FE-FC Holden Discussion Forum

G'day everyone

I am the owner of an FC Wagon in good original cond. I'm seriously considering employin an auto engineer to put a Commodore 3.8 V6 into her. Can anyone advise of the pitfalls (if there are any) etc?

Can the gearbox bolt straight in? Would prefer an auto. Will this work?

Does anyone know of a completed conversion like this?

Any suggestions as to where might be the best place to do the work?

What do you reckon the costs will be?

Would appreciate very much any comments.

Welcome Aboard duncanj65

This post may get moved (RET?) to the Technical Board modifications section.

But anyway, there have been various discussions on this topic in the past, so it would pay to use the search facility for starters then ask specifics. The most recent was here - http://www.fefcholden.org.au/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=hotup;action=display;num=1095164430


Briefly though.
1. v6conversions, Castlemaine Rod Shop and probably others do complete kits for these conversions.

2. Getting someone else to do the work will cost a bomb! As hourly rates aren't cheap and these conversions can get tricky.

3. Either way, a trans tunnel modification will need to happen, which will allow almost any gearbox.

G'day Duncan,

First thing I would say is do a lot of research before going into it... Because you wagon is in good condition you are just looking at doing the conversion only? My complete job owes roughly 30k so take away what you think a paint job would cost.

Some of hadfield stuff is good, other bits are rubbish... Send a PM if you want specifics, this is from my experiences.

Best thing I did was to buy the complete car as a wreck, saved money in the end by selling the bits that I didn't want and using absolutly everything that i could from it.

Up to you which car to pick but I used VT Commodore and had a couple of very good wins from this model... Brakes, booster, pedal assembly, centre console, cruise control, wiring harness, radiator, thermo fans, steering column, seats, etc etc.
All these thing fitted pretty easily to the vehicle.

Hope this is a start for you thoughts...

Cheers
Jason

Jase

Excellent reply. Thanks. Do they go well? I know they're old, but does the new motor dramatically affect performance. I should think so...

My old girls beaut, but a real slug, and you've got to wring out the little grey to get anywhere.


Duncan

Duncan
               Which ever way you decide to go you will have to meet the rego requirements of the state in which you live. This could include seat belts, disc brakes, engineers certificate, 2 speed electric wipes, heater demister. The cheapest options would be.
1, rebuilding & working your current grey motor
2, Installing a red motor
All the options depends on how original you want to keep the wagon, how much of the work you are willing to do yourself & how much you are willing to spend on parts/labour
Cheers
Glenn.

Jas' van goes about this well.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Duncan. Just to give you something to think about!
Pat Gardner @ V6 conversions [Moree 0267511243]
offers a drive in- drive out full conversion service.
He puts out an instruction pamphlet to show you step by step the full procedure [using his kits ].
to give you some ideaof costs; [2001 PRICES]
VS WIRING KIT TO FC   $375
ENG.MOUNTS                $200
FX-HR SUMP [with extended oil p/up ]    $150
VS/VT EXTRACTORS      $300
IDLER PULLEY  [replace p/steer if you want A/CON] $175
RACK & PINION KIT TO SUIT HR F/END    $450
BCM SIMULATOR [to suit your key--sec.bypass]        $300
a/con kit [compressor mount, etc]           $300
I purchased a VS insurance wreck & used g/box,brakes,computer,tunnel,diff etc.etc.             $3000
You will need an HR front end [or maybe struts??]
Probably a single piece tailshaft made up.
To comply with NSW rego. also a heater d/mister,hazzard lights,charcoal cannister.
Add to this a repaint ? &/or trim mods to suit trans tunnel.
As you can see even if you do all the work yourself [with an Engineer in tow] it would help if you were on good terms with your Bank Manager!!
The end result is spectacular,however it does not go all that differently to a 186 red motor properly tuned.
Anyhow get a quote from either CRS or V6Conversions & make an informed decision.
GOOD LUCK!   :)
CHEERS  OLD-BLU.

How about a different option altogether.    do a red motor conversion ( will be a fraction of the cost of a V6 conversion ), then Supercharge the beast.  Helluva lot cheaper.....great power......sounds like an old holden and not a commodore, goes like a stink without all the licensing hassles !

I was going to go this way myself, but funds were low, so I opted to replicate a worked XU1 red motor with triples and the whole shabang !

Supercharger kits can start from as low as $1800 for a used Jap unit, through to $5000 plus for a B&M style blower, but still cheaper than the V6 conversion !

confused yet ???

Good luck with whatever you decide and don;t forget to post some pics or ask someone to do it for you...would love to see the car and it's progress !

Cheers

Mark

Thanks to all (Old Blu, Mark, FEVan etc) for your excellent comments. I am leaning toward the Castlemaine option of a V6 but will investigare rebuilt reds.

Will keep you all in the loop.

Duncan
0418 350 220

;)

The Nissan RB-30 (VL motor) and the black motor that was in the last of the VKs with fuel injection etc are also both worth considering.  That RB-30 with the trimmings runs like hot snot - I've seen a few FCs with that conversion and it's pretty impressive performance per dollar.

But I agree with the others here that a red conversion is the best budget performance job you can do.  Bear in mind that an FE or FC is about the same weight as a Torana, and we all know how good they went with a hot red motor in them.

Hope that helps,
RET

Mark isn't hadfields doing a kit supercharger kit for red motors? Bolt on $1800, yep just check out the site, they are for red, black ,blue, rb30 and the V6. Try http://www.rodshop.com.au
Tumbles

Yes Tumbles, that's the 2nd hand Jap units I'm talking about.   Sure they do the job, but look a bit shit hanging off the wrong side of the motor and having a pipe over to the intake side.  Plus in an FC you have to cut into the drivers side of the subframe to make it fit.

I was very close to buying one of these, but found a good set of triple strombergs on an XU1 manifold complete for $300, and even after spending $500 servicing and cleaning them, I'm still over a grand better off, and probalby about the same performance !

Mark

VK injected black motor?

Cheaper than a V6 conversion.

Simpler than a supercharger/multi carb set up.

Shorter than a Nissan.

Smoother than a red

OR.......

If you are going to go to the effort to fit a V6, why not add a couple of cylinders and make it a 5.0L injected V8/auto conversion out of a VN-VP?

Happy to be corrected, but I understand everything you have to do for a V6 conversion you have to do for a V8...it's just a little more cosy in the engine bay. But with a proper exhaust note!

Regards

Ed

This is very interesting, how much better is a standard 202 compared to the original grey motor,
Sorry if this is a stupid question but i am on my L's regarding holdens.

Cheers
Dave

The 202 is about more than double the horse power of a grey and parts are more readily available and cheaper.
You could also use a blue or black motor.

Regards Seb
PS  Welcome aboard.

Thanks Seb.
As I have said I am on my "L's" regarding Holdens,
What is a black motor and a blue motor???
I know about 202's and 186's but not the others.


Cheers
Dave

Grey, Red, Black and Blue are the terms to classify the Holden 6 cyl motors as (funnily emough) they were generally painted that colour.
Grey's are the early style, Reds usually defined by their abundance of sizes and 9 port heads.
Blues and Blacks came later in the piece with 12 port heads and eventually EFI on the VK Commo(n)dore.

A bit more to add to Stinky's note:

The "blue" motor was in the VH Commodore, the "black" in the VK

In my opinion, the "black" was the worst of the lot.  It was gutless and thirsty (due to emmission control crap) and had a problem with valve guides and valve stem seals which meant it was an oil burner, particularly on start-up when it would puff a cloud of oil smoke.  I used to get only 16 mpg ( = 16 l/100km)  around town out of my 3.3l (202 ci) VK auto (carby, not EFI) and I'm a fairly gentle driver.

Martin

There's a few photos and details of an EK Station Sedan V6 conversion and Torana front end swap here - http://www.geocities.com/rawls57/

My two bobs worth! If you want to stick to a carby go with a mild 186 or 202 red fitted with EH sump and pickup. Nice easy conversion with the minimum amount of work. I am in the process of putting a red 202 and Toyota 4 speed in mine with HR disc front end. I also tossed up using the RB30 as I am building a rod with one but decided it was too much work re sump etc.

If you want to go with EFI unleaded buy a VK Commodore wreck or unreg with the original 202 EFI Black motor and use as much as you can from the car, computer, wiring etc. Forget the carby versions of the black motor and I was not that impressed with the blue one either, the EFI VK motor was the last and best of all the Holden straight sixes IMO and the cars are in the Trading Post cheap every week. Oh, you still need an EH sump and pickup for the black motor.

The V6 conversions are great if you can do much of the work yourself. If you have to pay someone else to do it forget it! You will end up spending more than you could buy a whole VT Commodore for!

But you'd have a much better car than a VT Commondoor!  ;)

I tried emailing the fellow who owns this car to ask him some questions but his email bounced. Does anyone know how to contact him?

not sure... maybe try the EK forum for him Jim??

or just post your questions here anyway and maybe somebody can help.

Cheers

Ed

You might be able to try - rawls@ekholden.com
if you haven't already, I used this one over a year ago so I'm not sure if it works.

hey guys just a short note CRS has gone to the dogs without rod half the people that used to work there don't anymore but ive heard that Lional West (rods right hand man and co driver) has gone out on his own and does just this, he is in cenral vic still and might be able to get a price to do a V6 swap if you want. also i have a VT for sale (see other stuff for sale)

Russ