words - TRUTH and KARMA - because they will always catch up with these a-holes.

Cheers,

Craig.

** Sorry for the thread hijack **

hey guys goin back on this post

why even bother posting shit like this

i believe my question was i am already probably putting in a sbc . i wasnt  asking should i  use a supercharger it was meant to be what would be the outcome, what work goes into it
etc etc

in the end i would of ended up doin what i wanted to and with the amount of which i could afford at the time

hope this settles the steam

darcy

Ummm, likewise!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

hey

if it came out that way it wasnt meant to as i expressed in mi last post

thanks
darcy

Heated? I thought it was a debate? The only time it gets heated is when people call others 'soft cocks' or 'do gooders' with no understanding of why they have given that advice and have no idea of who they are talking to. So what is the difference b/w 14 and 84? Do you think he is an idiot because he is young and should be spoken to differently? There is only ONE way to say it, the TRUTH. I cannot remember saying no, no, no. I did say that you could technically do just that, but gave my advice based on Victorian Laws and Darcy's age. Hey I don't make the bloody laws. If Darcy wants to spend big dollars on a car he cannot drive that is his business! At least someone told him beforehand. If he chooses to accept or ignore any advice is a decision for him.


Do gooder? Do everything by the rules? You sure as hell don't know me. I believe in telling people how it is, that's it. It is not 'preaching', it is the truth. Nothing narrow minded about it. I know all about 'lost freedoms' and truth is the first thing that goes. The only way you can register any street car these days is 'by the rules' end of story. That is just how it is.


Why would I be annoyed? It is not my hard earned money. I was trying to stop him from being annoyed.


I am not forcing my view, I am reiterating the current Vic law for those that don't know it or seem to have a problem understanding the implications of it. Darcy can ignore it and do whatever he wants in the end but does so at his own peril.


Would you even want to risk taking on the legal system to find out? That is why I said some need to have a bit more of a responsibility toward young guys starting out. 'Rebels' are being legislated out of existence!


Welcome to the new world! Even more reason why we have to be careful what we say and sometimes agree to disagree. I still maintain that a SBC powered early Holden doesn't drive as good as a Red 6 one but nobody has to agree with me. It is just my opinion and I have as mush right to express it as you do to disagree with it.


To save you 10-15 g's and a lot of heartache. And Darcy any SBC (even a 283) will be illegal for you to drive on 'P's in an early Holden, but hey when you turn 18 it is YOUR driver's licence not mine. The good news is that if you are building a drag car or just trailering it to shows you can happily ignore everything I have said!
Dave

Well said, Dave.

Speaking generally (not necessarily in relation to darcy's sbc plans etc):

This HRI business has me extremely concerned about the ramifications of the naive taking ill-considered or incorrect advice from this site and subsequently endangering the lives of themselves or others.

Whether or not this site, the clubs, the admin (me) or the poster could be in any way liable is unknown, but I for one don't want to be put in the position where I have to find out.

When youngsters get killed on the road driving too fast or dangerously, it is human nature for their parents and loved ones to look for someone to blame.  Yes, it's liability gone mad, and yes it's the responsibility of the person doing the mods to make sure they're legal, but it's a fact of life that people need to blame someone when things go wrong, and there's plenty of ambulance-chasing lawyers only too happy to test the law.  I'm sure you've heard the ads on the radio: "Have you or has someone you know been injured in an accident?  You may be entitled to thousands or more in compensation!  Call me, call me now" etc.  And I sure as hell don't want to be the one on the end of that.  That's why I often sound like a soft-cock, or do-gooder, I guess.  I'd much rather be a do-gooder than a defendant.

cheers
RET

I know what you mean as it is pretty perfetic what people are suing for these days and one of the highest payed professions these days is ripping of the innocant with twisted lies and exageration.
however, if you check out sites related to late model four cylinder turbo 4wd cars you are sure to come across the topic of drifting. this is like the in thing for ricer boys, not all can do it, most try to and some drift too far wich is why when you see the cars on the news and in the paper they are wrapped around things from the high speed sideways impact.
what I mean is that this forum is one of the mildest , safest i have seen even if we are encouraging young people to put v8's in to old holdens, if we didn't they would think old holden people are a bunch of soft cocks and in turn go for the mainstream drifting ricer stuff wich is seriously deadly.
building a machine in your shed for years builds to much pride and respect in your car to do anything to silly and dangerous.
picking up a new subaru on finance and doing a few "mods" is a lot different to creating your dream over years in the shed and I think we would be doing the right thing to encourage todays youth to stay the f*#k away from the stuff the majority of them are into before someone knocks a pole onto one of our own houses.
we we won't be doing this by saying" keep it standard son", we will just scare em off.
btw, tourquefc just did all that work on his manifold, i dont think he will want to rush out and start again with another manifold to suit a blower.