FE-FC Holden Discussion Forum

Hey everyone.

My FC is losing charge to or from the battery.

Example: I can fully charge the battery, place it in the car, and it won't start. Whenever I turn the ignition off, the car won't start.

I may go for a drive (it's limited to up the street and back, due to its newfound unreliability), come home, turn the ignition off, it dies and won't start again. I'm confused and frustrated.

Tech:
Battery is almost new, alternator is a Lucas item, from memory it is from a Commodore(?)It has been reconditioned earlier this year. Motor is 192 red. battery is always bolted in, always make sure the leads are firm.
Battery is in the boot. Charged is shifted through the use of welding cable.

Has anybody had any problems such as this, and if so, what was it and what did you do?

Thanks

Josh (Ol Girl 58).

Josh,

Batteries in boots are always a problem unless you really concentrate on getting a perfect earth.

Check the battery earth a both ends. An earth cable should go from the battery in the boot to a CLEAN BARE METAL area of the car's chassis. An earth lead should also go from the chassis to the engine block. You should also run a second earth lead from the starter motor bolt to the chassis.

When your car is cranking it can draw around 200AMPS from the battery, any small resistance will mean that your cranking voltage will drop to below the minimum 9.6 Volts required. Even if the engine cranks slowly at this voltage the coil output will be affected, lowering the spark and causing difficult starting.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Craig.

Josh
   The battery in my FC is in the boot & I have the "earth lead" bolted straight to the support between the "wheel arch & parcel shelf" (can post a pic if that helps). The car starts every time.
   Also , have you had the battery checked out to make sure a Cell hasn't died.

  Norm  :)

I read some where not to use welding cable as battery cable because it is made of different materal or has a higher resistance not allowing current to flow properly.
Does the GEN light come ON before you start the engine?
If not the alternator won't charge.
With the engine running switch on the head lights and rev the engine. The lights should get brighter. This indicates the alternator is charging.(use voltmeter if you can get one)Charge rate should be about 14 volts at fast idle.
If battery is charged,turn ON headlights and crank engine.
If lights dim out and engine does'nt start, the battery is stuffed.
Or remove the vent caps on the battery(WEAR SAFETY GLASSES) and with some one cranking the engine, look at the cells(TAKING CARE NOT TO INHALE THE BATTERY GASES) if the cells bubble or fizz the battery is stuffed.
If using a volt meter the voltage should not drop below 9.50 volts while cranking.
Is there any drain from acc or lights when car is parked?
ie- boot light, radio.
Hope this helps.

Regards Seb

Thanks guys

Seb, the gen light is always on now, whenever I start the car. When I park the car, I disconnect the battery so that I don't drain charge.

When I had the alternator recoe'd the gen light went off. Only to come on again 2 days later.

Norm, I'd appreciate it if you could post a pic of your earth.

There is an earth that is bolted onto the left hand inner guard. There is another in the boot, bolted to the metal battery tray.

Not sure if this is relevant, although I'm concerned that charge is affecting the workings of my indicators: i.e. they aren't working. They were fine before the car started losing charge.  

cheers,

Josh

Josh,
If the gen lights on all the time it sounds like the regulator or alternator are the cause of the problem. If you take it back to the sparky that reconditoined it he should be able to identify the problem.
cheers,
Leigh

Josh,

Have a think about what your expecting the alternator to do. It probably is (or was) outputting voltage as its designed to do, especially if you've just had it replaced, but your expecting it to send it to a battery about 3 metres away.

The output regulator in the alternator is driving into the resistance of the welding cable and most likely getting hot in the process, maybe now its failed and that's why the light has come back on.

SEB is exactly right when he says you should look carefully at the type of cable you are using, and the quality of the connections. With so much current around, the smallest resistance will affect the performance of both starting and charging circuits.

Cheers,

Craig.

Indicators need a fully charged battery to work properly.
Are you sure that your battery is okay??? - check it with a volt-meter under load.

Thanks for your help guys,

However I have one question: I am not too technically minded, but what sort of cable should I be running? The car is as I purchased it.

Cheers,

Josh

Josh
Talk to your auto leaky, he will give you the good oil on cable size for battery in the boot, welding cable is a no no as it does develop high resistance as it gets older,when you have replaced these cables cut the insulation off the welding cable and you will find them full of a white powder substance which is what is causing your drama.
If you have access to a digital voltmeter measure the voltage at each end of the cable if any drop both off load and on load you are in trouble. Once again speak to the sparky who re cond the alternator.
Good Luck
John M

another old test is to belt alternator with a hammer fairly hard and if gen light goes off or dims a bit then its the brushes that are stuffed,but as you had it reco then thats doubtfull to be problem

i had exactly the same thing happen in my car. put an earth strap from the engine to the firewall, and it has never happened again. battery never goes flat and starts great

Hi Josh
   Here's a pic of my battery cable in the boot. It's not connected here , just sitting in the wheel well (goes better when it's hangin' off the battery  ;D ) but it's an ordinary battery earth cable and the positive (yellow one)is a good quality "auto" cable.

(http://photo.starblvd.net/normd/5-4-2.jpg)

Hope this helps

      Norm   :)

PS. just thought about this.   Maybe the battery carrier is corroded underneath and is not earthing to the body properly ? ? ?.

Josh
Have you tried another battery that you know starts a car. If all your cables and battery checks out OK. Then bench check your starter motor as a faulty starter will draw a lot of current and sound like a flat battery.

     Cheers Al

What size is the battery?
I would'nt be using anything less than a 440CCA if the battery is located in the boot.

Hey
Try this - start the car and disconnect the +ve terminal from the battery. If the car turns off you have a charging problem. If it stays on then it's an open circuit between the Battery and alternator bad earth etc and check the battery for voltage.
Don,t forget to check that the motor too is properly earthed.

CAUTION, don't disconnect battery lead with engine running. This can blow the diodes in the alternator.
If your charge light is always ON then you have a faulty diode causing the battery to discharge when it's not in use.

Seb

Seb,ive done this test many a time with no trouble,i think its more a problem with later model cars from the 90's till now.
reguards Nicko

Hi Josh
   Just wondering if you have been able to fix the battery problem.
    Also been able to fix the problem with Star Photo , for a while ? ? ?  Now you can SEE the pic.  ;D  
 
   Norm  :)

Hey guys,

Thank you for your replies.

Norm, I haven't been able to yet.  

I am deciding whether or not to move battery from the boot and back into the engine bay. What would be the best decision?

If in the engine bay, I would like to know where the best place is to mount it?

I would greatly appreciate a photo of a battery in an FC engine bay to give me a clearer picture. I now have a  (new) VB Commodore radiator, which takes up a great amount of space (length/width) up front, so mounting up there isn't an option.

Also, what do I mount the battery on?

Thanks,

Josh

There's no reason I can immediately think of (although not near a car to check) that the battery box can't be moved aft of it's original position with just a relocation of the bolt holes that hold the thing in place.

cheers
RET

Hey Guys,

It seems so long since this topic was started...Thanks for your replies. I'm still waiting for the local auto-electrician to book me in (seems he has a lot of customers in winter - or maybe he just doesn't like the nightmare that is a modified car's electrical system).

Anyway, the car hasn't moved since the last posting.

However, I am a little confused. Someone replied that welding cable should not be used in the car. However, on the weekend I went to a reputable speed shop and asked the guy running it (a former drag racer) who swears by welding cable and says it better than most. I'm confused?

Also: Just thought of this: My interior light is/has been disconnected. It does work when connected. Could this be the source of the power drain?

Regards,

Josh

i had the same problem with my fathers car
the battery is in the boot also, mounted in a battery box
the way it was explained to me the longer the leads the more charge you lose
you may also found that the cranking speed will speed up if leads are storter (for starting)
to fix the problem i picked up a 55amp alternater from the local wreackings and haven't had the same problem again.
hope this solves your problem works will if me

Josh
As to welding cable, we found as per previous reply that over time the wires develop a white powder within the rubber sheath and start  to get a high resistance (read voltage drop) along there length. This was from many years use in earthmoving gear landcruisers Holden etc in the mines. I could be wrong but most drag cars don’t do a lot of road miles and really don't get much use of the starter motor, like how often do you start the motor going down a quarter of a mile.
Any how you will find the correct battery cable your auto sparky will fit is much cheaper than the right size welding cable. But it is your car and your call. :)

Interior light on all the time will drain the battery overnight.
Good Luck
John M

i fitted a car alarm to my old FC and the flashing armed light for alarm would drain it enough to set off alarm in middle of the night,disconnected alarm after running around 3 times one night looking for thief ,replaced battery with new heavy duty battery and connected alarm again with no problems if i used car every day,if left for more than 4 days without starting car and alarm would go off again
reguards Nick

Hey guys.

Just wanted to share a note of thanks to those who shared their ideas.

Three long days at the auto electrician and the FC is now running beautifully  8), and holding it's charge.  ;D

It was a combination of a dud battery, a 'live' dead wire and as well as wires from the nitrous still being live (it's been disconnected ::), and rubbing on the bonnet hinge.

A new globe in the front left indicator bezel is staying put.

P.S. A bit if a 'learn as you go' story... I didn't know that if a globe is missing from the indicator, the dash indicator lights fowl as well.

P.P.S. Fitted quartz halogen headlights, another 'learn as you go'. Not as hard (or as simple) as it looks.  ;)

Thanks once again.

Josh